Fallout 2 mod Fallout 2: Weapons Redone v2.3

It wasn't for you Magnus, just I think it is bs to call the TAC-50 a 'regular' sniper rifle... even from the mouth of an omnipotent moderator...

Good evening.
 
Damn this thread changes fast. I'm still playing with 0.9 so my observations might be outdated now.

Anyway, I noticed that I'm pretty much invincible against arms that use 5mm JHP/AP, 10mm JHP/AP, .44 JHP/AP, .45 when wearing Metal Armor MKII. Shotguns, 14mm and .223 FMJ do little to no damage at all, The only real damage reducing perk my char has is Toughness (1).

If any of the NPCs wear the Metal Armor MKII, they receive more damage than I do. So straight to the point: Is the Toughness perk that good? I remember it having almost no effect without your mod.
 
Bulletmachine said:
Damn this thread changes fast. I'm still playing with 0.9 so my observations might be outdated now.

Anyway, I noticed that I'm pretty much invincible against arms that use 5mm JHP/AP, 10mm JHP/AP, .44 JHP/AP, .45 when wearing Metal Armor MKII. Shotguns, 14mm and .223 FMJ do little to no damage at all, The only real damage reducing perk my char has is Toughness (1).

If any of the NPCs wear the Metal Armor MKII, they receive more damage than I do. So straight to the point: Is the Toughness perk that good? I remember it having almost no effect without your mod.
Click to expand...

Errr... what does the Toughness perk do again? :oops: If it adds DR, then yes, Toughness should have better effect against JHP ammo than in default FO2, but it should work like default against other types of ammo, and it should do little to reduce damage from AP ammo until you're wearing Combat Armor and above. I have not changed the damage modifiers of shotgun ammo, 14mmAP or .221 FMJ at all, nor have I modded the normal damage resistance of Metal Armor MkII, so to me it sounds like it's the Toughness perk that's doing it. I stormed Darion's lair wearing Power Armor yesterday, and his goons did about 3-9 damage to me when bursting 5mmJHP with their Assault Rifles. When they reloaded them with 5mmAP however, they started doing about 20 damage each burst, which took down my life fast. This was without Toughness, so perhaps it really is a supergood perk.

By the way, there is nothing stopping you from downloading v1.2, installing it and loading up your old saved games, you do not have to start a new game for the changes to take effect. v1.3 should be out somewhen around wednesday, it includes some changes to the melee weapons and the HKP90c using 10mm ammo again. Hope you find out what's making you so strong, and that you like the rest of my mod! ;)
 
Ah, thanks for the input. I'm playing with 1.2 now and I'll keep an eye open about the Toughness perk.

It makes loads of fun to play this mod since it adds a serious chunk of difficulty to the early stages and gets harder later on :D
 
Bulletmachine said:
Ah, thanks for the input. I'm playing with 1.2 now and I'll keep an eye open about the Toughness perk.

It makes loads of fun to play this mod since it adds a serious chunk of difficulty to the early stages and gets harder later on :D
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Agreed, I just barely managed to beat Metzger right now (without locking doors) and I have Vic, Sulik and Cassidy with a 14mmPistol (which now does wicked damage), a 10mmSMG and a HK CAWS, I myself am carrying a bunch of Grenades and Sharpened Spears for throwing/thrusting. I tell you, those Grenades are life-savers. I've tagged Throwing, so my Small Guns skill is only at around 60%, but now it's actually possible for me to win using only Melee and Throwing, even to have fun with it! Nothing like chucking a spear for 10 hexes and watch it impale a Slaver with a critical :wink: The guys at the Slaver Camp still give me trouble with their Assault Rifles, though. Time to find a Ripper and tear through their Metal Armor!

In v1.3, sadly, the Mauser and the .223 Pistol will no longer be switched, as this led to the .223 Pistol that you found in Eldridge's locker being loaded with 9mmBall, which is just... blaaahh. To compensate for it being so common, the .223 Pistol will have a base price of 2300 instead of 3500 in v1.3. The Mauser will have the same stats as in v1.2, but with the low ammo availability it's just an extravaganza, albeit more useful than in default FO2. Oh, well.

In v1.3, Throwing Knives will do 6-9 damage, have a hit bonus of 20% and cost 3AP to throw. They will no longer Penetrate.

A thing that I've noticed is that if anyone uses Psycho, he or she becomes completely invulnerable to any kinds of JHP unless they are unarmored, and even then, it does almost no damage. This is because Psycho raises your DR by 50, and since JHP now has a DR modifier at 46 or 48, effective damage resistance tops 100% when the person is also wearing armor. They are still vulnerable to AP rounds, though. This also explains why Toughness suddenly has become goood shit against JHP.

I guess this makes Psycho an extremely potent drug, which in my opinion makes it worth risking the addiction. And since you never know when a thug might shoot some of it, effectively turning even the Magnum into a pile of failure, this adds some random danger into the game's fights, which in my opinion is good.

Imagine having slaughtered all of John Bishop's soldiers using your trusty Avenger Minigun, only to be forced to run back to your car and fetch some 5mmAP or a Flamer, in order to stand a chance against the one thug who turned into Obelix after taking a dose of Psycho! Or, like me, watching Sulik burst round after round into one of Metzger's Psycho'ed guards, doing absolutely no damage, until you flee to the West Side, give Sulik some AP ammo and return, finally capping the bastard :wink:
 
Magnus said:
I have Vic, Sulik and Cassidy with a 14mmPistol (which now does wicked damage), a 10mmSMG and a HK CAWS
Click to expand...

How do you stop them killing ech other? Is Sulik set to Charge!. I find that the only way to stop him Swiss-cheesing the other NPCs.
Also, Vic can use the 14mm?! I thought he didn't have the SMG animation, and I could never get him to wield it. That's news to me :).

Psycho's been a badassed chem since the game came out. I don't know if the RP fixes it, but last thing I heard, when one critter uses a chem it affects all of them on the map, which is... nasty.

As for Toughness, congrats on managing to accidentally improve a much-maligned perk.
 
Minigun Jim said:
Magnus said:
I have Vic, Sulik and Cassidy with a 14mmPistol (which now does wicked damage), a 10mmSMG and a HK CAWS
Click to expand...

How do you stop them killing ech other? Is Sulik set to Charge!. I find that the only way to stop him Swiss-cheesing the other NPCs.
Also, Vic can use the 14mm?! I thought he didn't have the SMG animation, and I could never get him to wield it. That's news to me :).

Psycho's been a badassed chem since the game came out. I don't know if the RP fixes it, but last thing I heard, when one critter uses a chem it affects all of them on the map, which is... nasty.

As for Toughness, congrats on managing to accidentally improve a much-maligned perk.
Click to expand...

Sulik and Cassidy are my tanks, set on Charge! and using Metal Armor. Vic is set to tag along with me, so he does fine with a Combat Leather Jacket. And yes, he can use the 14mm. He's quite good with it, too.

I have never experienced the drug mass-effect you're talking about. Perhaps it was a Fallout bug.

Another maligned perk that now is improved is Heave Ho, as it gives most throwing weapons a range increase of 6, which should better accuracy. Before, the perk did absolutely nothing. And by the way, Marcus is now the world's deadliest NPC when you load him up with Grenades and set his weapons preference to None.
 
Just when you think you fixed every weapon....
I've been playing through a lot of my current game with the Solar Scorcher. With the laser weapon fixes, this thing is devastating! Could I suggest knocking some points off the damage so it doesn't outpower the Laser Rifle? Say 20-50? I know it's a gimmick gun from a special encounter, but it could do with being dialed down a little. Not much, as it's got a massive drawback of needing daylight for reloading, but just enough that it's "heavy pistol" power not "rifle" power.
 
Minigun Jim said:
Just when you think you fixed every weapon....
I've been playing through a lot of my current game with the Solar Scorcher. With the laser weapon fixes, this thing is devastating! Could I suggest knocking some points off the damage so it doesn't outpower the Laser Rifle? Say 20-50? I know it's a gimmick gun from a special encounter, but it could do with being dialed down a little. Not much, as it's got a massive drawback of needing daylight for reloading, but just enough that it's "heavy pistol" power not "rifle" power.
Click to expand...

I will change its damage to Fire in v1.3. Good observation. I never found the gun myself, so I didn't think about it.
 
Fire? It's a prototype light-based weapon, not a flamethower. O_0 It appears to be a solar powered heavy laser from the description. Besides, I thought you said before that Fire damage automatically triggers the "flamethrower" animation not the "energy bolt" one. not to mention that Fire damage would make it rip through armor, giving it more power.
Of course ideally it would use a laser animation but Plasma death effects :). Something tells me that's probably not happening though :P

I brought it up because of the sheer power in my current game and the hope Killap may include it in the EPA instead of one of the endgame guns (someone else suggested it way back)
 
Minigun Jim said:
Fire? It's a prototype light-based weapon, not a flamethower. O_0 It appears to be a solar powered heavy laser from the description. Besides, I thought you said before that Fire damage automatically triggers the "flamethrower" animation not the "energy bolt" one. not to mention that Fire damage would make it rip through armor, giving it more power.
Of course ideally it would use a laser animation but Plasma death effects :). Something tells me that's probably not happening though :P

I brought it up because of the sheer power in my current game and the hope Killap may include it in the EPA instead of one of the endgame guns (someone else suggested it way back)
Click to expand...

I think the flame animation is linked to the Flamer bursting, the Scorcher would still fire a bolt if it did Fire damage. Most armors have higher resistance to Fire than Laser, so I figured it'd be an okay way to decrease its power. It's called a Scorcher, and from the description it seems to fire incredibly intense light that "fries anything to a crisp", but not laser. Also, wouldn't it be cool if enemies showed the "burning to death" animation when killed with it? Anyway, I'll test this before putting it in. There might be a huge bug with it, in which case I'll settle with lowering its damage.
 
Oh, Ok, sweet!
I just mentioned it because you said it happened when you set the Molotov Cocktail to Fire damage.
Forget that then. Guess I'm wrong. Or I just fear the flamethrowers a lot. (burstfire, dumb NPCs)
 
The Solar Scorcher Fire thing has been tested, and it does exactly what I hoped. Now, the Scorcher will do less damage to armored targets since most armors have higher Fire resistance than Laser. It will also create the cool "burning to death" animation when you kill something with it. Wikkiiid. I could give it laser boltfire and plasma meltdeath, but then I'd have to set it to do Plasma damage, which would be stupid. Besides, the Fire animation is much better.
 
Nothing else than kicking it up on FileFront and announce v1.3. Oh, and update the wiki, which is still at v1.1. Sit tight, fellas :wink:

EDIT: v1.3 is now out at FileFront, check the download link. It will be up here on NMA as soon as the admins notice my upload.


Changes in v1.3:

A reworking of the Melee weapons' stats has been done:

Blunt:
Brass Knuckles / 5-6 / 3 / none
Wrench / 6-9 / 3 / none
Club / 6-8 / 3 / none
Crowbar / 8-10 / 4 / none
Sledgehammer / 13-16 / 5 / Knockback
Power Fist / 14-24 / 3 / no longer Penetrate
Louisville Slugger / 20-30 / 4 / Knockback
Mega Power Fist / 25-40 / 3 / no longer Penetrate
Super Sledge / 30-40 / 5 / Knockback

Sharp:
Sharpened Pole / 3-7 / 4(5) / none
Knife / 3-7 / 3(4) / none
Spiked Knuckles / 6-9 / 3 / none
Combat Knife / 6-11 / 3(4) / none
Switchblade / 7-9 / 3 / none
Shiv / 8-8 / 3 / none
Throwing Knife / 6-9 / (3) / +20% to hit
Spear / 8-18 / 5(5) / none
Sharpened Spear / 8-18 / 5(5) / Penetrate
Little Jesus / 8-14 / 3 / no longer Penetrate
Wakizashi Blade / 7-12 / 3(4) / Penetrate
Ripper / 17-36 / 4 / Penetrate


The Throwing Knives get a 20% to hit because they are especially balanced for throwing.

Little Jesus is no longer throwable, because you might end up losing it in the woods and begin to cry like a little girl about it.

The HK P90c uses 10mm ammo again.

The .223 Pistol and the 9mm Mauser are no longer switched, because of an abomination that was the .223 Pistol being loaded with 9mmBall.

The .223 Pistol has a base sell price of 2300 instead of 3500.

9mmBall has a DR modifier of 15 again.

(3a) Solar Scorcher now does Fire damage instead of Laser, because the lowered laser resistances made it superpowered. It still does 20-60 damage.
 
Magnus said:
The .223 Pistol and the 9mm Mauser are no longer switched, because of an abomination that was the .223 Pistol being loaded with 9mmBall.
Click to expand...

This is unfortunate. I liked this idea. Is there no way to remove
the 9mm ball clip?

Magnus said:
(3a) Solar Scorcher now does Fire damage instead of Laser, because the lowered laser resistances made it superpowered. It still does 20-60 damage.
Click to expand...

Good thinking batman.
 
I don't rightly know what's causing the 9mm problem, but I think it's something like this: The map file for New Reno Commercial district says "whatever weapon is in that crate, load it with 9mmBall", and if I change the map file the mod goes incompatible. It is the same issue as the guard in Vault 15 who used to carry 9mm for his HK P90c until Killap came along. Some good news is that Duppo in NCR restocks about 100 rounds of 9mmBall now, so the Mauser isn't totally useless. Since it's one of the few pistols that cost 4AP to fire, it can be used effectively by someone with Fast Shot and 9-10 AP. I've reduced the .223 Pistol's sell price to compensate, but I still think it's shait, too.

(EDIT: I've got it! Since the only 9mmBall rounds in the game are in that crate, all I have to do is morph them into .223FMJ. Duppo in NCR should still carry 9mmBall, as those clips are technically morphed 9mm. I'd also have to switch the Mauser's default ammo to 9mm, to avoid it being loaded with .223FMJ, but in theory this should work. The .223 Pistol will then be lying next to a pile of FMJ, and the only sideeffects I can think of are that this will create two identical types of FMJ. This looks a bit weird, but since there are only 29 rounds of that "fake" FMJ available, you can easily sell it and use "real" FMJ. It looks better than a .223 Pistol with 9mmBall, at least. Mausers would also be common and useful again, since you'd still be able to buy ammo for them in NCR.)

I am thinking about swapping the Sawnoff Shotgun with the HK CAWS. Since they use the same ammo, this won't cause any problems. The only gripe I have about this is that the Sawnoff fits better in with Cassidy's general image than the CAWS, but since most players give Cassidy one of the 5 CAWSes they've been hoarding once they meet him, swapping them would not overpower the player, on the contrary, it would prevent the player from running into any CAWS-toting Slavers and thus he wouldn't become stinking rich so easily. If I did this, it would make Combat Shotguns easier to find than CAWSes, which is currently not the case, and it would give those rugged-looking Slavers a more appropriate weapon, the Sawnoff. Any comments on this?

(EDIT: It looks like some of Frog Morton's guards also use Sawnoffs. Since the rest of the guards are using Combat Shotguns and the man himself has a HK G11E, they wouldn't look too bad carrying CAWSes.)

I mentioned in an earlier post that Vic can use 14mm Pistols, which seems weird. This might be because I've installed the B-Team appearance mod that comes with Killap's RP, as I don't recall him being able to use them, either.
 
Yes, the B-team mod overrides that limitation with Vic, just slap some armor on him and you have the missing animations.

I like the idea of the .223 Pistol being unique again, though I kind of miss the "punch" it used to deliver since it doesn't ignore DT now.

The Shotgun idea is also nice, CAWS seems a bit high-tech for our ol' rugged Slavers.
 
I just installed, tested and observed the changes I was talking about. Here's how I reacted: "Awwwww yeahyeahyeahyeah..."

Because it works. The .223 Pistol is now located in Eldridge's crate again, along with 25 rounds of fake FMJ (which work exactly like real ones), of which 5 are in the pistol.

If you have real .223 FMJ in your inventory, the fake ones will stack next to them, and the gun will not reload with real .223 FMJ until you have jettisonned the fake rounds and manually put some real ones into it from the inventory screen. I suggest selling Eldridge his fake ammo back or just leaving all of it in the crate, if this anomaly bugs you.

One of the merchants in San Francisco might also have two similar stashes of .223FMJ for sale, depending on whether he sells 9mm or 9mmBall ammo by default.

To help you all distinguish real .223 FMJ rounds from fake ones, I've given the fake ones a damage modifier of 2/2, which is exactly the same as the real ones' 1/1, but looks different. The damage mod can be viewed in the trade window by binocular-looking at the ammo item, so you can avoid buying the fake rounds.

The CAWS will be switched with the Sawnoff. And since I'm such a great guy and the .223 is now unique, it will have Penetrate, default price and default sound. The big boom sound will be added once Killap releases v1.2 of the RP.

EDIT: Here it is.

Changes in v1.3b:

The HK CAWS has been swapped with the Sawnoff Shotgun.

The Sawnoff Shotgun does 19-24 damage.

12ga. Shotgun Shells have an AC modifier of -10 again.

The .223 Pistol and the Mauser are swapped again.

The .223 Pistol has its default perk, price and sound again. It was perfect from the start, just way too common.

9mmBall has morphed into .223FMJ, to fit with the .223 Pistol's placement. It has a damage modifier of 2/2, to distinguish it from the real .223FMJ.

The Mauser is now technically loaded with 9mm ammo, which has morphed into 9mmBall, which no longer exists in natural form. Phew.
 
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