European Championship discussion thread! Americans keep out.
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Meh. The only player I knew was Charisteas, thanks to Pro Evolution Soccer 3 (damn I love that game). I still think the players themselves were sucky, but that the coach pulled it all together to make a great team. There's a difference between individual class and a good team.
As for Van Nistelrooy and Makaay:
Van Nistelrooy has shown me this tournament why he is considered to be so great: he can create opportunities, and score from them. And he can do it at any point in the match.
Makaay was not underrated or thought of as not good by Advocaat, but Van Nistelrooy was thought of as better, and I agree with him. Van Nistelrooy fought more, and conquered balls, while Makaay more or less stayed in front. Makaay isn't the right striker for the Dutch team, while Van Nistelrooy could be.
Yes, that was what was being said in the Netherlands for the two years after 2002. So Advocaat tried and tried and tried, tried to match two strikers together, but it wouldn't work. YOu wouldn't believe the horrendous matches we played before the European Championship, all with two strikers in various combinations. Bah.
My players:
Goal:
Van Der Sar. Ricardo was way too full of himself after the penalty against England, cocky bastard.
Defense:
-Stam, even though Stam made some mistakes, he's a great steadfast defender.
-Dellas. I have little confidence in any of the Greek players performing well outside of their squad, but they belong here.
-Seitaridis
Midfield:
-Zidane. Man oh man, what a man.
-Figo. He played brilliantly against the Dutch team, he's placed here purely based on that game.
-Nedved. Brilliant player, the Czech team crumbled without him
-Ballack. Even though his team got kicked out deservedly, he's still a great player, with a brilliant goal.
Attack:
-Robben. Great wing player.
-Ronaldo. Same here.
-Van Nistelrooy. Can score goals, can hold a ball and can conquer a ball.
-Baros. Best striker in the entire championship, great play.
Huh?
Hades is the name usually used to refer to the god of death, while Thanatos simply means death, so I'd say Hades is better.
Francisco M L S G S
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I think the Greek goalkeeper and Van der Sar are much better than Ricardo.
In fact, in the greek team the only thing I like is the defense, the strongest in the whole championship. Besides the defense all they try to do is put the ball in the box or gain dangerous free kicks or corner kicks which, in fact, isn't easy to do but with the right players for that tactic with the right manager. Notice they scored most goals from a corner or a free kick and after that they don't try to play any more. That's why I don't like the Greek team and their matches, not because they beat us twice and not because I'm a sour loser.
Still, they had all the merit winning the EC.
Why do you guys name only 3 defenders?
In fact, in the greek team the only thing I like is the defense, the strongest in the whole championship. Besides the defense all they try to do is put the ball in the box or gain dangerous free kicks or corner kicks which, in fact, isn't easy to do but with the right players for that tactic with the right manager. Notice they scored most goals from a corner or a free kick and after that they don't try to play any more. That's why I don't like the Greek team and their matches, not because they beat us twice and not because I'm a sour loser.
Still, they had all the merit winning the EC.
Why do you guys name only 3 defenders?
Francisco M L S G S
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Can't do. You have 2 left defenders and 3 center midfielders
Hellion
Antediluvian Lurker
Thanatos was actually the personification (or simply God if you like) of non-violent death, while Hades was actually the god of the dead and ruler of the Underworld. Thanatos also had a twin brother called Hypnos (which means "sleep").
Taken from an online mythology guide:
Thanatos appeared as an austere priest of Hades in a dark robe and bearing a sacrificial sword with which he cut off a lock of a dying person's hair, devoting it to Hades and Persephone. He was depicted as a winged god.
And, here's UEFA's EURO all-star squad:
Goalkeepers:
Petr Cech - Czech Republic
Antonios Nikopolidis - Greece
Defenders:
Sol Campbell - England
Ashley Cole - England
Traianos Dellas - Greece
Olof Mellberg - Sweden
Ricardo Carvalho - Portugal
Georgios Seitaridis - Greece
Gianluca Zambrotta - Italy
Midfield players:
Michael Ballack - Germany
Luís Figo - Portugal
Frank Lampard - England
Maniche - Portugal
Pavel Nedved - Czech Republic
Theodoros Zagorakis - Greece
Zinedine Zidane - France
Forwards:
Milan Baroš - Czech Republic
Angelos Charisteas - Greece
Henrik Larsson - Sweden
Cristiano Ronaldo - Portugal
Wayne Rooney - England
Jon Dahl Tomasson - Denmark
Ruud van Nistelrooij - Netherlands
Taken from an online mythology guide:
Thanatos appeared as an austere priest of Hades in a dark robe and bearing a sacrificial sword with which he cut off a lock of a dying person's hair, devoting it to Hades and Persephone. He was depicted as a winged god.
And, here's UEFA's EURO all-star squad:
Goalkeepers:
Petr Cech - Czech Republic
Antonios Nikopolidis - Greece
Defenders:
Sol Campbell - England
Ashley Cole - England
Traianos Dellas - Greece
Olof Mellberg - Sweden
Ricardo Carvalho - Portugal
Georgios Seitaridis - Greece
Gianluca Zambrotta - Italy
Midfield players:
Michael Ballack - Germany
Luís Figo - Portugal
Frank Lampard - England
Maniche - Portugal
Pavel Nedved - Czech Republic
Theodoros Zagorakis - Greece
Zinedine Zidane - France
Forwards:
Milan Baroš - Czech Republic
Angelos Charisteas - Greece
Henrik Larsson - Sweden
Cristiano Ronaldo - Portugal
Wayne Rooney - England
Jon Dahl Tomasson - Denmark
Ruud van Nistelrooij - Netherlands
Francisco M L S G S
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Yes, Pavel Nedved, Maniche and Deco. Both Nedved and Deco play a little behind the strickers but still in the midfield. Maniche plays right in the middle of the field, helping both the attack and the defense (and he does it oh so well!). Cristiano Ronaldo plays in the wings, but can't play in the right and in the left wing at the same time so you forgot a right / left midfielder. You have to let Deco or Nedved go and put someone who plays in the wing.
Actually, Nedved pays both those positions, and all the games I saw of the Czech I saw him playing very well as a left-winger, so I stick with him for that place, can’t think of a better person to do it.
I realize that my strategy probably lacks a more defensive midfielder like Costinha, but I think Maniche can fill that spot and Deco recovers a lot of balls.
I realize that my strategy probably lacks a more defensive midfielder like Costinha, but I think Maniche can fill that spot and Deco recovers a lot of balls.
Francisco M L S G S
It Wandered In From the Wastes
My mistake, you're right. Rosicky's the one who plays behind the strikers in the Czech team.
If you put a player with defensive characteristics you must play with only 1 striker or 3 defenders and both aren't allowed in the dream team (I think it's always 4x4x2 because only 1 striker means they have to pick only one between aproximatly 15 other good strikers. The same applies for 3 defenders).
If you put a player with defensive characteristics you must play with only 1 striker or 3 defenders and both aren't allowed in the dream team (I think it's always 4x4x2 because only 1 striker means they have to pick only one between aproximatly 15 other good strikers. The same applies for 3 defenders).
Because we're talking about our dream eleven, not our dream team. There's a difference.
*scratches head*
I don't believe you. Seriously, I've never even heard of Thanatos (outside of silly modern people using it in stead of death), while I have read a LOT of Greek myths. Seriously.
Loxley said:So who fdo you think will winn the world championship Kharn, just so i know where to place my bets?
Haahahaha, you're so funny. I bet that with your able sense of humour you predicted everything right!
Besides which, the Czechs did beat the Danes
I don't remember what I posted here, 'n all, but in real life my predictions were all accurate except for 4 points:
1. Greece making the finals.
2. Portugal making the finals.
3. France losing to Greece.
4. Greece and Portugal making the semis.
Sander said:
Thanatos is kind of what Death is in our lore. He's the figure (kind of a God, but meh) who takes lives. Hades is just the Lord of the Underworld and the Dead, he doesn't really have much to do with people's deaths, in general.
Francisco said:
Bull. If you blind yourself on a 4x4x2 you can't put up the best players. Their positions depends on who they are, be it 4x4x2 or 4x3x3.
Sander said:
Van Nistelrooy is probably the most overrated player I know.
But I really hate this by-the-books way of playing. Flanking of to somehow get the ball to the center player who then kicks it in. Van Nistelrooy spoiled a lot of those chances too.
No, I prefer the old Kluiver-Berkamp tactic. Two forward attackers.
Sander said:
Didn't, but we didn't have all our elements and a lot will chance before the WC. I'm hoping we'll drop these tactics.
You named 12 players, Sander. And having two artsies like Robben and Ricardo in the field at the same time ain't too smart.
Francisco said:
Nope, sorry. Yes, it was tilted, but it always is. You probably didn't notice, but there was plenty of homeland pro-Portugal whistling too. It's what happens.
But it wasn't monstreously tilted. Korea deserved to beat the teams it did.
The attitude of a lot of people to that WC was so funny. They couldn't stand the thought that their beloved football countries were being ground into pulp. "This is the competition of bad football", they whinged. Well screw you, deal with it.
Francisco said:
Makaay played.
Nutcase said:
Yeah, y'know what's not right? The big teams are a bunch of arrogant lazy cocksuckers depending too much on set, predictable tactics. That's what's not right.
Me too. Bergkamp ruled, but the problem is that we don't have the players for them. Or at least the players won't work well together. Bah.
I'm hoping Co Adriaanse will become coach. That guy rules. Plus, a lot of "oldies" will retire, changing the game a lot. Stam, Overmars and De Boer are all out and I'm betting some others will retire as well. This leaves room for people like Heitinga, Bouma and Robben.
Too bad Seedorf will probably stay. The guy has great potential, but he fucks it all up in the Dutch team.
Hmm.
I did, stupid of me. Kick out Robben, then.
But RObben and Ronaldo (not Ricardo, tsch) are two different players, Robben uses passes and movement, while Ronaldo uses some nice moves to get past a player.
And we Dutchies screamed "Go Hiddink" instead.
Francisco M L S G S
It Wandered In From the Wastes
It's just what I heard some time ago. The dream team had to be 4x4x2 but I could be wrong. Still, I think it's the best tactic for the dream team in the the way that includes more players in each position. Most teams play with 4 defenders so making a dream defense of only 3 would be very hard. Also, there were about 3 top goal scorers, choosing 1 would also be hard (even though Baros is the obvious choice here).
Portugal lost against Korea and the USA and deserved what happened. We had made a great EC before that WC and we went to Korea thinking we would rule. And we had the worst manager I can think of
I recorded that WC on VHS and I've been watching the highlights of the matches South Korea played. . . I respect your opinion but I still think you're wrong
And I don't think Portugal has been favoured this EC, tell me some occasions when that happened.
You know what I meant to say. He played but it wasn't enough time. As an example, Heinz from the Czech Republic (maybe some other team) deserved that dream team place more than Makaay, he was never on the starting team and every time he entered he scored. And we all know Makaay's much better than Heinz, but it's not who's the best player, it's who played better. Even Van Hoijdonk played more and better than him and Makaay's much better. If he had played in the first team with Nistelroy. . . but I didn't watch Holland's preparation games so I really can't comment on that.
Agreed. When the supposed "big" teams play against another "big" team, they are as good as them. But when they play against a supposed "inferior" team, they are even worse. Psychology. . .
Que? More players in each position? What, do people normally play with 9 players on the field then?
Again, that's bull. When choosing a dream team's strategy you need to look at the players, the qualities of the players and then decide based on that what the strategy should be. No coach, except Cruijff, ever goes with a certain system and never changes it.
Against the Dutch. Watch it closely.
Yep.
No, we don't. Heinz could very well be better than Makaay, you know.
Van Hooijdonk did not play more than Makaay. And he didn't play better either, he played differently.The two have a completely different style of play, Van Hooijdonk is very physical, while Makaay is much more mobile and looking for opportunities.
If he had played in the first team nothing would've happened. We've seen that in the preparation games, it doesn't work. Plain and simple.
Francisco M L S G S
It Wandered In From the Wastes
What do you mean? I meant that 4x4x2 was the most suitable tactic to include the most players possible in the dream team but . . .
. . . but you're right here. It makes more sense than the 4x4x2 theory.
That happens to be the only game I wasn't able to see. But I did see some parts of the game and netherlands was playing much worse than Portugal. You only started to play better when Jorge Andrade scored an own goal and still wasn't enough, I don't think the referee had anything to do with the result but I didn't watch it closely as you said.
And that's not enough to say that Portugal was tilted. If Portugal had been favoured in most matches then I would agree. But if it was only against Netherlands I don't think you can say it at all. Then almost every team was favoured in one or another match because every referee makes errors but it doesn't mean they are helping a team.
Well if he's better than Makaay he sure hasn't shown it in the last years.
Differently or not, he helped the team much more than Makaay. But you're right, they are both different but Van Hoijdonk and his physical playing style helped Netherlands achieving victory while Makaay with his mobility didn't find many opportunities and when he did he didn't made use of them.
In my opinion that's because both are trying to score instead of helping each other and the team. As I said, I didn't watch those preparation matches.