Emil speaks on Fallout 3 combat, armor and more.

Bodybag said:
It works as a gameplay balance to keep someone from just Fatal1tying through the game without using any skill points on combat. I can imagine certain enemies in the game being nigh impossible to beat with just base weapon skill, no matter how many times you shoot them in the face.

I think I approve.

Quite obviously it's not a disastrous design choice, but it could have been averted by making the actual weapons, well, deadly, much like they were in Deus Ex, of which the combat is supposed to be reminiscent. That way you can avoid the silly effect of shot projectiles magically increasing their damage output with your character's ability to handle the weapon.

Ain't crying though, just sayin' i don't really like that.
 
Bodybag said:
It works as a gameplay balance to keep someone from just Fatal1tying through the game without using any skill points on combat.
How? He says it's like in Deus Ex. In Deus Ex you can pwn with guns without investing skill points into firearms if you were good enough in Counter-Strike.
 
Black said:
How? He says it's like in Deus Ex

Well, the damage is still influenced by character skill in RT (unlike Deus Ex), so it might affect, or even prevent, pure-FPS pwnage like Bodybag is suggesting.

But this begs the question: how is having to headshot someone through entire rounds of minigun ammo until they drop any less immersion-breaking than missing a perfectly aimed shot? Plus, if localized damage is possible outside of VATS (which I can't recall right now), then it could very well end up like Oblivion's enchantments, effectively nullifying the impact of character skills.

The armor+headgear system is ok in a really sad way, since it reminds me of Van Buren. As long as they don't overdo the whole "stat bonuses" thing, that is.
 
Seymour the spore plant said:
Well, the damage is still influenced by character skill in RT (unlike Deus Ex), so it might affect, or even prevent, pure-FPS pwnage like Bodybag is suggesting.
If that's the case then it still doesn't change much. Baddies will just have to get 3 bullets to the head instead of 1. Sure, it increased usefulness of combat skills but still if you're good enough in FPS games they can just be your dump-skills.
 
Per said:
(...)
<blockquote>I'd say for combat, I generally go 70% V.A.T.S., 30% run-and-gun (but that's different for everyone, really).</blockquote>He follows up to say that for someone with a less than stellar hand-eye coordination, "V.A.T.S. is definitely going to be the way to go."
(...)
Well, I guess if I ever buy Fallout 3, that I will probably play it 100% with V.A.T.S., so I don't get my ass kicked because I prefer to "point and click" than to "shoot, shoot, shoot... and some times point".

But I think I read that Pete Hines said you wont be able to use V.A.T.S. all the time, you will need to go to real time and get your ass kicked so you can recover your Action Points!

But then again, after a while of watching all the V.A.T.S. killing in a cinematic fashion, I'll probably get sick of it and play the rest in real time.

But I guess that if I do that, I'll probably try to return the game, saying something like: "I'm not pleased with the product I bought. It doesn't comply with what was announced and is printed on the box...".


To be sure I will like what I'll buy, maybe I will try the demo before doing that!

Oh wait... There's no demo!
There's no need to have one, because Bethesda Softworks is the best software house in this Universe, and everybody knows that Fallout 3 is the best game ever made, since the Big Bang and until the Big Crunch!
 
Yeah, I was wondering about the VATS thing. I was under the impression that once you burned through your AP you had to switch to real time to get points back. Maybe that's what his 30% amounts to, recharging AP.

I dunno. The combat sounds different enough that I'll have to see it in practice some before I can really make up my mind on it. Like Bodybag was saying it's not an entirely terrible idea, just... Not sure on it. Bit confused on the clothes though, unless people in towns treat you better if you're not an armored wasteland adventurer-looking type. It would depend on the town of course (Vault City VS The Den for example) on if that would matter, but if that's the case it could be kind of neat. Apart from that, not sure what bonuses there would be.
 
In run-and-gun, ranged combat is... I dunno. I'd say it feels a lot like Deus Ex 1

What? Deus Ex 1? That came out in 2000. That's almost a decade ago.

That's not outdated?
 
Makagulfazel said:
Anani Masu said:
You guys say "I bet" with so much ridiculous shit I really need to start calling em. If I got even one dollar each time I could retire. Far more likely is a set of nice clothes giving you +1 charisma ala Mirrored Shades or googles that boost perception or something.

Okay, okay. You win. I'll wait until the game comes out to say, "Told you so."

I mean, the Fatman? Stat boosting bobble heads? Exploding nuclear cars? A town that has a nuclear warhead at the core, that NO ONE CARES TO EXPLOIT (But you get to!). Come on. How hard is it to imagine the other ridiculous shit they're going to implement?



hahah "shirt of the bull"

wow i hope my powered armor which will be asome! doesnt have crappy looking cloths all over it for the sake of making villagers like me..

or boosting my stats..." cloak of radioactive invisibility.." haha

Dam Bethesda trying to make magic.... seriously

the only way to make bullets better in fallout "was to have better ammo " and that ammo penetrated better...it wasnt smarter because i was.. and i could be terrible with a brand new gun...and it could blow up...if i was stupid.. or jinxed... i dont like the fact that my fucking weapons will run out...

i can see a minigun wearing out.. or and RPG.. but not a glock..or somthing that you can shoot for over 25 years...and never have a problem.


sad..so sad..


( and no super powered armored raiders???????) "aka the enclave patrol???

why not i like a fucking challenge!!!

bring em on!!
 
Reverend-Mauser said:
Dam Bethesda trying to make magic.... seriously

the only way to make bullets better in fallout "was to have better ammo " and that ammo penetrated better...it wasnt smarter because i was.. and i could be terrible with a brand new gun...and it could blow up...if i was stupid.. or jinxed... i dont like the fact that my fucking weapons will run out...

i can see a minigun wearing out.. or and RPG.. but not a glock..or somthing that you can shoot for over 25 years...and never have a problem.

So are you mad at them for being too unrealistic, or too realistic? Also, learn something about guns before saying you could shoot a gun constantly for "25 years" (in the desert, no less) without having a problem.

Unless it's an AK.
 
terebikun said:
Reverend-Mauser said:
Dam Bethesda trying to make magic.... seriously

the only way to make bullets better in fallout "was to have better ammo " and that ammo penetrated better...it wasnt smarter because i was.. and i could be terrible with a brand new gun...and it could blow up...if i was stupid.. or jinxed... i dont like the fact that my fucking weapons will run out...

i can see a minigun wearing out.. or and RPG.. but not a glock..or somthing that you can shoot for over 25 years...and never have a problem.

So are you mad at them for being too unrealistic, or too realistic? Also, learn something about guns before saying you could shoot a gun constantly for "25 years" (in the desert, no less) without having a problem.

Unless it's an AK.



( i have and collect antique wwI and WW2 pistols and rifles)

all were used in combat. And bare the scars of battle.

Which is really not alot. if you care for it. And dont go bashing it against a rock. (for lack of a better word ) guns dont just disentegrate after a few engagements. (minigun rpg Etc) could be
detrimentally effected by heat or whatever. "that i cant believe"

But what are these guns all made in china or something?

I just dont get why they "HAVE" to break.

If the gun got shot up in like a crossfire. (understandable) I think i would be dead before the gun got messed up .

(im talking about simple single action rifles and reliable pistols)

things that just dont explode if you dont clean them once or twice.

ok?? thanks.
 
You'll be out before you know it, Reverend-Mauser, if you keep that way. No double posting.

Also, learn to write.

Piece.
 
Aaaaand strike two. Don't double post, read the rules, and stop spamming.
 
Reverend-Mauser said:
Which is really not alot. if you care for it. And dont go bashing it against a rock. (for lack of a better word ) guns dont just disentegrate after a few engagements. (minigun rpg Etc) could be
detrimentally effected by heat or whatever. "that i cant believe"

But what are these guns all made in china or something?

I just dont get why they "HAVE" to break.

If the gun got shot up in like a crossfire. (understandable) I think i would be dead before the gun got messed up .

(im talking about simple single action rifles and reliable pistols)

things that just dont explode if you dont clean them once or twice.

ok?? thanks.

There's heat, but also the massive amounts of dust everywhere that will get into everything. And as for being made in China, yes. I believe there will be Chinese assault rifles in the game. From what I imagine, they don't "HAVE" to break, so long as you repair them once in awhile, which I liken to basic cleaning and maintenance. It's my hope that it won't be as infuriating as the constant breakdown in System Shock 2, but who knows. Also no one's saying they'll explode as a result, but that they'll (probably) just stop working. Maybe a critical failure will make something explode, but again, who knows.
 
i'm not going to get caught in a debate about weapon's wear and decay (as the issue is FAR more complex than what is being portrayed here).

i'll however note this, for the benefit of shooting neophytes:
- a gun with a damaged sear will not fire slower, as Beth implies, but will fire quicker. not to mention it might fire when you don't want it to, or it might even go full automatic in a gun that was meant to be semi-automatic.
- a 'worn' gun will only very rarely fire slower, unless the gastube is dirty, which requires cleaning, not mechanical repair. a truly worn gun however, might not cycle at all (gaspiston stuck, gas tap leaking,...) which might cause it to require manual cycling (if that is even possible).

there are many such "little" things that Beth could have used to balance weapons, without going to that "good" weapon = "higher DPS!". it's not that simple and quite frankly it really isn't an interesting system.

why not incorporate hang fires for bad quality ammo? slam fires on guns with a dirty or busted firing pin? full auto accidental mag dumps (good damage if you happen to be aiming just right at that very moment, but it also means you waste an entire mag of ammo into thin air)? jams? stovepipes? magazine failures? mag latch failures? etc etc.

the list is quite large and it certainly would add some realism and flavor to the whole thing. hell, you might even incorporate the character's weapons skill into how fast and how he tries to resolve the problem with his weapon.

i think the whole "use 2 busted guns to make 1 good gun" and "good gun = higher dps" is downright simplistic and even childish.

if a modder ever wants to mod this type of stuff into FO3 (or any game for that matter), feel free to bombard me with technical questions in PM ;)
 
SuAside said:
i think the whole "use 2 busted guns to make 1 good gun" and "good gun = higher dps" is downright simplistic and even childish.

Not exactly unusual for FPSs, tho'. Most games do not consider realistic gun usage, it's why they're games.
 
oi, you dummy. i'm not advocating real gun usage in a fooking FPRPG... seriously, you'd end up with single shot kills and stuff.

that is NOT what i was saying BN. stop getting all annoyed each and every time guns are mentioned, you commie pinko nazimuffin'.

remember how the original FO games could make you drop your magazine and loose your ammo? how you could drop your gun by accident and would have to pick it up and re-equip it?

those are gameplay mechanics, ye know. and if you're going to make durability matter, you might want to go down a similar path instead of the retarded "high durability does more damage" stuff.
 
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