jack_of_shades
First time out of the vault
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useless post
See, New Reno is an excellent roleplaying town with quite a few decent quests and possibilities. However, basically none of it actually fit the Fallout universe. Organised mafia families (four of them, even), a porn studio, bouncers with tommy guns, it's all completely unfitting.LinksBoxers said:New Reno....though I live in Reno, but that's besides the point.
I like the messed up, drug infested, whore littered, gangland scene to tell you the truth.
For far as political power, I like the Wright Family, but it's kind of a bitch compared to the other gangs.
The Enclave contacted them, probably, to get a hold of chems. The Enclave did go out of their way to keep it secret, because they went to a deserted bit of desert where no-one ever goes (because, face it, what kind of dumbass kid would go travelling, alone for several miles in a scorching hot desert?)jack_of_shades said:It has been bothering me that there is indeed some simple and fundamental point about the New Reno lazers being a proof of Enclave secrecy issue that I've been missing and I think I've now got it.
The only measure of secrecy that the Enclave showed in this whole affair was landing their vertibird a mile or two outside New Reno ( close enough for a 5~10 year old to get there and back without getting lost/discovered/seriosly dehydrated or being gone long enough for his adult siblings to notice and question him { and hence discover about the whole thing themselves } ) rather than in the Salvators parking lot.
Smugling the chems the Enclave needed out of and the lazers they brought into New Reno without anyone following or noticing and making sure their guards keep silent about it, all this goes to the credit of the Salvatores to whom the secrecy of the whole thing is a hell lot more important because insofar as i understand the Reno power structure, without the lazers the Salvatores go all the way to the bottom bellow the Wrights.
What I can't at the moment account for though is how did they get into contact with the Salvatores in the first place...
Which should be proof enough of them being secretive, since they did have contact with New Reno (discreetly, as you yourself said), but no one finds out. Unlike the Brotherhood, they are involved in New Reno.Sort of what I was aiming at,the Brotherhood is a well known high-tech organization in NCR yet no one has ever heard of them in Reno because they never had anything to do with Reno, the Enclaves contact with Reno subsisted solely of the occasional discreet exchange with the Salvatores so there was absolutly no reason for anyone in Reno to hear about them.
Which is completely and truly nothing but conjecture. There is not a single basis in the game for this. Hence, it's just something you convolutedly (eblergh, English)made up to support your point. Remember Occam's Razor.To these two points my answer is one : the Mariposa excavation.
As a secret organization that doesn't want to mingle the Enclave could have made all thouse useless PA bums you see sloshing around the oil rig get of their lazy buts and go do some digging.
Instead they chose to use local labour ( not entirely local too since Melchior was from Redding ), this would suggest that when they first arrived at San Fran and had a few dozen Shi bottomfeeders just begging to scrape their decks 'till they shine the Enclave pioneers to this foul new old land might not have found the prospect entirely objectionable.
All of this is useless conjecture as well. They could just as well have manufactured the Navarro base themselves with the tons of equipment and manpower they have aboard the oil rig.Also, do remember that previously to the activation of the vertibird facilities in Navaro the tanker was the enclaves only line of communication with the mainland.
Seeing as it is unlikely that the Enclave could scavage all they need for a high-tech military base from the Navaro area, it is likely to assume that they had to haul quite a bit of equipment overland from the docks in San Fran, in addition to this the construction of Navaro itself would also require quite a bit of menial workforce.
On top of that, prior to the vertibirds the Enclave would have quite a bit of trouble bringing in local workforce from outside San Fran ( most of the small settlements where you can go freely kidnaping people without anyone taking much notice seem to be to the far north in the Aroyo/VC/Redding area).
If they arrived at Navarro, which is a desolated place, and built a base there, then there was a base created as soon as they landed. Which is pretty likely.As per my point above there was not a huge(?), highly secured base when the Enclave first arrived,
That's completely unlikely since we have no reason to assume that they need a base in the first place, nor is there any mention of an Enclave in the whole of San Fran. I'd think that they'd at least get mentioned if they had had a base of operations and left a wealth of equipment.farthermore ere Navaro coming online the Enclave were still liable to need some sort of a local base of opperations and it is not unthinkable that they made some minor base in San Fran and then left some of the equipment there when they departed.
Your point being what, exactly? People deserted the Enclave. Hurray. Now what?what's more, let us not forget the runaway scientist, the antimutation serum researcher in NCR and the Valdez captain that would suggest some of the Enclave citizens getting the idea that if they nick and sell some of the high-tech equipment they have access to they could have a darn good lifestyle in the outside world.
See Mikael's excellent post. Add to that the fact that the Brotherhood had a room full of materials, including Power Armour.After many long decades of combat ( I think that it's the nameless guard beside Cabbot who tells you that the Brotherhood was and still is quite frequently assaulted by outsiders seeking to steal their technological secrets ) and the occasional desertion ( the ones who left for the Glow, Jacob .. it would be quite rare since the paladins are the elite force of the brotherhood but once in a decade or two some overly young or overly old paladin would spend a few hours too many under the sun and decide to march off into the desert ), quite a few PA suits would get damaged beyond repair or lost.
If the Brotherhood was not capable of producing new PA suits they would have been a bit too short on PA to let you have one for saving an initiate and being a person of good repute or to disqualify a PA suit because one of its eye pieces looked funny and then letting you have it once you aquired some central part that they had a plenty of but required going past a lot of bureaucracy to acctually get.
Add to that the possiblity of the Shi getting hold of a PA manual or possibly even of some deserting scientist giving them actual PA schematics and you should see that they should have enough basis for developing their very own PA.
In case what you are pointing at is a lack of materials, I simply disagree, Redding and and Broken Hills would suggest that post war humans have rediscovered the concept of mining and San Fran is a big enough city for the Shi to be able to scavange enough material for a couple of PA suits.
Because gangs a la the Den do fit, but Kung Fu really, really doesn't. It just reeks of someone attempting to mesh in some Kung Fu movies he saw[. Completely ridiculous.The Den had gun gangs the Shi have martial art's gangs, what so wrong about that?
Silly and Unfitting, I probably wouldn't have bothered with this whole affair so much if it wasn't.
so long for now8)
I've read your post Sander, *Sigh*, I could probably go on for a while longer, waver by design or not your posts seem to be just a tad short of being a killing blow, guess you just like to see a newbie wriggle 'till you get a new one to play with.
Wiping out Vault-City is evil, regardless if they use light form of slavery.Which political power do you prefer?
I didn't include the Enclave because, although being commanded by the "President", has no contact with the rest of the territory, and is more focused on military actions to "cleanse" the wasteland.
You could select "New Reno" and pick one of the families, of course. Since, for example, while NCR and Vault City both intend to annex Redding, the Mordino Family is trying to conquer it using the Jet addiction problem.
I prefer NCR.
Gameplay wise, I always wipe Vault City clean(can't stand so much arrogance and self-centering, and for also *****ing on the poor ghouls), always help NCR out(although they play dirty with the raider assaults on Vault City - not that I care), and always help the Wright Family take over New Reno.
So, what's your opinion?
"Light form of slavery" is the best thing I've read in a long timeWiping out Vault-City is evil, regardless if they use light form of slavery.
I mean, they treat slaves well, from what I know, and even refer to them as "servants" maybe believing that they're doing a good thing, atleast they're not Metzger's slavers or Caesar's Legion."Light form of slavery" is the best thing I've read in a long time![]()