Emil speaks on Fallout 3 combat, armor and more.

[Per]

In a thread on aiming and accuracy on the BGSF, Fo3 lead designer Emil Pagliarulo dropped in to say the following:<blockquote>For us, balancing the combat is very much a "feel" thing. It's something that takes a ton of playtesting (involving the entire dev team), and determining what feels right for everyone. It's all about finding that nebulous perfect balance between player skill and character skill.

In run-and-gun, melee feels a lot like melee in Oblivion. If you connect with the weapon, you hit. There's no die roll to determine that. But your character's skill, as well as the condition of the weapon, determine the damage done.

In run-and-gun, ranged combat is... I dunno. I'd say it feels a lot like Deus Ex 1. Accuracy is affected by player skill and weapon condition -- so if you've got, say, a really high Small Guns skill and a perfect condition assault rifle, your aim will be dead on. Low Small Guns and crappy assault rifle, and you'll miss more. The skill and condition also affect the damage you'll do.

With most ranged weapons in run-and-gun, you can also go into an aim mode, which zooms you in and increases your accuracy. With Melee and Unarmed weapons, the player will block instead of zooming in.

Based on all the feedback we've gotten, it feels really solid now.

Of course, V.A.T.S. is its own story completely...

I'd say for combat, I generally go 70% V.A.T.S., 30% run-and-gun (but that's different for everyone, really).</blockquote>He follows up to say that for someone with a less than stellar hand-eye coordination, "V.A.T.S. is definitely going to be the way to go."

Also, a few words on armor.<blockquote>I know it's been mentioned in some preview or other that all the apparel (armor and clothing) is a single suit. Headgear is separate. There are a LOT of apparel options, and yes, there are are some pieces of clothing that give stat boosts, so if you decide to wear clothing and not armor, you'll still get a discernible gameplay benefit.

I've seen some apparel/headgear combinations I never would have imagined (some which involve a big pre-war lady's sunhat...) </blockquote>And finally he also talks about level scaling, which contains little new material other than the blessed words of "no Raiders in Power Armor".

 

[Pope Viper]

Re: Emil speaks on Fallout 3 combat

In a thread on aiming and accuracy on the BGSF, Fo3 lead designer Emil Pagliarulo dropped in to say the following:<blockquote>For us, balancing the combat is very much a "feel" thing. It's something that takes a ton of playtesting (involving the entire dev team), and determining what feels right for everyone. It's all about finding that nebulous perfect balance between player skill and character skill.

In run-and-gun, melee feels a lot like melee in Oblivion. If you connect with the weapon, you hit. There's no die roll to determine that. But your character's skill, as well as the condition of the weapon, determine the damage done.

In run-and-gun, ranged combat is... I dunno. I'd say it feels a lot like Deus Ex 1. Accuracy is affected by player skill and weapon condition -- so if you've got, say, a really high Small Guns skill and a perfect condition assault rifle, your aim will be dead on. Low Small Guns and crappy assault rifle, and you'll miss more. The skill and condition also affect the damage you'll do.

With most ranged weapons in run-and-gun, you can also go into an aim mode, which zooms you in and increases your accuracy. With Melee and Unarmed weapons, the player will block instead of zooming in.

Based on all the feedback we've gotten, it feels really solid now.

Of course, V.A.T.S. is its own story completely...

I'd say for combat, I generally go 70% V.A.T.S., 30% run-and-gun (but that's different for everyone, really).</blockquote>He follows up to say that for someone with a less than stellar hand-eye coordination, "V.A.T.S. is definitely going to be the way to go."

Lovely, more proof that this is simply a console game.

 

[Black]

In run-and-gun, melee feels a lot like melee in Oblivion.

In run-and-gun, ranged combat is... I dunno.

Pure gold. Thanks Emil!

 

[whirlingdervish]

Re: Emil speaks on Fallout 3 combat

Based on all the feedback we've gotten, it feels really solid now.

Who did they get this feedback from?

Oh yeah, the playtesting team which consists of the devs working on the game.

No wonder the feedback is positive! I wouldn't spend more than a year creating and fine-tuning something at work, and then go tell my boss that it sucks, and that by extension I am incompetent.


And the melee combat.. sheesh.
Where's the balance in every single blow hitting the target regardless of your CHARACTER's SKILL?

That would be like by saying that NPCs will believe every lie you tell them, but they won't be as swayed to assist you in your quests depending on your speech skill.

They've managed to "balance" away the meaningful effects of choosing where you put your skill points, from almost every angle.
(melee, ranged combat, hacking minigames to replace science/repair, percentage points showing for speech choices, etc..)

 

[Seymour the spore plant]

It's all about finding that nebulous perfect balance between player skill and character skill.

Well, good luck with that, Emil. I think you're in for one hell of a wild-goose chase.

If VATS is, as you say, the way to go for anyone who's not adept at first-person shooters, you've already got a huge balance issue, since they'll need a lot of Agility, which so far looks like quite the dump stat for everyone else. Plus, how to account for that small margin of error that is always present in character skill (the 5% to miss that I'm assuming is in on VATS) when dealing with real-time combat reliant on player skill? It seems like another penalty, even if a small one, for anyone willing to go the non-twitch route.

By the way, here's some more info from Emil which I believe is new.

 

[Pope Viper]

I've seen some apparel/headgear combinations I never would have imagined (some which involve a big pre-war lady's sunhat...)

Oh fer Chrissake.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Good to hear everything will be allright.

 

[Brother None]

Re: Emil speaks on Fallout 3 combat

Oh yeah, the playtesting team which consists of the devs working on the game.

Eh?

QA does not consist of designers, y'know.

Also, bang!, there goes yet another BGSF Q&A question. By now over half of those questions have been answered.

 

[whirlingdervish]

Re: Emil speaks on Fallout 3 combat

For us, balancing the combat is very much a "feel" thing. It's something that takes a ton of playtesting (involving the entire dev team) , and determining what feels right for everyone.

I must be seeing things.


Feedback shouldn't just be your own employees regurgitating what you want to hear, and yes-men make very poor game testers.

I can't see any one of the designers looking at the combat from the perspective of a person who is buying the game and has no preconceived notion of how it works or if it feels practicle, and that's what testers should be.
They need to be blank slates to reflect only what is written on them by their experience with the game otherwise you get feedback that isn't necessarily indicative of the game.

These are some of the same people who are working on shoehorning a 100 pounds of bullshit into a 10 lbs box, by choice.

They know how they want it to work and are pushing in that direction with every little fix, and I can't imagine anyone saying "wow, no matter what we do this combat system feels very unbalanced" even if they came to that point and realized it, because it would be their own initial design decisions that caused it.

They'll never have a tester say: "maybe we should only put 10 pounds of bullshit in this box, because the extra 90 that they tried in the first place is screwing the whole thing up"

In addition, having the higher-ups in the company looking over the shoulder of the full time testing crew could have a negative effect on their ability to express their own impressions of the game.

 

[Brother None]

Re: Emil speaks on Fallout 3 combat

I must be seeing things.

Did you ever hear of "a cow is a bovine but a bovine is not a cow"?

Same thing. The playtesting team contains the dev team, but does not consist of the dev team.

 

[Makagulfazel]

There are a LOT of apparel options, and yes, there are are some pieces of clothing that give stat boosts, so if you decide to wear clothing and not armor, you'll still get a discernible gameplay benefit.

.... I hope they don't mean random +stat bonuses for "magical" items.

But I bet that's exactly what he means. Fucking retards. I wonder if power armor with still give the +3 strength (Because it's logical, unlike some shit shirt that gives +3 endurance because it's the "shirt of the bull")

EDIT:
Watch them let you wear "magical" clothing under your armor. A 23 intelligence character? Fuck YEAAAARRRHHH!

 

[Anani Masu]

You guys say "I bet" with so much ridiculous shit I really need to start calling em. If I got even one dollar each time I could retire. Far more likely is a set of nice clothes giving you +1 charisma ala Mirrored Shades or googles that boost perception or something.

 

[Makagulfazel]

You guys say "I bet" with so much ridiculous shit I really need to start calling em. If I got even one dollar each time I could retire. Far more likely is a set of nice clothes giving you +1 charisma ala Mirrored Shades or googles that boost perception or something.

Okay, okay. You win. I'll wait until the game comes out to say, "Told you so."

I mean, the Fatman? Stat boosting bobble heads? Exploding nuclear cars? A town that has a nuclear warhead at the core, that NO ONE CARES TO EXPLOIT (But you get to!). Come on. How hard is it to imagine the other ridiculous shit they're going to implement?

 

[Pope Viper]

And don't forget about the the toilet water.

I can't wait to drink the toilet water.

 

[Madbringer]

You guys say "I bet" with so much ridiculous shit I really need to start calling em. If I got even one dollar each time I could retire.

Yeah, yeah. Funny thing is, the exact same line was fed to 'us' when 'we' cried it's going to be Oblivion with guns. And everyone was, like, 'wtf ridiculous'. I bet some of us said 'i bet' too.

Ta-da.

Btw, the goggles, they do nothing.

I don't think i like the idea of character weapon skill affecting it's damage output. I hit more vital spots with higher skill, you say? I say, i'm the one aiming, not my character. Bah. At least, apparently, the combat is Deux Ex'ish. Everything else aside, i like that.

 

[Black]

You guys say "I bet" with so much ridiculous shit I really need to start calling em. If I got even one dollar each time I could retire. Far more likely is a set of nice clothes giving you +1 charisma ala Mirrored Shades or googles that boost perception or something.

Please, don't compare mirrored shades that make you look better to boobleheads (or w/e they're called) that give you other stats bonuses.

 

[Makagulfazel]

I don't think i like the idea of character weapon skill affecting it's damage output. I hit more vital spots with higher skill, you say? I say, i'm the one aiming, not my character. Bah.

Since they did have to change the formula of the gameplay (for their immersing first-person/over-the-shoulder view), it would have cooler if they made the weapon skills affect weapon wear, chance for critical failures, aim, etc.

Some of these changes they did make, which were good decisions, but I'm with you - damage should not have been one of them. Your skill with weapons should alter your aim/capability with a gun, not make the bullet/weapon decide to hit harder.

Edit:

Please, don't compare mirrored shades that make you look better to boobleheads (or w/e they're called) that give you other stats bonuses.

He was comparing it to clothes that Emil said would give you stat bonuses. I still want to have your children. For supper.

 

[Briosafreak]

Re: Emil speaks on Fallout 3 combat

I must be seeing things.

Did you ever hear of "a cow is a bovine but a bovine is not a cow"?

Same thing. The playtesting team contains the dev team, but does not consist of the dev team.

True that, but everyone there really plays the game and provide feedback. Everyone.

 

[Vasara]

Character skill affecting weapon damage kind of makes sense for melee/unarmed. An unexperienced/untrained person would probably make more superficial wounds, although they'd probably miss quite a bit too in a fight. Would be best if skill affected both damage and accuracy, but I imagine that would be too frustrating and confusing for certain people.

For guns though... no matter who discharges the weapon, a bullet to the head will kill you. Or at least cripple your head

Weapon degradation could be a good addition if implemented correctly. It was annoying in Stalker when there seemed to be no one capable of cleaning your weapon in the zone.

The suit/headgear approach is fine. Customising clothing isn't really a big concern for me, and the suits could potentially be more unique when they don't have to be designed to fit together.

 

[Bodybag]

It works as a gameplay balance to keep someone from just Fatal1tying through the game without using any skill points on combat. I can imagine certain enemies in the game being nigh impossible to beat with just base weapon skill, no matter how many times you shoot them in the face.

I think I approve.