SarcasticGoodGuy
*R O T T E N*
Has diversity gone this far? Are there really people denying basic science for the sake of adding more homosexual polygons in a video game from the 90s?
Fallout 2 heteronormativity
- Thread starter Cyberyn
- Start date
I understand that, but does "Virgin of the Wastes" not pummel you with heteronormativity?
Why is it there??
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
It was removed in the original version of the game(Which was a good move, because it's a really dumb reputation title). The reason you have that title is because the restoration patch adds it again.
But tbh, I don't see why your complaining about that title. If you haven't had sex, you are a virgin. That's kinda the definition of virgin.
Why is calling someone one hetronormative?
What the fuck does being a virgin have to do with heterosexuality? Can gays not be virgins now? Are you mentally impaired?
Also "heteronormativity" is just "normativity". You're not being "pounded over the head with it", it's simply just the way things are. Would you complain about the sky being blue "bluenormativity"? Homosexuality by definition is not a "norm". Sorry a game from the 90s didnt pander to less than 3% of the population
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Black Isle Studios were planning to make a Gay Pride Parade in Shady Sands originally.
Although looking at the cut dialogue from it, it seems like they were handling it kinda immaturely.
Although looking at the cut dialogue from it, it seems like they were handling it kinda immaturely.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Yea this is about the level of thought that goes into most of your posts.*throws an orange at him*
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
Why do you care? (If you genuinely do, for all I know this is just a wind up attempt.)
Alternatively instead of getting married why not lose at arm wrestling to Francis?
omphaloskepsis
First time out of the vault
I see this is a huge knee-jerk issue for you.
Mosuo
Hopi Tribe
Ede
...this could probably go into hundreds of examples
Read a book.
And how exactly did they prioritize reproduction? Lottery system? Spreadsheets? Agile processes?
You keep talking about biological facts and rules and priorities as if there's a formal governing system. There's not. Nature is messy. So is society. Sometimes general "truth" is good enough, sometimes the details matter.
Periods of upheaval bring out the diverse and the downright crazy. In some cases it's that people were always a certain way but afraid to act on their impulses. In other cases it's people just going with the flow. If a central society that steers culture breaks down, I think a lot of utterly RNG sub-cultures will pop into existence, and some of those will defy expectation and survive, for a variety of reasons.
Out of curiosity, and bringing back my original point. Do you imagine a post-apoc world to be Leave it to Beaver in leather? Would every group that formed be based on the same template, just with different hairstyle or outfits?
You seem to be confusing me with the original poster. I said I don't care about gays in Fallout 2. At the end I explicitly said that my point was that you'll see more fringe behavior in a post-apoc world.
Iroquois
Mosuo
Hopi Tribe
Ede
...this could probably go into hundreds of examples
Read a book.
I thought we were talking reality, not caveman cartoons here. Are we having two different discussions?
I generally agree, but you missed the point. Is it your goal in life to reproduce for the good of your community? Is patriotic reproduction a compelling motivation for the majority of a society?
Naive. Obviously biology plays a role, but social rules often override "common sense".
You're defining "fringe" according to your personal beliefs, and there's some alignment with the world outside your head, but it's shaky ground.
And how exactly did they prioritize reproduction? Lottery system? Spreadsheets? Agile processes?
You keep talking about biological facts and rules and priorities as if there's a formal governing system. There's not. Nature is messy. So is society. Sometimes general "truth" is good enough, sometimes the details matter.
I said that fringe groups will appear and you come up with "1/3 of the population will be gay". Seriously?
Periods of upheaval bring out the diverse and the downright crazy. In some cases it's that people were always a certain way but afraid to act on their impulses. In other cases it's people just going with the flow. If a central society that steers culture breaks down, I think a lot of utterly RNG sub-cultures will pop into existence, and some of those will defy expectation and survive, for a variety of reasons.
Out of curiosity, and bringing back my original point. Do you imagine a post-apoc world to be Leave it to Beaver in leather? Would every group that formed be based on the same template, just with different hairstyle or outfits?
You can only lose that virginity status/title if you engage in heterosexual sex, are you mentally impaired?
Nobody is going to make a character with an insane Charisma build just for that...
Extreme ignorance is pretty reaction provoking.
It'd help if you people would get avatars already.
So that's a no for successful ones that progressed past extreme primitivism?
Because so far all of those are Amerindian and East Asian tribes who never even developed their own language let alone became anything near successful.
Notice that they are now all ethnic minorities existing within other countries and in the case with many of them power has slowly reverted over to males such as the political happenings of Mosuo people. All this proves is that matriarchal societies don't work.
Don't move goalposts
Are you saying that in ancient tribal societies the men were breast feeding the infants while the women went out and hunted?
No of course you're not, you're just being pedantic about my example due to your lack of argument.
Women stayed back and took care of the homestead, men went out and hunted, where is your evidence to the contrary.
It's a biological compulsion to pass on your genes. Whether it's for the good of the community or "patriotism" (you do get your can care about your people outside of the state right?) it's a fact that every species on the planet had a natural inclination to further their own genes and their own species over others.
Right, I"m the naive one for believing in what science and the entire history of the human race has shown instead of vague beliefs that without social rules (despite Humans being social creatures) we'd all just go completely random and have no instinctual inclinations at all. I'm sure you have some kind of evidence to back your claims up besides the none you've presented so far?
Nope.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...b9f4b0-092f-11e4-bbf1-cc51275e7f8f_story.html
http://www.gallup.com/poll/158066/special-report-adults-identify-lgbt.aspx
http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.e...ple-are-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender/
And it really is common sense. If most people were gay, they would be significantly less people. You can't have booming populations like humanity has had multiple times over it's history if most everyone was gay and thus obviously unable to procreate. You're the one here attaching your personal beliefs to things by complaining about there not being enough of your preferred minority in a game.
Literally every poll and study ever conducted is a little more than "some alignment". Tell me, where is your evidence that the human race is majority homosexual or even just a large part? Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that homosexuality is totally common amongst the human population or hell to make it even easier the population of just one country?
By making it a cultural taboo to not take a wife and have children, have having children be considered praise worthy in their society, religion, social status and even some sort of financial or other benefit.
Yet male and female birds still make offpsring, male and female dogs will still make offspring and men and women will still make offspring. Nature isn't as messy as you make it out to be, there are still biological facts in place. Collapse of society will not suddenly completely alter what the majority of the species finds attractive since a lot of what most humans do find attractive comes from looking for specific traits that will be good for the creation of offspring. Breast or hip size etc. You're trying to make the argument that heterosexuality is primarily a social construct and without society humans will just immediately and radically change their sexual appetite so to speak.
Well the complain that OP was bringing up was that there weren't enough homosexuals even though they would be a fringe group and there already are references to homosexuality in the game but apparently not overt enough for him (whom I thought was you at the time).
Also it's called hyperbole
Read a book. ;^)
Except history proves the opposite. The cultures to thrive have been primarily "heteronormative" patriarchies and the species to survive have all continued to be "heteronormative".
Kangaroos and bears don't have complex central society yet (pardon the pun) there seems to be a lack of gay bears hanging around? Don't see a lot of Kangaroos strolling around in leather chaps. It's almost as if heterosexuality has a biological and instinctive incentive and it being the majority sexuality of literally every species ever isn't a societal creation.
No, but they'd resemble early ancient civilizations that thrived that were "le heteronormative" patriarchies.
Is losing that literal pointless flavour text status that wasn't even in the original game forced on you? Is it riling up your autism that bad that an old computer game is calling you a virgin?
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
You can lose your virginity to Davin if I'm not mistaken.
Besides, why does it bother you so much? There are no negative downsides to the title.
Ah, the old "homosexuals are denying science because reproduction" argument.
Well if homosexuals are "unnatural" because they don't have kids, then celibate people are unnatural. People who decide to wait until they get on the property ladder are unnatural. People who use contraception are unnatural. People who don't start forcing themselves on girls when they first start to bleed are unnatural. We, as a society, should clearly be doing all we can to make sure the maximum number of babies are born, and nothing else!
Well if homosexuals are "unnatural" because they don't have kids, then celibate people are unnatural. People who decide to wait until they get on the property ladder are unnatural. People who use contraception are unnatural. People who don't start forcing themselves on girls when they first start to bleed are unnatural. We, as a society, should clearly be doing all we can to make sure the maximum number of babies are born, and nothing else!
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Fair enough.
You realize that people do this so that their children have the best chance of surviving and prospering? So no, this is not unnatural.
I know.
Again, having a child only helps when you can actually get that child to survive and prosper in society.
Really? So the only reason my girlfriend and I don't have kids now, at the age of 29, is because the kids would have a better chance of prospering if I wait a little more? Nope, it's because we have things we'd rather be doing than raising kids at this stage of our lives, even though we are physically and financially capable of supporting several by this stage.
Okay, so why is smething that is "unnatural" also wrong? It's very natural to shit in the corner of a cave and die of septicemia at the age of 24.
Unless that child is homosexual. Then they're fair game for abuse.
Jogre
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Mate, nobody is arguing that.
Homosexuality is perfectly natural, it's just not very common.
Nobody has said it in as many words, but Vergil's spiel about "It doesn't matter if it's at a state, tribal, or simply animalistic level. We all have an innate pull to continue on our lineage unless we have some sort of defect." just screams it.
Basically.
I'm merely stating the objective fact that they're are a tiny minority of the population and exclusive homosexuality goes against the biological impulse present in every species still alive to procreate. Whether you want to turn it into a bigger argument about whether it's unnatural or not is up to you (not that I care to have it).
They're denying a basic biological instinct. For what reason could be highly variable from person to person.
No, they're actively taking steps to secure a better life for their children so really this doesn't really help your argument at all.
Consider extremely young girls like that aren't physically or mentally mature enough to be good mothers, no it isn't.
Just like how it's not strange to not want a 43 year old wife because her eggs are likely going to produce some genetic defects because of her age.
>society
Here we go again.
I'm not saying we need to get the breeding farms goin, I'm saying it's a biological impulse to make children and in a post apocalyptic world where the population goes from the multi-millions to the thousands people in a instant, might put some importance on not going extinct or at the very least, follow the same biological urge we've (and ever other species) had since the beginning of time.
I'm not sure you've got a very good understanding of the word "natural".
Oh shit that's epic dude. Hey real quick, could you find where anybody in this thread said that so I can screenshot it and show the guys in my gay extermination squad?
Like I said before, any conclusions you draw from these basic facts are your own. I'm merely saying that had an innate, instinctual level, all species, have a pull to produce offspring and continue on their genes. This is an undeniable fact! I mean what evidence to the contrary do you have? You can name some examples here and there of people going against this but I could also list examples of people killing themselves, doesn't mean we don't normally have a compulsion to survive.
Your posts so far reek of implied (and outright stated) accusations that I (or @Dr Fallout who is a friend of mine whom with I frequently banter with) absolutely hate all gay people and think they're an unnatural blight on the species who should be ridiculed, abused and even removed.
Something I find absoutely amusing considering I'm bisexual with a strong preference for men and have probably the faggiest avatar on this website rn. However just because I like and prefer men in a sexual and romantic way doesn't mean I'm just going to close my eyes and deny that by every metric imaginable, I'm an abnormality.
It also doesn't mean I'm going to have a shitfit every time a game doesn't specifically tailor itself to my tastes when I'm a literal fraction of the population demographics and possibly an even smaller fraction of their audience. The extreme "le diversity" pandering in most games and TV aren't winning any praise from me either.