Fallout 2 mod Fallout 2: Weapons Redone v2.3

A lot of good points have been made, I think it's time to close this discussion.


F2WR is nearing its final development stage. I've found myself spending more and more time on F2WB lately (link in my sig), and although I've got a few more weaponly changes left up my sleeve that I still want to include, I think the next version of F2WR will be a Final one. I encourage you all to really dig deep into the current version and see if you can find some things that still annoy you, so I can see if they also annoy me and change them accordingly. I personally am quite content, there are just a few things I'd put in the final at the moment, which is why I haven't released it yet:

The Sniper Rifle will have a hit bonus of 40% instead of behaving like the Scoped Hunting Rifle, since Mobsters who storm with them are currently unable to hit the broad side of a barn from the inside.

The Vindicator Minigun will have a base price of 14000.

Wakizashi Blades will have a max thrown range of 21.

Every single typo in the readme will be combed out.


When I'm done with F2WR, I'll continue with F2WB and also a project called Fallout 2: Items Redone, F2IR in short. I'm not going to leave the modding community just yet! :wink:
 
Some thoughts:
Re-setting the Plasma Pistol to 5AP has made it again less use than a good conventional pistol. Before, a Needler or 14mm was comparable due to the ammo bonuses giving them more single shot punch, but the Plasma Pistol got 2 shots a round.

Now it's neither rapid fire like a laser pistol or powerful like a Plasma Rifle. 4 AP fits with the style of the rest of the energy pistols. If it seems overpowered, reduce the damage a few points and return it to 4AP? After all you did improve the damage output and the AP cost. I used it as my main mid-game weapon as an ST4 diplomat char, and it never seemed overpowered. It worked out similar to the Magnum when you still had it at 4AP. Great for clearing critters as it could 1-hit kill many of them (although it was often a couple of points short of that on dogs), and an average gun against human enemies. It formed a good progression from the Laser to the Pulse pistol.

Changing the Laser Rifle req to 5 was a really good idea. It's a no-recoil weapon like the Laser Rifle, so shouldn't be one of the heavy guns. Makes it a good choice for an average char before they get Power Armor too. 6 AP is what you should need for Big Guns.

Removing Swing off the Cattle Prod doesn't strike me as that useful. I'm pretty sure Swing improves knockdown chance, so removing it reduces the options. Also if you're using it as an improvised weapon in the wastes, I'd assume you'd be using it any way you could, not just "fencing" with it.
 
Minigun Jim said:
Some thoughts:
Re-setting the Plasma Pistol to 5AP has made it again less use than a good conventional pistol. Before, a Needler or 14mm was comparable due to the ammo bonuses giving them more single shot punch, but the Plasma Pistol got 2 shots a round.

Now it's neither rapid fire like a laser pistol or powerful like a Plasma Rifle. 4 AP fits with the style of the rest of the energy pistols. If it seems overpowered, reduce the damage a few points and return it to 4AP? After all you did improve the damage output and the AP cost. I used it as my main mid-game weapon as an ST4 diplomat char, and it never seemed overpowered. It worked out similar to the Magnum when you still had it at 4AP. Great for clearing critters as it could 1-hit kill many of them (although it was often a couple of points short of that on dogs), and an average gun against human enemies. It formed a good progression from the Laser to the Pulse pistol.

Changing the Laser Rifle req to 5 was a really good idea. It's a no-recoil weapon like the Laser Rifle, so shouldn't be one of the heavy guns. Makes it a good choice for an average char before they get Power Armor too. 6 AP is what you should need for Big Guns.

Removing Swing off the Cattle Prod doesn't strike me as that useful. I'm pretty sure Swing improves knockdown chance, so removing it reduces the options. Also if you're using it as an improvised weapon in the wastes, I'd assume you'd be using it any way you could, not just "fencing" with it.
Click to expand...

I reset the Plasma Pistol to 5AP to fit in with the Plasma Rifles' new AP costs, since plasma takes a little while to heat whilst a laser or an electricity gun can be fired right away. I guess it's about as effective as a .223 Pistol now, having a shorter range, but doing more damage and dealing a damage type against which armors have much weaker resistance. I could set it back to 4 AP, though. I'm also thinking about setting the Magnum back to 4 AP, but that would underpower the Desert Eagle. Oh well.

I gave the Laser Rifles a ST req of 5 since they look much smaller and less bulky than the monstro-Plasma Rifles. Kinda like a Sniper Rifle compared to a Bozar. (An unrelated note: looking through the game files reveals that Laser Rifles were meant to have Burst at some point. This was probably changed when they introduced the Gatling Laser. I could give them Burst and probably make them really cool, but the thing is: they aren't broken as they are.)

If the Cattle Prod were meant to be used as an ordinary mace, it should be named Cattle Club and dispense normal damage in addition to electrical. To me, bludgeoning someone with a Cattle Prod seems a bit like poking them in the eye with a pistol, or dropping a Flamer hard on their toes, i.e. doing it wrong :wink: By the way, I don't think Swing is any less effective than Thrust when it comes to knockdown, I believe it's more a product of character ST and weapon damage. The Cattle Prod is deadly against enemies in Metal Armor, which is a common sight, so it's not a bad weapon in any case.
 
About throwing.
I tried to use it as my primary skill for ranged combat but found it not useful enough because of high AP needed to throw.
Damage is good and all but I think It would be nice to lower AP cost by 1. Then it would be more useful. Remember that by throwing you are getting rid of your weapon and you'll see that your knives get lost very often when you miss so It is very hard to play like that in a longer run.
With AP cost lowered It would be still very hard to play such character but not imposibile.
Oh, and I wouldn't change AP costs for granades because they are ok.
Magnus?
 
MACtic said:
About throwing.
I tried to use it as my primary skill for ranged combat but found it not useful enough because of high AP needed to throw.
Damage is good and all but I think It would be nice to lower AP cost by 1. Then it would be more useful. Remember that by throwing you are getting rid of your weapon and you'll see that your knives get lost very often when you miss so It is very hard to play like that in a longer run.
With AP cost lowered It would be still very hard to play such character but not imposibile.
Oh, and I wouldn't change AP costs for granades because they are ok.
Magnus?
Click to expand...

It's true, the Throwing skill isn't quite powerful enough to use as a main skill. It's not completely sucky, though, my current character has an FN FAL for practical self defense, and a bunch of Combat Knives for melee/throwing, since they require less AP to use than a gun and I only have 9AP, so they allow me to get more out of my turn.

I could reduce throwing cost by 1AP for all knives... I could do that. Y'know, it's not such a bad idea. After all, the Spears have the same AP cost for Throwing as for Thrusting. I'm only worried if Bonus Rate of Fire also works on Throwing weapons, but I don't think it does. Anyone think I should do this?
 
I actually went ahead and reduced the AP cost for Throwing myself because I plan to use it as my main combat skill when I get it high enough. Throwing pales in comparison to Small Guns already, plus thrown weapons can be lost (not to mention they weigh you down a lot more than one main gun). With all this against Throwing it just seemed too much that weapons cost that much to throw.

EDIT: Knives, I meant.
 
MACtic said:
About throwing.
I tried to use it as my primary skill for ranged combat but found it not useful enough because of high AP needed to throw.
Damage is good and all but I think It would be nice to lower AP cost by 1.
Click to expand...

I've been playing a throwing character also, and i think lowering the AP cost by 1 is *probably* a good idea. Like others, i've found the damage is much better, and also loosing the weapons under bodies and scenery a major drawback. But overall, it's still seems a weak weapon choice as the weapons really worth throwing (sharpened spear) are too many AP. But be carefull as i'm pretty sure fast shot DOES affect thrown weapons, so throwing Knives (i think) would get down to 1 AP - Lethal.

ALso - Is it my imagination, but in FO1, i seem to remember holding down a key would reveal every item with the coloured highlight. Is this the same in FO2?
 
BTW - is it normal that I can no longer thrust a combat\normal knife?

And, as Josan12 asked before me, is there a button to highlight laying items? In other Infinity games, like Icewind Dale, there was something like that.
 
Slightly off topic, but I always thought it'd be cool if ground items were automatically highlighted if you had a high enough perception skill.
 
^ That would make some things easier.


Question though, for anyone that can answer it, if I use the inventory editor to give myself a weapon, would they be the same as if I never installed Magnus' mod? Or are they automatically changed?

That probably could have been worded better.

Edit: Nevermind.
 
Magnus said:
I reset the Plasma Pistol to 5AP to fit in with the Plasma Rifles' new AP costs, since plasma takes a little while to heat whilst a laser or an electricity gun can be fired right away. I guess it's about as effective as a .223 Pistol now. having a shorter range, but doing more damage and dealing a damage type against which armors have much weaker resistance
Click to expand...

Not nearly as good I'm afraid. My current game has me with a plasma pistol, Sulik with a .223. Sulik always does 50-100% more damage per shot thanks to the ammo modifiers, regardless of armor, and the .223 has a 20% to hit bonus.
With 4AP it's about equal. Better against multiple lightly armoured foes due to 2 shots a round, a bit worse against heavy armour. With 5AP it's back to being rather pants. Might as well take a Needler or 14mm if you're ST4. Damage isn't much lower and you get a to hit bonus.I'd suggest playtesting it yourself against Dogs and then some armored goons.

That's why I suggested lowering the Plasma Pistol damage to nearer the original amount, and making it 4AP again.
Iif you increased Rifle AP cost , it may balance, but the real effect of AP cost is whether you get 1 or 2 shots a round. 4AP base cost gives the average char 2 shots. All 6 AP really means is you can't use a rapid fire weapon like the Laser Pistol to get another shot off unless you've got 10 AP as opposed to 9.

In the standard game, energy pistols (except for the 4AP Pulse) just aren't worth it due to the weakness compared to a rifle, with the energy rifles' 20% hit bonus and better power making up for the high ST. Unlike Small Guns, where some have 4AP but many pistols have higher base damage than rifles, at the cost of shorter range and no burstfire. Previously the Plasma Pistol was weaker than the Rifle, but a better weapon for dealing with critters or for weak chars than the .223.

Rebalancing the Plasma Rifle and Laser Rifle is nice, since as you get them both in the same general areas, there's no progression from one to the other, so the Laser gun as more of a light sniping weapon (range 45 compared to 30) is useful.
 
Plasma Pistols will have a lower AP cost and slightly lower damage, though still more than default FO2.

It is normal not to be able to Thrust with Combat Knives/Knives, as a weapon can only have two attack modes, one of which is now occupied by Throwing, and I felt Swing was more in tune with their appearance. Anyone in favor of setting both to Thrust?

All throwable knives will cost 3AP to throw. I'm not sure about spears, perhaps I'll lower their damages and set their attack/throw costs to 4AP. I know Fast Shot affects Throwing, but I don't think Bonus Rate of Fire does.
 
I think that Thrust is more apt to knives (and the animation looks better).

As for Throwing Weapons....maybe a reload for them (know it sounds ridiculous) - you know, you don't hold all of this in your hands, so you have to take another knife\grenade\whatever in order to use it...
 
Ravager69 said:
I think that Thrust is more apt to knives (and the animation looks better).

As for Throwing Weapons....maybe a reload for them (know it sounds ridiculous) - you know, you don't hold all of this in your hands, so you have to take another knife\grenade\whatever in order to use it...
Click to expand...

Giving thrown weapons a reload function would make them require some type of ammo, meaning that you'd have to have one type of Throwing Knife for the weapon itself and one type of Throwing Knife Ammo, and neither would work without the other... which would be extremely strange.

v1.6 is in the works. An update might be coming soon. Knife AP cost will be reduced, but not Spears, because that would upset the delicate damage/AP cost balance I've established.

EDIT: I've found a way to make the regular Flamer accept only regular fuel, and the Improved Flamer only Improved fuel. Because the game developers forgot to clean up after themselves, I was able to do this without breaking compatibility. The Flamers will have equal damage in v1.6. They will also have a bonus to hit, since you have to be blind or in the middle of an orgasm to miss with a flamethrower.
 
OK I had enough of this after I got my ass kicked by NEW RENO WHORES.

My team - Me and Sulik were dressed in Power Armors, Cassidy and Vic had Combat Armor.

Opposite Team - Mordino's Men, a Pimp, and last, but not least, 6 New Reno Prostitutes.

Having completed all Mordino's quests, I decided to put him out of his misery, so I cleared the upper floor and moved downstairs. I killed all opposition, plus some casino patrons and had one last Mordino guard to kill. He was on his way out of the casino when I send a bullet after his sorry ass, but unfortunatly, I missed. The bullet (shot from a FN FAL) hit the pimp outside. Sulik, which was heavily wounded during the fight finished the guard off, but I the prostitutes standing outside the casino moved in, charged by Jet. These women had knives. Knives and nothing more.

So let's keep the story short - after one of the whores threw a knife in me, which resulted in a critical hit for 30 points of damage, I was rendered unconscious for 3 turns. Next, Sulik was hit with a critical 3 times in a row and 3 times he landed on the floor. Hell, he didn't even manage to stand up after the first hit. Then, they managed to pierce (excuse me, swing) his Power Armor and stab him to death in merely 2-3 rounds. I could finish the fight and avenge his death, but I got pissed by the fact that unarmored whores with knives managed to kill a guy dressed in Power Armor, where 15 guys with machine guns couldn't!

I do play on Rough difficulty, but goddamnit, this is ridiculous. The frequency of very high critical hits is way too high.
 
Ravager69 said:
OK I had enough of this after I got my ass kicked by NEW RENO WHORES.

(...)

I could finish the fight and avenge his death, but I got pissed by the fact that unarmored whores with knives managed to kill a guy dressed in Power Armor, where 15 guys with machine guns couldn't!

I do play on Rough difficulty, but goddamnit, this is ridiculous. The frequency of very high critical hits is way too high.
Click to expand...

A regular Knife should not be able to damage Power Armor at all... unless you've set the combat difficulty to Rough or something :wink: I have not modded critical chance or damage at all, so this is Fallout 2 you should be mad at, not me. The only change is that those unarmored criticals should be quite lethal if you're hit by someone using JHP. There's little I can do about that without removing the whole point of my ammo changes, though.

v1.6 should be up in a matter of minutes, now that I've finally tested everything (hell, where are those Flamer gang encounters when you need'em?). It contains a quite nifty Flamer improvement that I happen to be extremely proud of.

Changes in v1.6:

Regular Flamers accept only regular fuel, Improved Flamers accept only Improved fuel. They both do 50-90 damage, have a range of 6 and a hit bonus of 20%. Improved Flamers are now loaded with Improved Fuel by default, which means you can no longer exploit Algernon quite as much.

Both types of Flamethrower Fuel weigh 6 pounds.

The Sniper Rifle now has a flat hit bonus of 40% instead of behaving like the Scoped Hunting Rifle, because enemies who use it tend to gang up on you instead of staying at a distance, giving them a horrible accuracy.

The HK CAWS and Pancor Jackhammer have had their burst ranges reduced by 3 hexes.

The Vindicator Minigun has a base price of 14000.

Cleaned up some typos in the readme.

Wakizashi Blades have a max thrown range of 21. That is because they now weigh 2 pounds instead of 3.

Combat Knives have Thrust instead of Swing as their melee attack. Regular Knives are still Swinging, as they look to be about as pointy as my thumb.

All throwable knives cost 3AP to throw. Sharpened Poles cost 4AP to throw, meaning you can throw them all the way back to Poland twice a turn. Spears are unchanged.

(3ab) The Plasma Pistol does 21-35 damage and costs 4AP again.

Cattle Prods are Swinging again. I just remembered the stunsticks from Half-Life 2.

Switchblades do 8-8 damage, Shivs do 7-9, Clubs do 7-8 and Crowbars do 9-12.

The Mauser has a base price of 650, the Desert Eagle a base price of 700 and the Magnum a base price of 800.

The Desert Eagle does one more point of minimum damage, and putting an extended clip on it yields one more round.

The Magnum costs 4AP to fire. Ever since v0.9, there has been a tiny part of my soul whispering that something is very very wrong in the essence of Fallout 2. That part is now content.
 
Don't you learn? Magnus goes through version numbers like a Vindicator Minigun goes through Caseless ammo. :D

Good call on the sniper rilfe Magnus. The New Reno mobsters were getting utterly creamed by the Yakuza.
 
Minigun Jim said:
Don't you learn? Magnus goes through version numbers like a Vindicator Minigun goes through Caseless ammo. :D

Good call on the sniper rilfe Magnus. The New Reno mobsters were getting utterly creamed by the Yakuza.
Click to expand...

Hex editing really is incredibly easy, people. I much prefer it over drawing itty bitty towns on the worldmap in Paint. Heh, I believe v1.3 was actually available for about 20 minutes until v1.3b came :lol: At least you can install everything on top of v1.5 without having to start a new game.

The Yakuza managed to kill Vic with a flurry of Throwing Knives the other day, and he was wearing Metal Armor! They now get two throws a turn and have a quite impressive range. At least now they get properly fried by the Flamer thugs, like they should.
 
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