Emil sums up level scaling

Ok guys, imagine that you're replaying FO2 in this way- Arroyo > Vault City > Vault 15 > Vaul 13 > San Fran > Navarro > San Fran > Enclave > Endgame

No, this is shit. This shouldn't be even possible. There should be the factor of being prepared. You shouldn't be able to complete the MQ with a wasteland-newbie.
 
aenemic said:
on the subject of Bethesda not implementing everything 100% the way they make it sound in the press, well... at least they're trying to make a functional game. remember how barely playable Fallout 2 was when it was released?

DirtyDreamDesigner said:
Bugs can be fixed but shitty design is forever.

Black said:
Ok guys, imagine that you're replaying FO2 in this way- Arroyo > Vault City > Vault 15 > Vaul 13 > San Fran > Navarro > San Fran > Enclave > Endgame

No, this is shit. This shouldn't be even possible. There should be the factor of being prepared. You shouldn't be able to complete the MQ with a wasteland-newbie.
You mean it shouldnt be possible becouse you dont get VC location in Arroyo ? :p
On 'wasteland noob' well, i never liked concept of level in this game anyway. Id like it way more if there was leveless character predefined on game start, with only minor advancement during gameplay.
 
It shouldn't be possible because fresh-from-a-tribe/vault guy saving the day is just stupid. But if the MQ scales to your level then it's possible.
 
Black said:
It shouldn't be possible because fresh-from-a-tribe/vault guy saving the day is just stupid.
yeah, thats nice, but id rather have this stupidity countered with PC obtaining information / equipement than killing rats in the wasteland or helping/killing random people
But if the MQ scales to your level then it's possible.
dont like scaling too
but if character didnt lvl up, there wouldnt be any need for scaling
 
Black said:
It shouldn't be possible because fresh-from-a-tribe/vault guy saving the day is just stupid. But if the MQ scales to your level then it's possible.

I think it's pretty safe to say that the main story will have a decent lowest level.
 
I just want to 'justify' my teddybear remark a bit.

I'm a big Fallout fan. Maybe not as crazy as some people here, but normally I play through the games about once a year. It's really one of my favorite games of all time as its setting and humor really appeal to me.

Initially I wasn't really so upset as some of the other Fallout fans when I heard Bethesda were going to make #3. I believed this could be a chance to finally have a third installment of our game and that it could genuinely be good. Most of the time I was annoyed reading NMA and its members bashing every single thing Bethesda did or said (mostly on speculative or unfounded basis), even before they started working on it.

I wasn't expecting a 'true' Fallout, but nevertheless a game that would stand for itself and would provide a good Fallouty experience. I quite liked Morrowind, mostly just to walk around the huge world with lots of different places and different looks. Oblivion was ok for the first few hours, but I got bored after a while. The world wasn't as diverse as its predecessor and it didn't seem as huge either. If they would learn from their mistakes and shift their ideas of an RPG (actual dialog, better stats, no levelling, ...) and make a good looking Fallout world, I presumed it could work. Some of the artwork was ok and the first trailer/teaser looked pretty neat.

However, from what I've seen in the screenshots and now in the demo movies, I'm left hugely disappointed. To me, it doesn't look like they captured the Fallout world correcty. When I first imagined a 3D Fallout world, I was thinking about huge deserts, Mad Max-like constructions (like the people from the oil pump in Mad Max 2), ..
I remember seeing a Fallout screenshot in a games magazine review (this one from Junktown: http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/original/981085145-00.jpg), that really convinced me to buy the game at the time. People living in a mutated world, shot to bits by an atomic war in the past, where they try to survive and rebuild some 'civilized' towns using scrap parts, trying to stay safe from all the dangers that they face. I just cannot find any of that in the things Bethesda have shown so far.

In their defense, they have only shown little bits of the game. But usually you demonstrate the most amazing features of your game to create the biggest interest and hype possible. E.g. I remember seeing screenshots and movies of Half-Life 2 after waiting for a long time and was stunned by what I saw. The conclusions that I've drawn from what Bethesda has shown me are the following. Keep in mind that it's based on my own opinion and personal taste of course.

- The world just didn't seem Fallout-like. It didn't show me the struggle to survive, the dangers of the wasteland and radiation, the (re)building of settlements.
- Going to first-person is acceptable, I can understand Bethesda have to take the 'mass-market' into account when it comes to making games. It's expensive and you have to attract a big audience. But what I saw was nothing more than a crappy FPS. I don't know what the AI was doing, but I didn't come to think at one point that they were an actual threat to me. In Fallout, I was sometimes thinking: better not have any trouble with those people, and I consequently avoided them.
- There wasn't any RPG aspect. This is an RPG, so I expect to see some NPC interaction and quest solving next to the combat. The combat didn't look great so if they prefered to show only the combat, I'm afraid the rest is even worse. Or perhaps RPG aspects don't appeal to most gamers so they don't show it? But in that case they're better off making a FPS with only bits of RPG in it. Or is that what they're actually doing?
- The combat looked flawed. Perhaps they're still working on it, but it didn't look exciting. On top of that the people exploded ridiculously after getting hit. The deaths in Fallout were sometimes exagerated, but remained realistic enough and really cool looking. There weren't body parts flying around all the time. Worst of all, a guy can explode after getting hit by a teddybear fired from a rocketlauncher. Come on... When I saw that all hope just perished.

Normally I'm one of the last guys to flame, and I can get really annoyed by some others continuously flaming on the least bit of information. I generally wait and see what will come and judge on that. You can see by my post count that I hardly ever reply, while I read NMA regularly. But in this case I just couldn't help myself. He says a guy got ripped into pieces by a deathclaw. If you can get killed by exploding into several parts because of an incoming teddybear, the deathclaw might as well spit fire or cast a spell.

That's why I couldn't help myself joking about it. I hardly ever read all the forum posts, so I didn't know this was an on-going joke. I even doubted posting it, and apparently for good reason :p.

So there you have it. I doubt I made a joke about something insignificant to Fallout 3, as it shows something seriously wrong about the combat and/or the humor (if it was meant as a joke). I liked the idea in Fallout 2 that you could rip the kid's Nixon doll apart in front of his eyes (although I never could :p). I just don't like the idea in Fallout 3 that you can blow someone to bits with a teddybear :). There's a world of difference.

Anyway. Perhaps a big post by me, but since I only rarely write here it's perhaps not so bad that I provide a substantial post instead of a single joke.
 
sounds like we have the same exact views and feelings about both Fallout 3 and the old games. I guess the difference is that I'm still expecting a decent game :P but honestly there are a lot of things that worry me. I just try not to jump to conclusions.

sure, the Deadly Teddybear of Utter Destruction is really silly, but like I said I'm fairly sure they just wanted to show a comical side of the game. if I'm going to be able to make people explode by shooting a teddybear at them in the game I'm gonna be a bit ticked off, but I'm simply not gonna use that gun in that case. but being able to fire teddybears or any other kind of silly things from that gun isn't that horrible in itself. when a friend of mine (who's also a huge Fallout fan) saw that part of the demo he laughed and said pretty much "typical Fallout humor". while I may not agree completely with that, it's true that Fallout 2 had a lot of the same kind of silly humor.

my thoughts on Bethesda only showing violence and barely any RPG elements are pretty much what you said: showing stats and long dialogues won't sell a game. well, to some of us. but at E3 it would be a total disaster.
 
As far as completing the MQ at lvl 1, I think you guys are missing something. You have to actually get to the MQ points thru the non scaled content. So sure, if you could teleport to each MQ point you could complete it at your lvl 1, but as I understand it you have to get there first which is impossible at lvl 1.
 
aenemic said:
I'm just pointing out how these constant "witty" remarks make this community look. and you're surprised people write negatively about you?

Bear jokes are the reason, huh? So people are sitting around going "BEAR JOKES AGAIN RARGH!??" and we're the rabid ones as usual?
 
I think that this system of level scaling is a much improved version over what we saw in Oblivion.

I don't think that the game will be beatable at lv 1. As mentioned above, for parts of the main quest you'll have to travel through areas that are scaled higher than a low level character, so you'll have to do some questing and whatnot to get to the next parts of the main quest.

I'm also glad that they learned their lesson about having bandits in full Daedric armour. Hopefully they'll deliver on this promise, and not let it just be another lie.

Overall, I think that they might have found a good balance between Morrowind's pre-set mobs and Oblivion's messed up scaling system.
 
tygernoot:

i am not a mad poster either. most posts are amde on the mutants rising subforum. didn't want to insult either you, nor anyone SPECIFICALLY from this forum. i was mostly referrign to the forum IN GENERAL, by making an obvious observation, and as i said, i read this forum for mostly info. but what i seem to see browsing topics is bombs that fall in bethesda's head. and as far as i understood from those interviews, they are doing their best to make this game worthwhile, so just wait and see!
 
I know and I didn't take any offense. I just wanted to justify my post and show that there was some reasoning behind my criticism, instead of looking like a Beth-basher ;)

I'm still hoping for the best and that we can enjoy the game as-is. I'm just not keeping my hopes up too high for a good Fallout-game.
 
Per said:
Emil Pagliarulo posted on the BGSF...

-- No, Raiders won't eventually be equipped with Power Armor.

If Beth was creative, they would do an interesting side quest where a Raider leader wears PA because he/she was skilled enough to kill one of them BOS or Enclave, striking fear and getting respect from other Raiders blah blah (homage to F2 tribal-in-BOS-helmet loading screen). Or that guy can just be wearing bits and pieces, like Ned Kelly. It can be an inside joke...
 
Don't want endless jokes and jabs about the gibbing Teddy Bears?

Then don't make them the centerpiece for your E3 demonstration, and be expected to be taken seriously.

Fallout 3 is getting this scorn, because it deserves it.
 
What?!? Scorn for the Teddy Bears?!?

HOW DARE YOU!

I thrown down the gauntlet, and challenge you to a Teddy Bear duel, sir.


Per, will you be my second? This young pup deserves a sound thrashing.

Teddy Bears at 10 paces, at dawn.

Be there, or I shall track you down and slay thee with a Teletubby.
 
Unillenium said:
Tongue in cheek humour my friend.

The US government isn't even as hush-hush about ufo reports as Beth has been about Fallout 3. So naturally they are going to get brutally lampooned for it.

On this we can agree totally.

I wish that more companies were more forthcoming about their games. It seems like companies like Blizzard, Bethesda, as well as a host of others keep their games so secretive these days.

I remember when I was just starting to get into gaming (back in the mid / late 80s) I'd buy an issue of PC Gamer or Nintendo Power and it was FULL of in-depth previews of upcoming games that I wanted to play.

In terms of Beth's handling of FO3, I'm still optimistic that it'll be a fun game, but they really should release a demo, or give us something more than what they have up to this point.
 
Wait, you think Blizzard is secretive?

Sure, Blizzard announces games in their own time, but once announced they just toss everything out there.
 
Brother None said:
Wait, you think Blizzard is secretive?

Sure, Blizzard announces games in their own time, but once announced they just toss everything out there.

Thats not true, we know next to nothing about Diablo III and only slightly more than that about Starcraft 2.


As far as level scaling goes, I guess it depends on the type of person you are. I've never, in any game, found enjoyment by going back to low level places and killing now helpless enemies.

Morrowind had a LOT of that...once you got to a certain level, exploring became boring because so much of the game was below you...and it didn't take long to get to that point.

I've yet to hit a point in Oblivion where I was not constantly being challenged. Of the two, I prefer Oblivion, though I agree the gear was silly at certain points.

Either way, as long as I can mod the game, I don't have any real big issues.
 
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