Establishment of Alternative Fan Timeline/Canon

ChrisB

ChrisB

First time out of the vault
I don't know if anyone has proposed this, and a lot of us disagree with some of Bethesda's decisions and probably outright laziness with lore, but has anyone tried to bring some/all of the massive fan projects together as an alternative timeline which makes an "Official Unofficial" canon. It would be really great to do this and Bethesda doesn't seem to mind fan-works. It would give us some piece of mind (and don't get me wrong, I do like the Bethesda titles), that we can appreciate our own "official canon" as a legitimate alt timeline for Fallout. Star Wars fandom should do the same thing to preserve legends, and expand upon it, but that might get Disney's ire. Fallout Resurrection, Nevada, upcoming stuff like Miami, Cascadia, and North Star, and whatnot. I'm arguing for a community agreement or 'committee' to establish this canon and maintain it perhaps on a separate wikia.
 
ChrisB said:
I don't know if anyone has proposed this, and a lot of us disagree with some of Bethesda's decisions and probably outright laziness with lore, but has anyone tried to bring some/all of the massive fan projects together as an alternative timeline which makes an "Official Unofficial" canon. It would be really great to do this and Bethesda doesn't seem to mind fan-works. It would give us some piece of mind (and don't get me wrong, I do like the Bethesda titles), that we can appreciate our own "official canon" as a legitimate alt timeline for Fallout. Star Wars fandom should do the same thing to preserve legends, and expand upon it, but that might get Disney's ire. Fallout Resurrection, Nevada, upcoming stuff like Miami, Cascadia, and North Star, and whatnot. I'm arguing for a community agreement or 'committee' to establish this canon and maintain it perhaps on a separate wikia.
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Funny. I actually have been pondering this idea but the problem is community projects here usually tire out. It is a manpower thing. Bring your friends. Tell them everything you heard about NMA is a lie. When they get here we lock them in so they never leave. Then we start the project and use slave labor to get it done. Success!

I can pitch in a bunch of stuff if this does get off the ground though.
 
TorontRayne said:
Funny. I actually have been pondering this idea but the problem is community projects here usually tire out. It is a manpower thing. Bring your friends. Tell them everything you heard about NMA is a lie. When they get here we lock them in so they never leave. Then we start the project and use slave labor to get it done. Success!

I can pitch in a bunch of stuff if this does get off the ground though.
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I'm not sure I fully follow. I'm arguing for a comparatively small project, a wikia or reference website which is agreed upon canon (official and fan content combined).
 
The NMA PnP project was kinda intended to involve this, but I'm a lazy fuck so it kinda died. Mea culpa.
 
Problem with what is canon and what isn't for a fanon project is when there's conflicting viewpoints.

For example, some would not want Tactics considered canon.
Some considers it semi-canon.
Some see it as canon in everything but the stuff that contradicts other lore.

But which is the correct viewpoint and will be taken as the unofficial official stance going forward?

I mean if the unofficial official fanon contradicts enough with someone elses fanon then what's the point?

Is Restoration Project canon? I think so.
Is Old World Blues canon? I don't want it to be.

I bet that will cause conflicts right there.

It sounds nice on paper to get the fans together and say "fuck you Bethesda, you fucked the lore up so now we're deciding what is and isn't proper" but when you actually get down to it there will be conflicts of opinion. And if in the end Old World Blues ends up in this hypothetical wiki then it means it breaks 'my' fanon as I absolutely can't stand it, so the wiki would be wrong in my opinion. I can't look at the official wiki's without being annoyed that it takes lore from games I don't consider canon. I doubt much would change with a fanon wiki.
 
Mr Fish said:
Problem with what is canon and what isn't for a fanon project is when there's conflicting viewpoints.

For example, some would not want Tactics considered canon.
Some considers it semi-canon.
Some see it as canon in everything but the stuff that contradicts other lore.

But which is the correct viewpoint and will be taken as the unofficial official stance going forward?

I mean if the unofficial official fanon contradicts enough with someone elses fanon then what's the point?

Is Restoration Project canon? I think so.
Is Old World Blues canon? I don't want it to be.

I bet that will cause conflicts right there.

It sounds nice on paper to get the fans together and say "fuck you Bethesda, you fucked the lore up so now we're deciding what is and isn't proper" but when you actually get down to it there will be conflicts of opinion. And if in the end Old World Blues ends up in this hypothetical wiki then it means it breaks 'my' fanon as I absolutely can't stand it, so the wiki would be wrong in my opinion. I can't look at the official wiki's without being annoyed that it takes lore from games I don't consider canon. I doubt much would change with a fanon wiki.
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that's why I think we should come together and arrange some kind of discussion. Old World Blues is HoI4 yes? I don't see any reason to make that canon and it actually surprises me you brought it up, but I see your point. I thought Bethesda considered Tactics "Semi-Canon" in that the major events all happened but the details might not have. I'm proposing we make our own official canon via committee, group participation.

Addendum:
I'm personally proposing anything by Bethesda not be decanonized, including Fallout 4. Though I do have Fallout 4's canon being tweaked in mind.
 
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I think that rather than uniting different fan projects we should just settle for what counts as lore. It gets really messy to debate when you willfully ignore some parts of the canon as such. Notably, the most controversial lore is definitely Bethesda's, but Tactics OWB (and honestly Dead Money Tech IMHO) is rather controversial, so we should set some common points.
 
I agree with Sublime, the best approach would be to hammer out the unofficial fan canon first. From there if others want to use it they can.
 
Vault-Tec, like most government sponsored projects, were an abysmal failure. No vaults at all were up to standard. When the bombs fell, everybody died. Everybody. The rest of the franchise is just the dying dream of a random human dying of radiation poisoning on October 23, 2077.
 
Einhanderc7 said:
I agree with Sublime, the best approach would be to hammer out the unofficial fan canon first. From there if others want to use it they can.
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Lou is too spooky for me.
Yeah I think Sublime is right. But this is something we should at least try to do. It will give more legitimacy to fan canon. That's the point.
 
I would love to put forward my input, perhaps we all should schedule a meeting of the minds via discord some time to hash out various details. However I strongly suggest that we create a topic outline before hand and stick to it. At least to ensure we discuss the same points and don't get off topic too much.
 
Make a Trello page (to coordinate). Make an NMA forum thread, to have interested members list their areas of ability; and to join the Trello page.
Have the writers write, have the artists sketch, based on the writings; and have the modelers develop (or modify existing) game assets. Use a Bethesda Fallout product for the engine; and (ideally) have a few members with experience making maps, and conversations with that engine.
Make a total conversion.

FO:Tactics would seem advantageous; FO:New Vegas—ambitious.

Either engine could be used to produce something like this:
NV_Combat_Concept.jpg


Ideally, the ranks would add members to fill the loss of those who drop out—and keep project going.
 
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I'm relatively new here. I wouldn't know where to begin organizing this, but I think some of you would. I'll follow and contribute.
 
The canon was established by Fallout 1, Fallout 2 and the Fallout Bible. (the biblbe being there to establish stuff that wasn't established initially, or correct the inconsistencies of Fo1-Fo2)

Any sequels or mod can be considered as more or less lore friendly, depending on how it conflict with the main source, throught its facts, its themes, its tone, and its storytelling approach.

Some sequels or mods don't contradict specific many events from the originals, but are totally missing the tone, or themes. While others have a few contradicting elements, but managed to capture the essence.

But i don't see the point of arbitrary choosing between two mods that deal with the same stuff on a different way. For instance, there are two mods (not 100% finished) that feature the new Arroyo after the chosen one saved the world. Those two interpretations are both lore friendly, but none of them are canons. And if there is a thrid interpretation of New Arroyo, it can still be valid, if done right. But no less or no more canon than the first two. The only thing canon about New Arroyo is that it was built by arroyans and vault dwellers with a GECK.

And you consider your favourite between them as your headcanon.
 
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naossano said:
The canon was established by Fallout 1, Fallout 2 and the Fallout Bible. (the biblbe being there to establish stuff that wasn't established initially, or correct the inconsistencies of Fo1-Fo2)

Any sequels or mod can be considered as more or less lore friendly, depending on how it conflict with the main source, throught its facts, its themes, its tone, and its storytelling approach.

Some sequels or mods don't contradict specific many events from the originals, but are totally missing the tone, or themes. While others have a few contradicting elements, but managed to capture the essence.
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Well I don't want it to simply end with Fallout 2. What exactly is "Lore Friendly"? I wanted to have an alternative canon established for the purpose of having a greater tale to tell, that fans can appreciate and discuss. I can't refer to events from a fan made project in any discussion unless we actually establish an alternative canon. Compromise is worth it. I know people will disagree, but at the very least, we should take events, characters, and storylines, that can be largely agreed upon, and use that as a basis. It's just, I want something more than just every total conversion is just its own thing, with no legitimacy outside what the player immediately feels they should give it. It doesn't carry over to anyone else.
 
I don't have a problem mentioning that *This is an interpretation of this modder of that modder of what would happen in this area in this period of time. I disagree with this and i agree with that.* Or *The Chosen one most likely chose to recruit Sulik in his quest, but might have not*. Discussion usually come up within those grey areas that aren't set in stone. (not always, but often)
 
What about a dedicated Fanon wiki? The events could be considered mostly canon (within the fanon obviously), with the details all being explained, but up for debate? Is no one willing to try a collaborative lore project? Star War's Expanded Universe is a rough example. I know Disney effectively killed it, and there are inconsistencies. But it's the best example I could think of. (Speaking of which, all Disney would have to do for me to enjoy Star Wars is for them to declare it an alternative timeline but still canon for that timeline.)
 
The Official Fallout wikis (there are two. Long story) are full of non canon events :
- Events of special encounters that are never canons.
- Content appearing in the original games, but later disregarded in the Fallout Bible.
- Quests that can be dealt in different ways or not be taken at all. Those contents are full of things that might happen or might not happen.
- Content that was originally planned by the dev, but never put ingame. (some of it was never restored by Sduibek's FIXT, Killap Restoration Project or similar projects for later titles).
- Content from officially non canon games, like Fallout Shelter or Fallout:Brotherhood of Steel.
- Content from never finished games, like Van Buren or Tactics 2.
- Content from some major mods, like the FIXT or Restoration Project.
- Contents that were removed in later updates.
- Demo contents.

There are mentioned as non-canon, but mentioned nonetherless.
 
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