Elite Riot Armor, Joshua's or Armor of the 87th Tribe?

[Surf Solar]

Yes, but such uniforms/armors were made to make the wearer stand out, to make him look, eh, I don't know the english word, "glorious", full of honour etc.. While this piece we have here makes everyone look like a fucking idiot. I'd also like to see such uniforms you described in neon colors which are an eyesore.

 

[DevilTakeMe]

I don't really see the problem. Lots of militaries in history have had uniforms with vivid colours for soldiers not deployed on the frontline.

It's something that bugs people because it's a bright fluorescent color on fielded armor. Even the heavy armor troops aren't quite that garishly colored. Notice that the NCR wears dirt brown uniforms for the most part.

It's the same thing that bugs us about 1st recon wearing a bright red beret out in a warzone. "We are not camouflaged. Shoot us here."

In history, uniforms like that basically make you a target, which is why modern militaries don't wear vivid colors into the field.

It works for Caesar's Legion because they're reactionary and going back to the days of bright plumage on armor.

 

[Tagaziel]

So? The Sierra power armor is quite obviously not a frontline suit of armor, it's fielded in NCR territory, far away from the Mojave. As such, aesthetics > functionality.

You haven't even seen it in the game proper.

 

[DoubleRubix]

I'm talking about armor that gives critical chance o.o not really hats but armor.

 

[Courier]

One thing I don't really like about the 87th Tribe Armor or Scorched Sierra Power Armor is that if you're with Caesar, you have to nuke the CL camp to get the 87th Tribe Armor and vice versa for the NCR. Which makes actual complete 100% rational sense, I know, but I still wish there was another way to (legally; meaning no console commands involved) obtain it. If I'm with NCR and I nuke the CL camp I'm not gonna want to wear their Legate Lanius' armor lookalike.

I think it's supposed to be more like a trophy, like how Romans took the names of places they had conquered (such as "Scipio Africanus").

 

[DevilTakeMe]

So? The Sierra power armor is quite obviously not a frontline suit of armor, it's fielded in NCR territory, far away from the Mojave. As such, aesthetics > functionality.

You haven't even seen it in the game proper.

Like being away from the Mojave means that the NCR lets their military slack off. These are the guys who keep their best-trained, best-equipped troops at home to defend cattle from raiders. Letting their best soldiers decorate their armor with frilly colors while a war is going on is not good for their Public Relations image.

As it's been said several times throughout New Vegas, the heavy troopers and veteran rangers are back in the Core region, and they certainly don't look like they decorate their armor with bright colors, now do they?

Again, functionality is more important than aesthetics to the NCR. Aesthetics are more important than functionality to Caesar's Legion.

 

[Tagaziel]

Like being away from the Mojave means that the NCR lets their military slack off. These are the guys who keep their best-trained, best-equipped troops at home to defend cattle from raiders. Letting their best soldiers decorate their armor with frilly colors while a war is going on is not good for their Public Relations image.

The NCR isn't concerned with PR nor is its military.

As it's been said several times throughout New Vegas, the heavy troopers and veteran rangers are back in the Core region, and they certainly don't look like they decorate their armor with bright colors, now do they?

Wrong. NCR Rangers are being shipped from the desolate wastelands of Baja to the Mojave, from an actual combat zone. Heavy troopers are the only ones coming from the Core Region and surprise, they're the ones with a large yellow bear painted on the chestpiece and red stripes on the arms.

You seem to be forgetting that power armor is a tank. In fact, painting it in bright colours is a good idea, as it draws fire away from the more vulnerable, far less armoured NCR troops.

Again, functionality is more important than aesthetics to the NCR. Aesthetics are more important than functionality to Caesar's Legion.

Which doesn't preclude a Colonel from having a personal, heavily modified suit of armour.

 

[DevilTakeMe]

Like being away from the Mojave means that the NCR lets their military slack off. These are the guys who keep their best-trained, best-equipped troops at home to defend cattle from raiders. Letting their best soldiers decorate their armor with frilly colors while a war is going on is not good for their Public Relations image.

The NCR isn't concerned with PR nor is its military.

Yes they are. Kimball is particularly concerned with PR, hence his visit to Hoover Dam as a publicity stunt.

As it's been said several times throughout New Vegas, the heavy troopers and veteran rangers are back in the Core region, and they certainly don't look like they decorate their armor with bright colors, now do they?

Wrong. NCR Rangers are being shipped from the desolate wastelands of Baja to the Mojave, from an actual combat zone. Heavy troopers are the only ones coming from the Core Region and surprise, they're the ones with a large yellow bear painted on the chestpiece and red stripes on the arms.

Yeah, you're not paying attention. The Veteran Rangers from Baja... where they were chasing down raiders, who are pumped up to be a real threat, but aren't. Hanlon describes the Baja situation as "chasing ghosts."

You seem to be forgetting that power armor is a tank. In fact, painting it in bright colours is a good idea, as it draws fire away from the more vulnerable, far less armoured NCR troops.

It's a misconception that tanks are there to divert fire from infantry. No, they are there to provide heavy firepower - the armor is to protect the crew from fire while they open up with heavy weapons or artillery, both as support or in a major assault.

Hell, a large number of tank tactics involve -camouflaging- the tank to try and keep them out of the line of fire.

Something the Brotherhood of Steel had to learn the hard way.

Power armored soldiers, or tanks, as you refer to them, do nothing to divert fire on the unarmored infantry.

Again, functionality is more important than aesthetics to the NCR. Aesthetics are more important than functionality to Caesar's Legion.

Which doesn't preclude a Colonel from having a personal, heavily modified suit of armour.

That makes him a target within striking distance of a warzone. Should the NCR fall in the Mojave, it will end up being Royez's duty to protect a retreat or defend against an invasion, and with your logic, that means wearing bright colors to make him stand out even more in his power armor.

 

[Tagaziel]

Yes they are. Kimball is particularly concerned with PR, hence his visit to Hoover Dam as a publicity stunt.

What? The only purpose of Kimball's visit at the Dam is to bolster morale; nothing more.

Yeah, you're not paying attention. The Veteran Rangers from Baja... where they were chasing down raiders, who are pumped up to be a real threat, but aren't. Hanlon describes the Baja situation as "chasing ghosts."

No one knows what actually happened in Baja. Even JE Sawyer refused to reveal what happened there, so you claiming to know better than the game's lead developer is... yeah.

It's a misconception that tanks are there to divert fire from infantry. No, they are there to provide heavy firepower - the armor is to protect the crew from fire while they open up with heavy weapons or artillery, both as support or in a major assault.

Hell, a large number of tank tactics involve -camouflaging- the tank to try and keep them out of the line of fire.

Something the Brotherhood of Steel had to learn the hard way.

Power armored soldiers, or tanks, as you refer to them, do nothing to divert fire on the unarmored infantry.

How about you go read about Fallout's setting, ok? What you're writing is true for for our world. Fallout is a relatively low tech setting, where power armour's purpose is not to run and hide, but to go out there, draw fire and get shit done.

The entire point of power armour is that it's a walking tank. Remember the Anchorage campaign? The T-45d suits were so effective because they could soak up immense damage while dealing damage to the enemy. They were, quote, able to destroy entire towns without endangering the wearer, unquote.

That makes him a target within striking distance of a warzone. Should the NCR fall in the Mojave, it will end up being Royez's duty to protect a retreat or defend against an invasion, and with your logic, that means wearing bright colors to make him stand out even more in his power armor.

Power armor is generally a priority target, so either way he's going to stand out. Also, how many times do I have to repeat that power armor is nigh invulnerable against small arms (gameplay/story segregation)?

 

[DevilTakeMe]

Yes they are. Kimball is particularly concerned with PR, hence his visit to Hoover Dam as a publicity stunt.

What? The only purpose of Kimball's visit at the Dam is to bolster morale; nothing more.

Do you understand what a PR stunt is? It's supposed to bolster public support and morale.

Kimball clearly is reading a script, and after his speech, he gives us this little gem: "Okay, let's get the fuck out of here. What the hell are you waiting for – do you think I want to get shot? Let's go."

It's a public relations stunt.

And then you missed all the talk from various NPCs that the Mojave War is not popular at home inside the NCR? There are actually NPCs found in the game that say this.

Mr. House's plan is in fact to pin all the blame on Kimball and Oliver, because of the unpopular foreign war will cause the NCR to change their attitude towards New Vegas.

Then, there's the bad NCR endings, which only serve to reiterate how delicate the NCR political situations are.

Yeah, you're not paying attention. The Veteran Rangers from Baja... where they were chasing down raiders, who are pumped up to be a real threat, but aren't. Hanlon describes the Baja situation as "chasing ghosts."

No one knows what actually happened in Baja. Even JE Sawyer refused to reveal what happened there, so you claiming to know better than the game's lead developer is... yeah.

I just told you what we're presented in-game. The Baja situation is not a real combat zone, according the guy in charge of the Rangers - Chief Hanlon, the NPC voiced by Kris Kristofferson. This is the same guy who bailed the NCR out of a bad situation at the First Battle of Hoover Dam. He even tells you a story about the Baja should you ask him - he was there.

Who better to give you perspective? How is that not Sawyer or anyone who wrote the dialogue for this game not saying something about that situation? Sawyer doesn't need to tell you exactly what's going on in the Baja, because he's already done so.

It's a misconception that tanks are there to divert fire from infantry. No, they are there to provide heavy firepower - the armor is to protect the crew from fire while they open up with heavy weapons or artillery, both as support or in a major assault.

Hell, a large number of tank tactics involve -camouflaging- the tank to try and keep them out of the line of fire.

Something the Brotherhood of Steel had to learn the hard way.

Power armored soldiers, or tanks, as you refer to them, do nothing to divert fire on the unarmored infantry.

How about you go read about Fallout's setting, ok? What you're writing is true for for our world. Fallout is a relatively low tech setting, where power armour's purpose is not to run and hide, but to go out there, draw fire and get shit done.

The entire point of power armour is that it's a walking tank. Remember the Anchorage campaign? The T-45d suits were so effective because they could soak up immense damage while dealing damage to the enemy. They were, quote, able to destroy entire towns without endangering the wearer, unquote.

Don't forget there are actual tanks in Anchorage, not just power armor.

It should also be noted that the same "quotes" also mention that the Anchorage campaign depicted in Operation Anchorage are written by the general in charge, who kept changing "history" (the simulation in particular) until it was completely divorced from reality. Even the aforementioned tanks aren't certain to have actually been there.

General Chase did push for power armor into the field, and they did turn the tide of the Invasion in favor of the US. But it's pretty much stated that Chase overstated their effectiveness.

So, no, you can't take those "quotes" at face value. More on power armor being "nigh invulnerable" below.

That makes him a target within striking distance of a warzone. Should the NCR fall in the Mojave, it will end up being Royez's duty to protect a retreat or defend against an invasion, and with your logic, that means wearing bright colors to make him stand out even more in his power armor.

Power armor is generally a priority target, so either way he's going to stand out. Also, how many times do I have to repeat that power armor is nigh invulnerable against small arms (gameplay/story segregation)?

Oh really?

I'm going to continue pointing out that the Brotherhood of Steel thought they were invincible because of that "nigh invulnerability" - maybe you ought to practice what you preach and actually -read- about the setting.

It's not enough that you fail to note how many Brotherhood Paladins think that because they have T-45d and T-51b power armor, that they're invincible. Yet we have bodies of them strewn around the Mojave, in their power armor.

T-51b is what they were wearing in Anchorage, and that's even more advanced than the T-45d you are hyping up from earlier. And look where that got the Brotherhood, who are wearing this armor.

It's bad enough that you're already failing to remember the Brotherhood-NCR war, where the Brotherhood thought that because they had superior technology and power armor, they would win.

They didn't.

Operation Sunburst is precisely what this kind of thinking gets you. Yes, this kind of power armor gives you an advantage, but it doesn't make you invincible.

The fact that Helios-One is mostly intact, save for one collapsed floor ought to show you that there wasn't artillery fired on the place, unlike on those two paladins who tried to get near Nellis.

Power Armor and advanced technology are not automatic "I Win" buttons. The Enclave thought they were better than the NCR (they're even -more- advanced), the Brotherhood thought they were better than the NCR. And they both lost. Why? Because they relied on power armor to protect them.

Who better to know that Power Armor does not make you invincible than -everyone- in the NCR?

That's not just gameplay and story segregation, that actually -is- part of the story.

 

[Hassknecht]

The Chimera was a chinese tank, to be fair, they don't have power armor.
Enclave and BoS lost not because their power armor was not good enough, they lost because they lacked the resources to maintain their high level of technology.
The Enclave lost their main base, they were splintered groups without support.
The BoS were always very few, and they had no production facilities.
And the NCR? They had way superior numbers both on the frontlines and the supportlines. It was inevitable that they won, they could just starve them out.
Power armor in fact does make you nigh invincible.
At least it did before Fallout 3, when it got nerfed for gameplay-reasons.
In the story, though, not the armor failed. The support failed.

 

[DevilTakeMe]

Power armor in fact does make you nigh invincible.
At least it did before Fallout 3, when it got nerfed for gameplay-reasons.

It never got nerfed. There are two different kinds of T-51b in Fallout 3.

The regular T-51b (the green one) has some strong stats, but has a a more modest amount of hit points (2,000), when compared to the Winterized one.

The winterized T-51b (the white one) you get from Operation Anchorage is the "virtual" set that the NPCs are running around in the simulation with. It's "invincible" because it has 10 million hit points, when it was intended to have 1,000 (this version remains in the game files) when you get it after the simulation.

So no, anyone believing that power armor makes you invincible is literally -not- following gameplay and story segregation.

It makes you difficult to kill, but not invincible. If it made you invincible, they wouldn't be trying to make new armor (see: Enclave power armor, hardened power armor, etc. etc. etc.).

Like tanks that they're being compared to, they are very difficult to overcome, but not impossible.

 

[Courier]

It never got nerfed. There are two different kinds of T-51b in Fallout 3.

If I can kill a guy wearing power armor with a 10mm pistol then yeah, it got nerfed.

 

[DevilTakeMe]

It never got nerfed. There are two different kinds of T-51b in Fallout 3.

If I can kill a guy wearing power armor with a 10mm pistol then yeah, it got nerfed.

That's just Fallout 3. They used Damage Resistance without the Damage Threshold.

I guess that's a nerf in its own way. Fair enough.

But again, that kind of just goes to show you that power armor doesn't make anyone invincible.

If we have to go back to Fallout 1 and 2, I can just point out that the Glow contains an incident where four guys in Power Armor died thinking their armor was completely invulnerable. One guy was immediately shredded to ribbons by West Tek robots, while the suits of the other three were damaged to the point their air filters failed and they died of radiation poisoning.

 

[OakTable]

It never got nerfed. There are two different kinds of T-51b in Fallout 3.

If I can kill a guy wearing power armor with a 10mm pistol then yeah, it got nerfed.

That's just Fallout 3. They used Damage Resistance without the Damage Threshold.

I guess that's a nerf in its own way. Fair enough.

But again, that kind of just goes to show you that power armor doesn't make anyone invincible.

If we have to go back to Fallout 1 and 2, I can just point out that the Glow contains an incident where four guys in Power Armor died thinking their armor was completely invulnerable. One guy was immediately shredded to ribbons by West Tek robots, while the suits of the other three were damaged to the point their air filters failed and they died of radiation poisoning.

And in a more recent example, the Mojave BoS chapter sent 2 dudes in gleaming white power armor to scout Boomer territory. Unfortunately, power armor does not protect against 155mm shells.

 

[Wintermind]

FO:NV still deals some damage through even if you can't negat eit's DT or DR. Seriously, wear some power armor, ad let some powder gangers take shos at you with their 9mm pistol. Won't penetrate your armor but you'll die.

 

[DevilTakeMe]

It never got nerfed. There are two different kinds of T-51b in Fallout 3.

If I can kill a guy wearing power armor with a 10mm pistol then yeah, it got nerfed.

That's just Fallout 3. They used Damage Resistance without the Damage Threshold.

I guess that's a nerf in its own way. Fair enough.

But again, that kind of just goes to show you that power armor doesn't make anyone invincible.

If we have to go back to Fallout 1 and 2, I can just point out that the Glow contains an incident where four guys in Power Armor died thinking their armor was completely invulnerable. One guy was immediately shredded to ribbons by West Tek robots, while the suits of the other three were damaged to the point their air filters failed and they died of radiation poisoning.

And in a more recent example, the Mojave BoS chapter sent 2 dudes in gleaming white power armor to scout Boomer territory. Unfortunately, power armor does not protect against 155mm shells.

The guys in the REPCONN building near New Vegas have to suffer the indignity of being defeated by a piece of collapsed ceiling and some robots.

The other two near Black Mountain are killed by centaurs - whose attacks are spitting globs of radioactive snot at you, or... tongue-whipping you to death.

 

[Ilosar]

Power Armor seems to go the way of (to give one example) Space Marines in 40K fluff. It can be near-invincible or barely worth the time, depending on the current plot/game. In FO1 it's almost invincible save against the highest tier of weapons. In Fallout 2 and Tactics less so because powerful weapons are more common, but it's a clear upgrade over normal armor. In FO3, it's near useless and a 19 years old Vault Dweller with an AK47 ripoff can kill a squad of trained soldiers with PAs and advanced weaponry In NV, yay, we got DT back! Oh, but it's too low to protect adequately against anything but low-tier equipment, and the armor slows you to a crawl to boot, AND you need to do one of two long side-quests to be able to wear it. About 50% of weapons do more than the highest possible DT given by PA IIRC, DLC weapons not even counting. I had to fix the PA in New Vegas so that even t-45d was immune to most weapons (that shit won wars, yo) and the higher tiers are impervious to anything but Anti-Materiel Rifles, 45-70 AP rounds, Pulse weapons, Missiles or Deathclaws. Yes it's overpowered (yes, yes, pun, move on), but I worked for that husk of metal, it better protect me adequately.

As for the OP? Joshua Graham's, for sure. Looks great, pretty high DT, looks great, good bonuses, was worn by the single most badass person in Fallout canon (which is truly saying something), and I did mention it looks great. Elite Riot Gear is really nifty too, but if I am going to be slowed down I will put on my PA.

 

[Surf Solar]

Some guys seem to forget that it's still a game, an abstraction from "reality" (or in this case the lore) we are playing. Would you prefer a game where you have to spend 10 minutes to tear down a single (wo)man in a power armor? Or, would you like to have basically a cheat which makes you almost invincible after putting on such a suit? I know I wouldn't, that's why I'm fine with the decisions they made regarding the power armor. Even in FO1 it wasn't that much of a big deal, you could still get killed by lucky shots, even from a fucking flare thrown to your head. Fallout 2's power armors weren't godmode either and were quickly torn down by appropriate equipment, or lucky shots from "weaker" guns.

And for the discussion about that Sierra armor abomination - ofcourse one can say "yes it's for decoration, because he is behind the lines and blablabla" - it doesn't change the fact that it is aesthetically unpleasing as shit, with no sense of color composition whatsoever. If I wouldn't know better, I would think it's just one of the thousand inane mods one can find over the interwebz.

 

[Lexx]

It would be ok-looking if the plain green and red colors wouldn't be there. I still wouldn't use it of course, as it's based on the fugly Fo3 armor and I just hate that gramophone shoulder pads. :>