Fallout 1 VS Fallout 2

[SquidWard]

The idea isnt a problem, quite the contrary, Chienese culture and factions based around the ancestor of the Chienese People's Army is completely in the lore and in the setting.

Who fills that role in Fallout 1? Because this is a comparison of 1 vs 2. 1 establishes the baseline, 2 tried to expand on it. Having 2 introduce Chinese culture and factions based on the Chinese People's Army and then saying it is completely in the lore and in the setting is just a slope to giving anything a free pass in other future titles. I really think the point stands that Fallout 1 established how the cultures and peoples of the Wasteland would look and behave and 2 just ignored a lot of that.

To me, Fallout was always wacky but trying to say its realistic or even tonaly very dark isnt even true, at the very least until you investigate the Mutants Army. F2 didnt had that gruesome part inits main quest like F1 had, and thats why most people assume that F1 is le dark and realistic post nuclear world. A really dark Fallout is Fallout 1.5, where there is child molestors, assholes all around and no heroes. Fallout 1 had things that actually balanced it out, it wasnt edgy or dark all the time, it knew it was a silly video game in a silly '50 uchronia but it also used enough dark elements to make it stick out from the Western Sci-fi setting.

Say Fallout isn't dark all you want. But most of us are probably referring to the atmosphere and I'd say that's a collective trait. It's not just one aspect. It's the mood set by the artstyle, the way people talk, the way people look, the story, the music, etc. It's not a Wasteland full of scum simply making the Wasteland a darker place. But by that metric of bad people = darker world, Fallout 2 would be the darker of the 2. I mean Borderlands has some fucked up scum in it and I can't really imagine people arguing it being a darker piece than Harry Potter.

Fallout also isn't really a '50 uchronia. It was the future as envisioned by people from the 50s where some aspects of culture remained from that time. It did not linger in the 1950s, it went on to 2077 and even beyond that after the Great War. Something Bethesda is often criticized for. It feels like everyone lived in a futuristic 1957 that was bombed 4 years ago. Fallout did not feel like that.

I really do enjoy Fallout 2 but I do have issues with the direction it went with Fallout in some aspects.

 

[John Cassidy Joestar]

Who fills that role in Fallout 1? Because this is a comparison of 1 vs 2.

If you only take what I wrote at face value, it doesnt fit with the subject, I was only expressing my opinion on a bad town with a good idea to another dude who talked about San Francisco, chill man .

Having 2 introduce Chinese culture and factions based on the Chinese People's Army and then saying it is completely in the lore and in the setting is just a slope to giving anything a free pass in other future titles. I really think the point stands that Fallout 1 established how the cultures and peoples of the Wasteland would look and behave and 2 just ignored a lot of that.

Well thats one way to see it, I rather see where the writer can evolve the story all while keeping some elements that made fallout good and make new things to make the sequel stand from their predecessor. The writers assumed that most of the good endings were canons, from here they told a story about people trying to live and expand in the wasteland rather than recovering from Nuclear Fire.
The Shis only exist here to answer one question "What about to the survivng Chinese who fought the war ?", and I think it actually fits what you're thinking about "How the cultures and people of the wasteland would look and behave".

It's not just one aspect. It's the mood set by the artstyle, the way people talk, the way people look, the story, the music, etc.

And Im not refering at one aspect either, and for all that Fallout isnt as grim as Fallout 2 per say. I'd even say they are pretty even, just that Fallout 1 made a better focus on mutation and fucked up things than Fallout 2 did, which like you said was more interested in expanding the world than making virtually the same game with the same atmosphere.

Fallout also isn't really a '50 uchronia.

Well its for simplification sake, not going into specific because it is both an uchronia and how the americans would see the future in the '50. I doubt they were that unoptimistic about the future especially after being one of the winners of WW2. Besides energy weapons and AI, they had limitations in computer tech and maybe in more areas. To put it simply, Pre-war Fallout boils down to the common imagination of Americans on the subject of what the future could be but with down to earth decision and realistic possibilities in the realm of Fallout's universe. Post-War Fallout could be divided in 2 parts, people recovering from this tragedy and then people living and making the best in the Wasteland but of course thats for the west coast lore, Im not updated with east coast lore and I dont care honestly.

 

[SquidWard]

If you only take what I wrote at face value, it doesnt fit with the subject, I was only expressing my opinion on a bad town with a good idea to another dude who talked about San Francisco, chill man .

And I was expressing mine? I don't understand how providing the context of the literal subject of the thread is me freaking out. I'm talking to you. I just don't understand where you're coming from fully with some of this.

And Im not refering at one aspect either, and for all that Fallout isnt as grim as Fallout 2 per say. I'd even say they are pretty even, just that Fallout 1 made a better focus on mutation and fucked up things than Fallout 2 did, which like you said was more interested in expanding the world than making virtually the same game with the same atmosphere.

Sorry but shamans with wild fever dream messages and ghouls joking about being dead and talking roboscorpions and plants that play chess, funny adult film studios, mage mutants, rat kings, and so on really kinda detract from that for what I'm sure is a lot of people. Psykers would have almost done this in 1 if it had not been for the fact that everything about them felt tragic and it lines up with the encounter with the Master. None of that is comical.

Well its for simplification sake, not going into specific because it is both an uchronia and how the americans would see the future in the '50. I doubt they were that unoptimistic about the future especially after being one of the winners of WW2. Besides energy weapons and AI, they had limitations in computer tech and maybe in more areas. To put it simply, Pre-war Fallout boils down to the common imagination of Americans on the subject of what the future could be but with down to earth decision and realistic possibilities in the realm of Fallout's universe.

Unless you meant it was a uchronia that started around the 1950s then I stand by what I said and we agree. But okay. I thought you were attributing the uchronia to being the 50s. If that's not the case, that's my bad.

 

[John Cassidy Joestar]

I just don't understand where you're coming from fully with some of this.

The part I quoted felt like I said something wrong maybe its the punctuation (in my country this type of punctuation with short sentences is mainly used to characterised bluntness so its maybe a misunderstanding from my part ), like I bringed something unrelated to the subject, which is kind of unrelated I agree but the other dude said something unrelated which I agreed with and developped a bit upon it.

Sorry but shamans with wild fever dream messages and ghouls joking about being dead and talking roboscorpions and plants that play chess, funny adult film studios, mage mutants, rat kings, and so on really kinda detract from that for what I'm sure is a lot of people.

Sure there is even more than that but let me remind you that in the first Fallout, you also got some Ghouls litterally acting like Romero's style of zombies, Mutants scratching their butts and sniffing their fingers as the standard animation for all Mutants, a group of people way too much happy in a library, dudes described as wearing mongolian/eastern type of armor but full of tires instead of iron, etc... My point is, F2 is like F1 but simply bigger and with a different focus. You have more jokes, more out of place elements, more worldbuildings, more characters, more joke characters, and so on... With more stuff you are bound to find more good things but also the same bad stuff but amplified. Imo, Fallout 1 was a "less is more" kind of game, and Fallout 2 is bloated to the point it lost the charm and simplicity of the first game.

My main problem with Fallout 2 is that it feels like a theme park (Redding being the Cowboys themed location or Reno being Noir themed, or wathever the mess San Francisco was. Just to name a few) it all leads to a game where it doesnt know what to be, its torn between expanding upon the foundation layed by Fallout 1 with its canon ending, and being a fun ride where you have enough time to do whatever you want. Where nothing is really in danger and saving the world is more on a to do list VS the urgency and real threat of the Master's Army dooming day by day the west coast.

I thought you were attributing the uchronia to being the 50s.

Haha not at all indeed, its more me who omited what Americans thought of the future because the world of Fallout is grounded in its universe and its also an inforgiving place, difficult to believe that Americans in the '50 would imagine such a world would be the future of the USA. But still the general style, design and architectures of different buildings, is reminescent of that.
So I took the term Uchronia, more in the form that a certain chain of decisions done after WW2 had important rippling effect that caused technological marvels, the world wide ressource war, a war who lasted 2 hours and the rebirth of civilisations out of the ashes of the past.

 

[Dotan]

Fallout 1 has a better storyline due to being concise in tone and having urgency in its main storyline

Buuuut as a whole package fo2 is EASILY the best out of them

Combat is much better in 2 due to ammo types properly working, better combat a.i for companions (alongside possibility to equip weapons at them) and better implementation for skill usage in combat (such as locking doors with lockpicking and using it as a tactical advantage)

It has better CnC, better dialogue quality and characterization, it has WAY more weapons than fo1 and its also better balanced when It comes to the skills

Quest design in both are great, but 2 often presents better quests.

The fact fallout 2 isnt nearly as much of a good karma centric game also helps.