F3C - Fixing the Main Quest, a Discussion

Mikael Grizzly said:
Fix the main quest? Simple.

Add the option to join the Enclave after your reveal the Purifier code to the Enclave, so that instead of getting shot, Autumn gives you an offer you can't refuse.
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This would make the endgame battle much more interesting.

Instead of walking with Lyons' Pride while they kill the Enclavers, Autumn calls you to help him defend Project Purity. And then... Liberty Prime and the Lyons' Pride shows up, killing anything that moves. Now THIS would be a real final battle, the kind of final battle that forces you to use EVERYTHING you have at your disposal to fight the giant robot of mass commie destruction and the Elite BOS squad. That would be awesome.
 
Excuse me for the gravedigging and the double-posting, but this reply is in part made to bump this topic...

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I just had some ideas.

What about alternative solutions to the main quest? Its too railroaded. You HAVE to go with Lyons and Prime to kill all the enclavers.

Here are some examples:

Sneak character: Go into the Taft Tunnels, kill any enclavers on your path (Or not, if you are a diplo character with a enclave diguise, you could simply persuade the troopers inside that you are one of them, a sneaker could avoid them...), then pop into the Memorial and deal with Colonel Autumn and his friends though wits or guns.

Diplomat: Wear Enclave Officer clothing, and use your speech skills to convince everyone you are a officer and you are supposed to meet with Autumn on the purifier. They let you in and then you can deal with Autumn though wits or guns.

Scientist: Sneak though (or kill every enclave on your way), then nullify the forcefield someway, then enter and deal with Autumn as you will.

Enclaver: Join Autumn and help him repel the attack of Liberty Prime and the Lyons' Pride. Better prepare for extreme combat.
 
I would prefer if the stupid giant robot was removed altogether. Or at least never actually functioned. I'm not a big fan of giant robots in general, simply because they almost always just seem out of place. Liberty Prime was basically the thing that killed Fallout 3 for me. Sure, there was a lot that didn't make sense, and some aspects were pretty bad (almost every single piece of dialogue springs to mind here), but nothing makes me shudder more when I think of Fallout 3 than when I had to watch that 20 minute long interactive cutscene as I strolled leisurely to Project Purity while the robot did all the work for me. Giant robots also make me flash back to the end of Monkey Island 4. The last half of that game was complete rubbish.

So yeah, please get rid of the robot. I would like someone to rewrite the storyline completely, making it not such a lazy rip-off of Fallouts 1 and 2, although I realise that would be a lot more work than simply altering the current plot, and may not be possible. Could we please have a different enemy faction? The Enclave was cool and all in Fallout 2, especially when it was revealed that they were some secret government taskforce controlled by the president, but in Fallout 3 the mystery is all gone and they're just another enemy to blow the head off of.

On the other hand, I'm in two minds when it comes to dealing with the Brotherhood's presence. I quite liked the Outcasts splitting off from the DC Brotherhood, especially since the DC Brotherhood were so... good. It's sort of like when you meet someone who is just too nice. It's unsettling. I just wish the conflict was explored more in the game.

Mutants certainly need an actual point to their existence. They're the same as the Enclave: mindless enemies that exist simply to have their heads blown off.

Alright, I think that's enough babble from me. I ended up saying a lot more than I at first intended. However, I did have a thought on a possible alternative storyline, so I will finish on that. What if, instead of always starting in one of the control group vaults, the main character was in one of the vaults that had experiments conducted upon it? The story might start off with the protagonist waking up in an empty vault, or perhaps surrounded by crazy people, and he sets out to discover what exactly happened to them. Along the way at some point, his own craziness is somehow triggered, and that's when the player has the choice of fighting it, or going with the flow and becoming some sort of homocidal psychopath. First thing I thought of when I had the idea was the events in the Baldur's Gate series, so it would be sort of similar to that. Ideally, there would be no transformation into a weird daemon thing though.
 
apologies, i haven't had time to read the full thread.
but what about doing more than just cleansing the water.
instead of the hole death thing, you get to live.
new purpose, unite the remaining humans and rebuild DC

then have some kind of stalker style, join a faction, build it up, conquer/save/enslave the dc populous.

end game = controlling all of dc, be it with enclave, BoS, outcasts etc

get to choose a capital, destroy settlements/build em up

not sure if this would be way to much work though, or entirely fit
 
enderuk said:
one of the reason why FO2 is the best game ever is the plot.

You need a GECK, go find it.
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FO3 plot

You need your daddy, you miss him, then go find him :P And on the way, you can kill everyone in the Vault 101.
 
Public said:
enderuk said:
one of the reason why FO2 is the best game ever is the plot.

You need a GECK, go find it.
Click to expand...

FO3 plot

You need your daddy, you miss him, then go find him :P And on the way, you can kill everyone in the Vault 101.
Click to expand...

Yes, but Bethesda rather missed the mark when it comes to the dialogue... which is what made FO2's plot work so well.
 
We need an evil ending that isn't lame. Maybe something that involves going through Tenpenny, destroying the purifier for him because that means he'll have a monopoly on abundant clean water, and eventually killing Tenpenny and taking over his operation.

Just an idea.
 
I read 4 of the pages and only saw this implied so i will be exploit but it' a big spoiler.

The ending
[spoiler:485ff3cd0f] To quote something on an earlier thread back when F3 first came out allow Fawkes to go in the chamber since he's immune to radiation. We need something better than Fawkes is crazy yo or his fingers are too damn fat. [/spoiler:485ff3cd0f]
 
I never understood why Eden poisoned the Potomac to kill all mutants. Exclusing BOS and Outcast, no other faction or city in the wastelands would be a problem for the Enclave.

I think the ending would be better if it really came down to a massive Enclave attack on DC.
 
To the OP,

I am not sure the original main quest/campaign can be fixed, I myself have honestly given it a lot of thought and in order to 'fix' Fallout's main quest so much things IMO would have to be changed.

For example; instead of railroading the player, give him or her a lot more freedom to fulfill the main quest.

Why is the player forced to go to Tree Dog the first time to continue the search?
Can't someone else point the player towards Rivet City?

Finding Vault 112, why not visit the Vault-Tec headquarters or talk to Pinkerton for the location?

And so there are a lot more things.

There are so many half assed things that could be made better.

* True organization amongst the Super Mutants, a leader of some kind (personally I rather get rid of the SMs)
* Replace the Talon Company mercenaries with bounty hunters. Why would mercenaries want to hunt someone with a price on their head?
Instead a lot of different things could be done with them like for example hiring them to defend Arefu and Big Town.
* Real economy
* I am not a fan of the return of the Enclave, they were beaten, but if they have to be in this, replace those stupid little outposts with one or two real field bases consisting of tents for the soldiers, a command tent, field laboratory, a pen where they keep captured wastelanders (humans and ghouls), a couple of parked vertibirds, with those defensive structures around these bases around which Enclave soldiers patrols.
Perhaps Enclave fortifications around the purifier after they take the place over and not just on the end.

Ugh and so many more things.

Edit:

I honestly hate the idea of the purifier.
Many people here have explained how water could be cleansed of most radioactives without the need for a miracle machine.

Rather why not have James try to create a GECK as envisioned by Vault Tec; instead of a collections of blue prints, schematics, and chips to unlock Vault fabricator functions, a true terraforming device that will make the wasteland green again.

Or a way to increase a GECK's revivification capabilities.
 
Maybe, but the Enclave does seem rather intent on simply eradicating all traces of "tainted" humanity. A more viable solution is that instead of radiation poisoning in the water, use a biohazard chemical contaminant. There are several that are so hazardous that once introduced to water they are nearly impossible to remove - and still retain [most of] their toxicity. This also leads to the necessity of tinkering with the Radiation a bit. Such as receiving rads (slowly) just by walking around in the wastes poorly protected/'barefoot' as in previous games, and the addition of radioactive green sludge. There are quite a few barrels containing the stuff - it would make sense that one could blow them up and let the contents spill out... or in areas where such barrels are already damaged, add in pools of green goo. Ouch, that stuff burns. ^^
 
So much would have to be changed IMO to make the main quest fun or good that it would be easier to start completely over again.

Build up everything from scratch.
 
New plotline:

Key to the first two, the survival of your people (vault or tribe) depended on you getting them what they need. Its hard to come up with something new since food/water/basic needs were thoroughly covered. But I had an idea that may be a little out there; birth control.

Turns out there's only one thing to do in that damn vault. . .

So you've got a population problem. You need to let a number of people out of the vault, or kill them, and neither option is easy. Second, you need to find a source of birth control; ortho tricyclin isn't a popular wasteland drug, but maybe you can get one chemical from one place and another from somewhere else and find somebody to put them together. Or find a surgeon who can perform vasectomys, reversible 65% of the time.

By the time you get it, Raiders/Slavers start showing up at the vault and everybody needs weapons and training to hold them off. So, you get the caravans to start making rounds at the vault.

Then the Enclave has just come in and declared marshal law, taken everyone away because they need zero mutation humans for breeding stock to stay pure.

So you need the BOS to get them back, but BOS is in a civil war which you need to solve for them. The joys of being impartial and all that.

So far its still a rip off of the old fallouts, but what the hell?


Another way to go is to start off in a post-apoc city, rather than a vault or a tribe. Or start off a member of the enclave or the BOS.

Thats my brainstorm for the year.
 
Here's what i think we could do.

Same old vault escape crap but instead of being forced into megaton/3dog/ main quest.

Just get a quest that has no markers or anything that says something like "search the wasteland for signs of dad" and u would have to go to cities/town/any people you can find and ask them if they've seen anything.

That whole idea just hit me like a charging Super Mutant Behemoth so i thought id post it to keep the topic alive and stuff.
:ok:
 
If you guys are serious about this, please take heed to these posts I selected with all the Fallout-passion in me:

[spoiler:133e7bf951]ok, one of them is mine, but both hold undeniable truths you WILL agree with, I'm sure of it[/spoiler:133e7bf951]

Makenshi said:
See, if I never went out of my Vault/Tribe and then I'm sent of a vital mission out there in the dangerous and unknown post-nuclear wasteland, I think I should go ahead with two things in mind:

1. Go to places which locations, at least, are known to me
2. Go to places that fit my misson, not any random place all of a sudden

I know the games are not linear in the "I can go where I choose" aspect, but it IS somewhat linear in the logical sense, as presented above.

That's why in Fallout 1, I don't wander from the blindly to south or west: I head east, to the known location of Vault 15, where I suppose I can find a water chip to save my people; lucky, there is a village on the way, so I stop to know more about the world... etc etc.





Same in Fallout 2: Klamath to find Vic, Den to find Vic, period. Then I have options: in Den I learn that there is Vault City to the east, the most likely place ever to find the Holy GECK, and Redding to the south, where I have absofuckinglutely nothing to do as far as I know. I think you know where I go, for consistence'n logic's sake.





The point here in this long post, as you can guess from the images, is: why the fuck did Beth (bar being a shitty company with shitty developers) put so much places that have ZERO meaning for the plot?

I mean, nothing against having lots of places with nothing directly tied to the plot (find daddy lol), but it's unbearable that they're not even in the middle of my route, like Shady Sands on the way to Vault 15 or Modoc in the way to Vault City.

Sure, I can force my suspension of disbelief or whatever it's called and go to Arefu deliver that girl's letter, and find Big Town on the way... but FUCK! The quest in Big Town is not to beat raiders and save a girl (Tandi anyone?), it's to beat SUPER MUTANTS EARLY GAME and save a girl (Red... what a fantastic name...). Since it's an unbeatable quest, it shouldn't even be located here.

[spoiler:133e7bf951]LOL fact: I cheated with the console to test how tough the Jailor Mutant inside GermantownHQ was... it ALWAYS took two shots from the FatMan; no matter how many times I loaded and tried, one shot was never enough - he always kept at leats 5 of those litthe red HP bars. How can a living being survive a nuclear blast inside a closed enviroment, let alone the building itself, is a joke the universe shares with no one... as Deckard Cain would say: "It's unfathomable", whatever this word means.[/spoiler:133e7bf951]

Every place I visited in Fallout was in search of a water chip, and after I found it, the remaing places were all related to discovering/dealing with the mutant threath. All quests in these places were sort of "well, since I'm here..."

Every place I visited in Fallout 2 was in search for the GECK, and after I get it, all remaining places are related to finding where the hell was my people taken. All quests everywhere where, again, "well, since I'm here".

[spoiler:133e7bf951]Honorable mention: New Reno is a place I barely explored in my first playthrough maaany years ago, because there was no real reason to hang around in such a big place full of crime since my character was a "samurai-tan guy" and only quested in other places to help people, get info and a bit of much needed $$ and equips. I just delivered moore's case, got the purificator for B.Hills mine and bye bye Sin City.[/spoiler:133e7bf951]

In Fallout 3, the moment I discover "dad" went to Galaxy News in DC, it's there that I have to go, one way or another, not necessarily deliver a letter to the oposite side or make fool's errands for a girl who thinks she still lives in the 50's (all is nice to ms. smile ¬¬) and wants to write a guide to the wasteland.





I wish that there was a LOT more plot driven reasons to go to places in Fallout 3, not just a bunch of explorable places with no real logical reason tobeing searched for, plot-wise speaking. AND that DC were between mid-game and end-game location, since it's so fucking dangerous. And don't let me start on the subway-labirinth bullshit...
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Oerjeke said:
lmao said:
Another flaw is that you only get dialogue options about your father in places he's already been. You can't ask about your dad in Arefu, but you can in Megaton. Apparently you're partially psychic.

In Fallout 2 you could ask about the GECK everywhere and get dicked around by a variety of people in the process. Like the dude in Modoc who claims to know about the GECK and will tell you...if you help him. You can get him to chop off his pinky as part of the bargain.

In FO3, such an option would not exist. You'd probably only get GECK dialogue strings in Vault City and NCR.
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I hadn't thought of that before, but now that you pointed this out, I gotta say that I agree 100%

I was just playing Fallout and got the "Wanderer" random encounter (the guy you can ask directions from etc.) and never even realized that he could help you a lot with finding the water chip (assuming that you are smart enough to listen to what he says and askin the right things)

Anyway, my point is that the originals had these subtle little things that may not help a tiniest bit, or they could be the last clue you needed with a quest, but the always made the games feel complete and the game world alive.
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