Tagaziel said:
Kimball went to bolster the morale of troops in the Mojave, not to score bonus points with the citizens at home. The NCR war fought in the Mojave is unpopular in the NCR in the way Afghanistan and Iraq are unpopular nowadays, it's perceived as a needless waste of money, lives and ordnance. In fact, Kimball's appearance that's supposed to bolster troop morale, thus prolong their presence in the Mojave is actually more damaging to his popularity, since it reinforces his administrations stance that troops need to stay in the Mojave.
Right, it's a PR stunt. Whether you rationalize it as boosting troop morale, raising awareness for the continued need to be there at the Dam, his speech and his awarding a soldier a medal, it is there to create a public image. The story is out even before Kimball shows up, as people who won't even be there are talking about it.
If you're going to compare it to Iraq and Afghanistan, none other than George Bush himself popped up on Thanksgiving to give a short speech to the troops, all the under the guise of boosting morale to the troops. He also made sure there were cameras there to tell the story.
Mr. House's plan is in fact to pin all the blame on Kimball and Oliver, because of the unpopular foreign war will cause the NCR to change their attitude towards New Vegas.
Actually, House's plan is to kick the NCR military out of the Mojave, but keep its citizens coming, as they are Vegas' lifeline. He doesn't give a damn about Kimball or Oliver, they are only relevant as long as they are in a position where their death or survival would hurt his own economic interests.
His -plan- is to pin all the blame on Kimball and Oliver - whether that plan succeeds is up to the Courier.
Hanlon mentioned only that the Rangers are chasing ghosts - nothing more. These ghosts can be rogue Enclave units, still fighting a long lost war, Deathclaws, senile Nightkin, super raiders etc. Fact is, the game does not give any concrete information about what exactly is going on in Baja. Even Hanlon's story is several years old and has nothing to do with the current state of affairs.
Thus, you claiming to see facts where there are none is... yeah.
"Chasing ghosts" - an old expression that means looking for something that isn't there. What else do we need to say?
Or are you going to contradict yourself by saying that means it's a full on combat zone, when we don't have any evidence of that aside from casual conversation, while a more prominent NPC is saying otherwise?
Of course, you can believe what you will.
Don't forget there are actual
tanks in Anchorage, not just power armor.
It should also be noted that the same "quotes" also mention that the Anchorage campaign depicted in Operation Anchorage are written by the general in charge, who kept changing "history" (the simulation in particular) until it was completely divorced from reality. Even the aforementioned tanks aren't certain to have actually been there.
If VSS's programmers implementing the situation flat out state that Chase's addition are pure fantasy and the simulation is clearly divorced from reality, then the vision presented in it cannot be taken as a reliable source.
But then, you repeat what's in the Fallout Timeline and say that power armor is incredibly effective against Chinese
tanks and infantry.
So, thanks to Bethesda, we have to take even the presence of tanks in Anchorage at face value. You can thank them for inserting an element of doubt now.
General Chase did push for power armor into the field, and they did turn the tide of the Invasion in favor of the US. But it's pretty much stated that Chase overstated their effectiveness.
Where is it ever said that he pushed for its deployment?
Because he's the one who deployed them in the Anchorage campaign? He was the Commanding Officer at that time.
This is further reinforced by
power armor specifications given in the original Fallout, which flat out state that the T-51b powered infantry armour, which sports a poly-laminate shell, can absorb over 2,500 joules of kinetic impact. Given that it's stated above that the first versions of the suit were incredibly effective against Chinese tanks and infantry and that later versions literally carved a swath through the Red menace, it's a very logical conclusion that the T-45d gives similiar protection to the T-51b, or marginally less effective one.
But I'm digressing. 2,500 joules (or 2.5k j) is a lot.
It -is- a lot. It's a bit higher than modern interceptor vests, But unfortunately, not by a whole lot. Unfortunately, it's also a vague number.
If you're going to go to semantics and numbers, power armor "can" absorb up to 2,500 joules. That says to me that it's not as tough as we want to make it out to be, or that under ideal conditions the armor can handle that much energy.
If you're going to start throwing numbers around, 2,500 j of kinetic energy is actually not a lot of protection, considering that any rating regarding stopping a bullet is what it has been tested to stop, rather than what it is guaranteed to stop.
Standard 5.56mm and 5mm ammunition (basic ammo of the Chinese military and the NCR Army) delivers about 1,800 joules of kinetic energy of impact, far below the safety threshold for the T-51b power armor. Only .308 (7.62mm NATO) with 4,000 j, .45-70 Government with 3,500 j and .50 BMG with nearly 12,500 j.
Pistol rounds are even worse. 9mm at best hits with 700 j, similiar to .45 ACP. .357 ammo is about 900 j. 10mm is a slight improvement, but still just about 1000 j. Even the top tier 12.7mm round (300gr FMJ) is about 1,600 j of kinetic impact. .44 Magnum is similiar, with about 1,600 j, 2,000 if loaded with 340 gr and +P.
Your average .45 ACP would also be about 600 j, too. That's not a big issue.
Modern military vests are designed to stop 7.62x39mm AK-47 rounds (which are around 2,000 joules), so a tolerance of a little higher than that is okay.
Vests used in law enforcement are tested to stop 124-gr 9mm rounds (roughly a little higher than 500 j) - the added notation is that a higher velocity needs to be reached in order for the round to have more than a 50% chance of penetrating through the armor.
That doesn't mean that the armor is absolutely certain to withstand that energy. Just that, under normal circumstances, with minimal deformation/fragmentation, that power armor can withstand and even completely deflect kinetic energy is about 2,500 joules.
Other factors pile on top of this as well - bullet hardness, mass, fragmentation/deformation, etc. etc.
We're not given more details about the power armor to make a conclusive statement. That kevlar stuff, for instance, resists 500 j of kinetic energy from a bullet to penetrate, but only needs under 50 j of energy to be penetrated by a knife.
I would -hope- that's not an issue with power armor.
Shotguns are a mixed bag. While 12 gauge shotgun slugs can deliver up to 4,000 joules of kinetic energy upon impact, they're useless at long ranges.
Explosives are a different matter entirely, but tanks don't take explosives well either.
These figures indicate that in most conditions, standard service rifles of the NCR and Chinese assault rifles of the PLA can't penetrate T-51b armor plating, making it pretty much invulnerable in combat against small arms (which most factions outside the Brotherhood are equipped with). Thus, my point stands, that the T-51b is pretty much an "I win" button in most situations. Unless the enemy comes equipped with dedicated armour piercing weapons, but that's why you have the T-51b's mobility.
What this actually indicates is that the chances of those 5.56mm rifles used by Chinese and NCR forces of penetrating the armor rapidly gets smaller, but does not disappear within the context of the armor's rated protection.
And we already know the difference in ballistics between a 5.56mm Nato and it's 7.62x39mm counterpart. The 5.56mm has less chance of penetration, but it still has a chance (I wouldn't say it had more than a 5% chance or so of causing damage, however).
It lends more credence to later Fallout installments, as well as earlier ones. As Operation Sunburst notes, 2000 NCR assault troops took on a force of 150 or so brotherhood members (many of them in this invulnerable T-51b and T-45d), and won.
The other factor is that power armor is also designed to deflect energy weapons as well as ballistics/kinetic weapons. That may also affect it's pure kinetic performance. Afterall, it mentions kinetic energy, but we're not told about it's performance against resisting thermal or electrical energy.
"But energy is energy!" No, it's not.
We can compare it to real world armors like chobham tank armor which is designed to defend against impact as well as high heat in explosives. Add to whatever materials required to dissipate energy attack and you wind up with a picture of armor that reduces ballistics resistance a little to maintain it's defense against energy and plasma and radiation, while still maintaining "mobility."
But then that's a touch of speculation, we digress.
Simply put. Painting targets with bright colors is essentially saying "hey, you with the heavy weapons, target me." Again, that's why tanks are also use camouflage, so they are -not- in the line of fire. From other tanks, from anti-tank weapons from infantry and aerial platforms.
But no, you are reliant on circumstantial combat conditions where all people (regardless of training) fire on the fluorescent pink and green metal thing rather than killing the enemy they were trained to kill.
Suppose you are right, and people fire on the power armored troops rather than the unarmored ones. Are they hiding behind the "walking tanks?" Or are they standing way back behind them, not helping in the assault? Reality of combat with firearms also adds in things like ricochet. Does power armor stop every bullet dead? Or do they deflect them like heavy tank armor?
Are they clustered, using the walking tank as cover? You know as well as I do that's a horrible idea. Grenades, explosives, whatever. Even worse, when you factor in that the "walking tank" doesn't cover nearly enough space to deflect explosives from anyone nearby (unless they jump on the grenade).
-edit: stupid doubleposts
