Fallout 2 mod Fallout 2 Restoration Project Discussion (ideas/suggestions)

SkuLL said:
lucas. said:
I wish RP had a hunger system optional.
Optional - sure. But it's a lame idea if you ask me.
Hm, i don't think so. With the hunger (or eventually sleep) system implemented, the wasteland will be more deadly place, as now is. Heh, the Mom's restaurant, or the Rosie's B&B will be very popular, with those features. :)
 
SkuLL said:
Optional - sure. But it's a lame idea if you ask me. It's not 'The Sims' after all... I just can't see how adding hunger would improve game play in any way. Just imagine having to carry numerous boring items like Iguana-on-a-stick just so that when the game asks you, you can click on them to eat them up. Pointless and boring. That's a degree of realism I'd rather not see in a computer game.

I completely disagree…I want a game that tests the limits of the character; this should be an adventure story where survival is paramount, and the “quest” secondary. In that world, killing for food would be considered a fundamental activity, then killing for loot – (that could be slaves, or weapons, or items, whatever). I hope Josan makes the mod and Killap introduces it into RP – as an option of course…we wouldn’t want to make the game too difficult. :wink:
 
Yeah...you are right.."Pixote"

As an option this would be a good opportunity against carrying too much weapons and ammo to reduce the case of hoarding items for reselling it later on to the merchants for money...
 
.Pixote. said:
I completely disagree…I want a game that tests the limits of the character; this should be an adventure story where survival is paramount, and the “quest” secondary. In that world, killing for food would be considered a fundamental activity, then killing for loot – (that could be slaves, or weapons, or items, whatever).
I know what you mean, but I don't see much progress in it. Suppose you're killing for loot - that loot gets more and more rewarding based on how tough it was to get it. You're driven to take higher risks for higher rewards, which ultimately drives the game forward. The items get more interesting as your character progresses.

Food scavenging would be great in the beginning of the game, but once you're at a later stage, running around with all kinds of expensive equipment, wouldn't it be a kind of nuisance to have to stop and stockpile the same Iguana Sticks you've been buing at a $5 each (or whatever) throughout the whole game?

EDIT: Of course, it would be different if the whole game was adjusted to it:
- Food shop in every town with interesting dialogues
- Various food related encounters in the Wasteland
- Bigger food quests ('Secure safe meat for Town' or 'Help protect farm and get food' etc)
- Food related Perks ('Cannibal' springs to mind) etc.

But as it is now, food is readily available pretty much everywhere you go. So by implementing compulsorry eating, you'd literally just be adding clicks to the mouse.
 
smilodom said:
Yeah...you are right.."Pixote"

As an option this would be good opportunity against carrying too much weapons and ammo to reduce the case of hoarding items for resailing it later on to the merchants for money...

The merchants is the Achilles Heel to the whole food chain idea. Eventually, the world will run out of food and everyone will starve, as the merchants reach a stage where they stop being functional as a point of commerce and become a point of storage instead. While ammunition can still be gotten off of desert encounter or random kills, the amount of food supply generated is nil. Once the game's barter system shuts down, so will the food chain, ergo end of game as the player will eventually starve to death.

The other issue I had wanted to point out was this "prime directive" of never violating canon in the RP. While I think faithfulness to an original idea is great, to slavishly follow it at the cost of all innovation may be, IMHO rather counterproductive. Having said that, the idea of a food system has merit in so far as introduction of another strategic game play element. Like someone mentioned, this makes it a bit more like the Sims. Would that make the game better? It certainly would for some players, but I'm sure that there would be just as many who would hate it.

And let me clarify, I wasn't actually "complaining" about having to carry ammo, but rather alluding to the fact that there are major game considerations to be taken based on weapons choice vis a vis ammo availability, weight, and effective operations. That's why a weapon like the Gauss rifle is a rather damned if you do and damned if you don't consideration, as ammo is so rare, and heavy as hell. If there was another game option for player sustenance, would there be variations in the weight v nutritional value ratio? What about some foods like carrots which can enhance eyesight; would you be a better shooter? How about gastroenteritis food poisoning if you ate the wrong thing, and it say, saps your strength for -5 for 48 hours like irradiation or rad scorpion poison? Further, combat actually saps strength. Real soldiers' caloric requirements actually increase tremendously while they in combat situations; should we replicate that element too?

Game play can be tremendously difficult already with what we have. I had simply hoped for being able to find more random encounters within the game's constraints. However, if someone wants to expand and change the game entirely by adding another strategic logistical element, then IMHO this would entirely throw out the whole RP prime directive of remaining true to the developer's intent. IMHO, other than using iguana on a stick to get dogs to like you, there isn't any other real use for food in the original game.

Speaking of which, since everyone sells iguana on a stick; why are there no iguanas in the game? Do they come from some iguana commercial production plant? That leads into another game play possibility; farming or hunting food. And no, that's not canon either.

What about for the evil doers who want to really role play? Like Skull alluded to, do they kill people and eat them too, as people are much more plentiful and there aint' an iguana stand anywhere in sight?

Or should it be like an arcade shooter, where one bite of any kind of food (which is also weightless like nuka cola or beer bottles) would carry you through, say... 72 game world hours regardless?
 
ralphrepo said:
Speaking of which, since everyone sells iguana on a stick; why are there no iguanas in the game?
Because they've all been put on sticks! :roll:

Seriously though, I agree with what you've said. Just because eating is 'realistic' doesn't mean that adding player hunger makes the game more realistic (or fun). You'd have to add a whole lot of facilities and resource management to make it work, which is probably why the developers left it out.

I'd much rather see some sort of drug related resource - trafficking, expanded addiction, quests, etc. But alas, adding a whole new resource is not simple and not along the lines of what the developers wanted and, as such, not part of Restoration Project. Great 3rd party mod, but not RP material.
 
SkuLL said:
ralphrepo said:
Speaking of which, since everyone sells iguana on a stick; why are there no iguanas in the game?
Because they've all been put on sticks! :roll:

Seriously though, I agree with what you've said. Just because eating is 'realistic' doesn't mean that adding player hunger makes the game more realistic (or fun). You'd have to add a whole lot of facilities and resource management to make it work, which is probably why the developers left it out.

I'd much rather see some sort of drug related resource - trafficking, expanded addiction, quests, etc. But alas, adding a whole new resource is not simple and not along the lines of what the developers wanted and, as such, not part of Restoration Project. Great 3rd party mod, but not RP material.

Well, you know, the end game of eating is...

So, will there be a lot more toilet facilities in the game world? What about merchants, will they start selling toilet tissue too, LOL...

Will you take hits if you can't poop? What about explosive diarrhea? Where can we get an antidiarrheal?
 
SkuLL said:
ralphrepo said:
Speaking of which, since everyone sells iguana on a stick; why are there no iguanas in the game?
Because they've all been put on sticks! :roll:
No, they are hidden under the rocks. :look:

For "speedrunners", who play 24 hours of every day, chasing the food may be frustrating feature. But if you play 30-40 minutes daily, food may be great improvement - dude will eat some iguana bits, he'll shoot some raiders in the wasteland, then returns to the city and visit some brothel before sleep.

With optional installer, why not?
 
valcik said:
For "speedrunners", who play 24 hours of every day, chasing the food may be frustrating feature. But if you play 30-40 minutes daily, food may be great improvement - dude will eat some iguana bits, he'll shoot some raiders in the wasteland, then returns to the city and visit some brothel before sleep.

With optional installer, why not?
For sure. After all - optional new content is always a plus. As people have said, it could make a great mod (provided it would be more sophisticated than just a new 'Eat something or die' option).
 
Food and water just for its own sake wouldn’t be satisfying without clever ways to build food and water into the storyline, and game mechanics. Every town well would require scripting for the PC to refill their water container…and over time your food/water would naturally decrease, until you have none and you die. Obviously slavers and merchants would also need to carry water, so the choice in an encounter is either buy or kill for that water. Currently the only time the player engages with any form of strategy is when they engage in combat, but adding the need for a water strategy between travels would be exciting IMO…

I personally love the idea of cannibalism in Fallout – with the consequence of a massive hit on karma and reputation – who enjoys the company of a cannibal. There is already a pretty good perk picture for the role…:twisted:

repbrsrk000000.gif
 
What about for the evil doers who want to really role play? Like Skull alluded to, do they kill people and eat them too, as people are much more plentiful and there aint' an iguana stand anywhere in sight?
Hm, iguana bits are very universal - usable even for the cannibals. Dr. Morbid from the Junktown can retail. :)
 
.Pixote. said:
Food and water just for its own sake wouldn’t be satisfying without clever ways to build food and water into the storyline, and game mechanics. Every town well would require scripting for the PC to refill their water container…and over time your food/water would naturally decrease, until you have none and you die. Obviously slavers and merchants would also need to carry water, so the choice in an encounter is either buy or kill for that water. Currently the only time the player engages with any form of strategy is when they engage in combat, but adding the need for a water strategy between travels would be exciting IMO…

I personally love the idea of cannibalism in Fallout – with the consequence of a massive hit on karma and reputation – who enjoys the company of a cannibal. There is already a pretty good perk picture for the role…:twisted:

repbrsrk000000.gif

You're right in that it would be an exciting addition. However, then it wouldn't be fallout2 according to the developers intent. Granted, this "developer's intent" thing can be so much excess baggage, IMHO, but since the writer and coder for the RP (Killap) seems to be of a philosophy that we need to stick to such a mantra, then any ideas that change the game as drastically as eating other people would naturally be off the table.

I for one wish that Killap would just forget about the whole restoration "according to what a few guys who no longer have anything to do with the game thought of ten years ago," and instead give us a whole new FO2 world. New vaults, new creatures, new ideas like food and drink; cannibalism, rape, buying and selling people, joining the enclave or becoming their enforcer, et cetera. The game wants you to end as a nice guy by rescuing your village, but one should have the option of selling them out to the enclave for title, position, sex, whatever.

But again, that would be a whole new game.

valcik said:
What about for the evil doers who want to really role play? Like Skull alluded to, do they kill people and eat them too, as people are much more plentiful and there aint' an iguana stand anywhere in sight?
Hm, iguana bits are very universal - usable even for the cannibals. Dr. Morbid from the Junktown can retail. :)

Nah, it's simply easier to eat what you kill.
 
Would people object to the Vault City turrets attacking them if you engaged in combat in VC…the developer never intended for it, but it sits comfortably within the logic of the location? Most mods are built on a sensible logic that doesn’t unbalance the games design…now if someone altered the weapons and the game became completely unbalanced – well then there would be good reason to be concerned. I say build all of the mods you can…test them, and let the people decide, some will survive some wont. Hopefully combat turrets will make to a future build of the RP. :wink:

yARnD.gif
 
Hmm...
I would still prefer a resting system over a food system. It doesn't have to be drastic, just a little fatigue penalty if you haven't rested in a while.
 
ralphrepo said:
Speaking of which, since everyone sells iguana on a stick; why are there no iguanas in the game?

[spoiler:ee4899931d]If memory serves me right, its alluded to that Iguana on a stick is actually dead guy on a stick in Fallout 1.[/spoiler:ee4899931d]
 
I for one would be happy if some one could just fix the death of the merchants' barter mechanics. Once the game progresses to a certain point, all the merchants become useless. They no longer have any new inventory, and only display what you had given them from your last previous trade.

I'm guessing the developers' figured that by that time, you would have gone to the enclave, beat the game, and there won't be any need to conduct further trades beyond whatever they had set the game at. This may have been their intent, but I think it's rather inane as it then cripples the economics of the game.
 
.Pixote. said:
Would people object to the Vault City turrets attacking them if you engaged in combat in VC…

I would most definitively not object (in fact, you should make them difficult to destroy!) :ok:

.Pixote. said:

Very nice!!
 
ralphrepo said:
I'm guessing the developers' figured that by that time, you would have gone to the enclave, beat the game, and there won't be any need to conduct further trades beyond whatever they had set the game at. This may have been their intent, but I think it's rather inane as it then cripples the economics of the game.

I don’t think economics was a priority for the developers…less is more. Less items, less money, and more struggle IMO…
 
.Pixote. said:
ralphrepo said:
I'm guessing the developers' figured that by that time, you would have gone to the enclave, beat the game, and there won't be any need to conduct further trades beyond whatever they had set the game at. This may have been their intent, but I think it's rather inane as it then cripples the economics of the game.

I don’t think economics was a priority for the developers…less is more. Less items, less money, and more struggle IMO…

I agree with your assessment, that the economics in all probability, wasn't the top of the agenda with the original plans for the game. However, to just have one entire tier of game economics all of a sudden stop functioning seems more of a bug than developer planned obsolescence. It smells more like a design oversight IMHO.

In line with your suggestion regarding the VC turrets; I also agree that they should have active tactical consequences. There should also be ways for the player to neutralize them by electronics (since they're computer controlled instead of manned), disable their coolant system so that they overheat and explode (but after firing a few shots first) or hack them and redirect their fire against other turrets or VC's defense force. There should also be ways to tunnel underneath and mine them with explosives (a la WW1). The tactical possibilities are endless. In such a way, the game universe remains the same, however, the game play itself becomes tremendously enriched.

On another note, I wonder why there aren't any patrols by the Shi in SF? I mean, there are the Hubs and assorted gangs. Given the fact that the Shi had become a cohesive and tangible community with pretty extreme weapons, why aren't they a bit more martial in their set up? Considering that they're surrounded by gangs and armed Hubologists, they seem rather unsophisticated in their overall defensive posture, IMHO. At a minimum, you figure they would have at least a manned bunker or two by their entrance?
 
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