The Outsider
Wandering Entity
Sorry, just wanted to put out some comedic posts...
Nothing personal, really!
Escapist Magazine calls Bethesda killers of Fallout
- Thread starter The_Proletarian
- Start date
Nothing personal, really!
What’re you talking about, he’s 6’2”.
Sounds like someone needs a visit from the Skyrim Salesman.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
You forget that he was a voice actor in Oblivion too! Such talent! Puts the industry's best voice actors to shame! Move over Troy Baker and Travis Willingham! Todd Howard is going to take the voice acting world by storm!
The Outsider
Wandering Entity
You forget that he was a voice actor in Oblivion too! Such talent! Puts the industry's best voice actors to shame! Move over Troy Baker and Travis Willingham! Todd Howard is going to take the voice acting world by storm!
He sounded just like a lifeless angel.
mef
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
virgin todd howard vs chad tim cain
Carib FMJ
Nuka-Cola Chaser
Well, I guess the last taps can be played over the coffin of Fallout. It was a solid article.
Aboyandhisdog
First time out of the vault
Hey, first post, hope I'm not necroing this and I know I'm late to the conversation but I wanted to add my thoughts.
Recently I downloaded Fallout 4 for my PC and modded the hell out of it. It was fun. For awhile. But something just kept scratching in the back of my brain that really made me...'nostalgic' for the older games in the "series" and I use that term lightly. I've been ghost-guesting this site for a long time, pre FO-3 days. I came here back in the day when I modded Fallout Tactics. That being said, it's what brought me back, and I was happy as hell to see the site still up and running, and people like me, who have a stronger love for the older games.
My opinion regarding the newer games is that while they are fallout games in title, they capture some of the elements of the source material but spiral off into vastly different directions. Whether that's bad or good for you as a gamer, is up to your personal taste. There are things I enjoy about the games, but I also wanted to point out some of the seriously detracting elements that in my opinion, could have been remedied with a little different production design.
First, a lot of people seem to be talking about the 'deeper philosophical meaning and depth' etc etc what have you regarding some of the original content from the first two games. Respectfully, I don't agree. I am not saying that these games lack depth, but they were not intended to carry any significant 'message' other than that which is carried by it's essential theme. The first two games, if anything, drew from a significant amount of other popular material from the past 10-15 years before they were even written. Let's make a list of what inspired the first Fallout game so we have some context.
PC Game: Wasteland (1988): HEAVY influence, in terms of RPG system, setting, and game rule structure. SPECIAL is almost directly taken from Wasteland's CLASSIC.
Movies: Road Warrior (1981)/Mad Max (1979): HEAVY influence on thematic flavor, especially in terms of 'lone wanderer', the car, the clothing, and raiders.
A Boy and His Dog (1975): Possibly an influence even on movies like Road Warrior. Yes it's my account name. If you haven't seen it, ***SPOILER WARNING*** it involves underground 50's themed technological bunkers where men are farmed for their genetic material for reproduction purposes then terminated. Involves elements of violence, scavenging, survival, and cannibalism. Obvious influence for concept of Vaults and 50's style pop-theme.
***End Spoiler***
Novels: Starship Troopers (Novel, 1959): The opening CGI intro video to Fallout, the first game, is almost a direct rip off of several elements that were a central theme to this novel. First, we see two power armored soldiers executing a prisoner under a guise of peace keeping efforts on television. They know they are being filmed. The first soldier shoots the victim dead. Then shoots them again several seconds after he is already dead. The other soldier laughs. The first soldier waves at the camera. Followed by an overshot of a power armored soldier with a waving American flag in the background. This sets the tone. It is over the top, gratuitous violence, mockery, indifference towards life, nationalism (fanaticism), and satire. How exactly, does fallout 3 and fallout 4 (I cannot speak on 76), deviate from this formula?
So what we have, is a big company that bought out a video game series that marketed itself based upon a theme that predates it's original video game release by about 20 years. Not to mention, that these movies that were written and produced in the 70's, relied heavily upon the nostalgia of the World War II and Cold-War era paranoia and pop themes like the whole pin-up girl influence (which as far as I know wasn't introduced in the Fallout series until 3). A lot of Fallout 3, and particularly Fallout 4 with Automotron, we see a further dive into the pop themes of even OLDER source material, like the pop magazines that had robotic and old science fiction source material as found in 1920's-1930's magazines like "Weird Tales" and "Astonishing Tales" etc etc, authors like Ray Bradbury and so on.
If you look, I keep going further back and further back, until we get to the 1920's or so regarding source material. My issue isn't with ANY OF THE ABOVE. Truly, it's the games themselves.
While entertaining on a certain level, the modernization of it to appeal to the next generation gamer's, in my opinion, made the games less captivating. I was gonna write and break all of that down too, but to be honest I wrote way more than I initially wanted because I hate talking and saying this much. Maybe I'll write a second part if anyone really read all of the nonsense above, but let's face it, answers to a lot of problems and questions can sometimes be much more in depth and complicated than people like to really look into or pay attention to. THIS IS MOST LIKELY WHY THE DUMBING DOWN AND SIMPLIFICATION OF THE FRANCHISE HAS TAKEN PLACE.
It's a RL issue. There's a lot they could have done differently on a basic simple level, but I'll only write on that if people actually ask this time, I've talked too much already.
PS: Wasteland 2 Directors Cut is awesome.
Recently I downloaded Fallout 4 for my PC and modded the hell out of it. It was fun. For awhile. But something just kept scratching in the back of my brain that really made me...'nostalgic' for the older games in the "series" and I use that term lightly. I've been ghost-guesting this site for a long time, pre FO-3 days. I came here back in the day when I modded Fallout Tactics. That being said, it's what brought me back, and I was happy as hell to see the site still up and running, and people like me, who have a stronger love for the older games.
My opinion regarding the newer games is that while they are fallout games in title, they capture some of the elements of the source material but spiral off into vastly different directions. Whether that's bad or good for you as a gamer, is up to your personal taste. There are things I enjoy about the games, but I also wanted to point out some of the seriously detracting elements that in my opinion, could have been remedied with a little different production design.
First, a lot of people seem to be talking about the 'deeper philosophical meaning and depth' etc etc what have you regarding some of the original content from the first two games. Respectfully, I don't agree. I am not saying that these games lack depth, but they were not intended to carry any significant 'message' other than that which is carried by it's essential theme. The first two games, if anything, drew from a significant amount of other popular material from the past 10-15 years before they were even written. Let's make a list of what inspired the first Fallout game so we have some context.
PC Game: Wasteland (1988): HEAVY influence, in terms of RPG system, setting, and game rule structure. SPECIAL is almost directly taken from Wasteland's CLASSIC.
Movies: Road Warrior (1981)/Mad Max (1979): HEAVY influence on thematic flavor, especially in terms of 'lone wanderer', the car, the clothing, and raiders.
A Boy and His Dog (1975): Possibly an influence even on movies like Road Warrior. Yes it's my account name. If you haven't seen it, ***SPOILER WARNING*** it involves underground 50's themed technological bunkers where men are farmed for their genetic material for reproduction purposes then terminated. Involves elements of violence, scavenging, survival, and cannibalism. Obvious influence for concept of Vaults and 50's style pop-theme.
***End Spoiler***
Novels: Starship Troopers (Novel, 1959): The opening CGI intro video to Fallout, the first game, is almost a direct rip off of several elements that were a central theme to this novel. First, we see two power armored soldiers executing a prisoner under a guise of peace keeping efforts on television. They know they are being filmed. The first soldier shoots the victim dead. Then shoots them again several seconds after he is already dead. The other soldier laughs. The first soldier waves at the camera. Followed by an overshot of a power armored soldier with a waving American flag in the background. This sets the tone. It is over the top, gratuitous violence, mockery, indifference towards life, nationalism (fanaticism), and satire. How exactly, does fallout 3 and fallout 4 (I cannot speak on 76), deviate from this formula?
So what we have, is a big company that bought out a video game series that marketed itself based upon a theme that predates it's original video game release by about 20 years. Not to mention, that these movies that were written and produced in the 70's, relied heavily upon the nostalgia of the World War II and Cold-War era paranoia and pop themes like the whole pin-up girl influence (which as far as I know wasn't introduced in the Fallout series until 3). A lot of Fallout 3, and particularly Fallout 4 with Automotron, we see a further dive into the pop themes of even OLDER source material, like the pop magazines that had robotic and old science fiction source material as found in 1920's-1930's magazines like "Weird Tales" and "Astonishing Tales" etc etc, authors like Ray Bradbury and so on.
If you look, I keep going further back and further back, until we get to the 1920's or so regarding source material. My issue isn't with ANY OF THE ABOVE. Truly, it's the games themselves.
While entertaining on a certain level, the modernization of it to appeal to the next generation gamer's, in my opinion, made the games less captivating. I was gonna write and break all of that down too, but to be honest I wrote way more than I initially wanted because I hate talking and saying this much. Maybe I'll write a second part if anyone really read all of the nonsense above, but let's face it, answers to a lot of problems and questions can sometimes be much more in depth and complicated than people like to really look into or pay attention to. THIS IS MOST LIKELY WHY THE DUMBING DOWN AND SIMPLIFICATION OF THE FRANCHISE HAS TAKEN PLACE.
It's a RL issue. There's a lot they could have done differently on a basic simple level, but I'll only write on that if people actually ask this time, I've talked too much already.
PS: Wasteland 2 Directors Cut is awesome.
Jabberwok
Mildly Dipped
Not sure who you mean, but from what I remember, some of us were just pointing out that the old games were capable of satire. Others were then accusing us of calling the game 'deep' [whatever that means] in a sort of straw man switcheroo.
Emphasis added. Judging by that, I'd say you actually agree with what was said earlier. Some people seem to have a switch in their head that tells them something is either philosophy or not philosophy; as if there's no mental space between a Platonic dialogue and a grunting contest. I don't think anyone was claiming that Fallout was trying to be the former. The problem is that that essential theme you mention has been muddled or even betrayed by later games of the franchise.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
This tells you all you need to know about Bethesda not giving a shit when it comes to lore and how utterly fucking lazy they are when it comes to making games:
Aboyandhisdog
First time out of the vault
Part of the problem is they are trying to make the game appeal to a wider range of gamers (revenue motivation) and it lost part of its identity in the process. Part 3rd person shooter/turn based VATS/RPGlite that is easily outshined by most games that focus on one aspect as opposed to all three. Instead of having an awesome hybrid, you have a game that performs mediocre at best in only certain areas and sucks at the others. Storytelling: Weak, FPS: Mediocre at best, Choice: Weak, RPG Freedom: Weak. The settlement building is very gimmicky, settlers falling over each other and barely able to go up a flight of stairs, easily bugging out. Too much micromanaging garbage picking. They should have simplified the colony aspect and streamlined that part instead of all the other stuff. The dumbing down of the RPG aspect was abysmal. We don't even need SPECIAL anymore. And perks that let you breathe underwater? WHAT? If there were ever parts like that in the original games, you'd grow gills and people would hunt you down for being a mutant/freak. Nevermind that, now go find Shaun.
All Bethesda bought was the title and right to keep using Vault-tec, Pip-boy, and Nuka Cola. Take those away, and its a generic 'post apocalyptic' minecraft for pre-teens.
Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Holy shit, that last part. And people dare to even claim that Bethesda cares about this franchise. What's even worse is that they crossed many lines that they shouldn't have crossed and not just stopped after they crossed the line, they kept just going.This tells you all you need to know about Bethesda not giving a shit when it comes to lore and how utterly fucking lazy they are when it comes to making games:
View attachment 11647
Jabberwok
Mildly Dipped
This, exactly. In the original Fallout, these three things were symbols of a flawed, consumptive society that destroyed itself; a society divorced from the reality it resulted in. Bethesda seems to have turned those cheesy corporate logos into icons to be venerated, which is almost as ironic as them turning nuclear weapons into fun toys.
The Outsider
Wandering Entity
"The truth is... the franchise was rigged from the start." - Todd Howard
That Charismatic-Cheeky Bastard!
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Dialogue is too hard and boring guys:
And these people are in charge of a franchise that was known for being dialogue heavy.
And these people are in charge of a franchise that was known for being dialogue heavy.
0wing
Все умрут, а я волномут
Welp, Fallout 76 is alot more text-heavy and not in a convenient form of, the horror, dialogs but in a form of lore dispensers of various types and npc (robots are still npcs by internal engine logic) monologues. It does mean that super mutant Pete contradicts himself.And these people are in charge of a franchise that was known for being dialogue heavy.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Gotta love the "i have ADHD and that means i don't like long dialogue" and then have Todd Howard brag about how many lines of dialogue Fallout 4 has. Besides Pete Hines contradicting himself, Todd Howard contradicts Pete Hines.
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Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
Only in the same sense as "Pet Cemetery".
What returned was not a beloved, cherished friend—but some thing in the husk.
Actually... FO3 was like a Cuckoo bird in the nest; murdering the real offspring to steal what should have been theirs.
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mannawyadden
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Ok, but Fallout 3 is the reason I discovered Fallout. My friend rented a copy of Fallout 3 from Blockbuster in early 2009, more than a decade after Fallout 1 came out. I'd never heard of the series before that. Even if you consider the game to be a husk or a cuckoo bird, I'll stand by my belief that Bethesda deserves credit for bringing the series more notoriety and exposure than it had before.
Also a ton of merchandise, for people that collect that stuff. Fallout Monopoly has two sides of the board dedicated to locations from Fallout 1 and 2 in it. I thought it was cool.
Jabberwok
Mildly Dipped
But why does Bethesda specifically deserve this credit? ANY major company that bought the license could put out a new game under it and produce buzz for the originals. If there are elements of Fallout 3 that you think have merit, that's a different issue. But I don't see the mere act of a game studio releasing a game as an accomplishment worthy of praise.