Fallout 2 mod Fallout 2: Weapons Redone v2.3

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Magnus, May 8, 2008.

  1. Cubik2k

    Cubik2k Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
    Modder

    484
    Nov 22, 2005
    This is possible when killap and MIB will available their merchants source scripts. I could do this but I need yours propositions about changes to the merchants (what items they should have to sell etc.)
     
  2. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    I just had a big battle with the Salvatores right now. Took me some time to kill, their lasers were making some dents in my Combat Armor MKII. Marcus suffered a lot when atacked by them, they really took out his life fast, good thing Marcus had a Minigun. Also, lots of civilians died in the crossfire. You know, now the Salvatores look like FEARED MOBSTERS, not just some losers with pea-shooters. Can't wait to see the New version of Magnus Weapons. That's for my next game, however.

    "Lasers? Yeah, those are your lasers. Yeah, look at this *fires laser rifle* MY LASER IS BETTER THAN YOURS, FOOLS!!!!
     
  3. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    948
    Dec 6, 2007
    I would very much appreciate any help with scripting or using the mapper, as I am basically just a grease monkey who stumbled upon a hex editor and decided to make FO2 a bit better. You are very kind to suggest this, Cubik2k :)

    The thing is, I actually think 7.62 rarity is okay. FO2 takes place in the future, in a setting where no ammo is being produced because there are no factories. I would imagine that ammo types that are very common in the real world today (such as 7.62 or 9mm) would be rare in the future, because they are being used up quickly. While rare and futuristic ammo types (such as 2mmEC and 4.7 caseless) would be more plentiful because such types are rarely used and few people have weapons that use them. Normally, the common types of ammo would be, well, common, but in a post-apocalyptic setting with no ammo factories, the popular ammo types would eventually become used up, and less common types would be used.

    But game balance comes before everything, of course, so I think the game should have a bit more easy access to 7.62. Something I'd rather do than edit the merchants would be to put huge stashes of 7.62 and 9mm in crates in for example the VC armory and the other vaults, as leftovers from a time when such ammo was plentiful. This also requires mapper use, so if Cubik wanted to do this I would be very grateful. I will probably not think about doing it until Killap and MIB88 release their sources for those maps, however.

    A script from Killap that I would very much like to have is the one for Algernon in New Reno. What I would like him to do is to require one load of Junk for each upgrade. This means you will eventually have to pay for upgrades when there is no more Junk to find, and thus the incredible wealth that unbalances the game would be reduced.
     
  4. Mr.Wolna

    Mr.Wolna Vault Senior Citizen

    Nov 15, 2007
    killap will release the ssl files with 1.2 release, because i ask him. For my(not me alone) BoS Mod.
     
  5. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    948
    Dec 6, 2007
    .ssls out in the open sounds very good!

    Here are some melee weapon stats I imagine for v0.5:

    Blunt:
    Brass Knuckles 4-6 damage, 3AP punch
    Wrench 5-8 damage, 3AP swing
    Club 7-9 damage, 4AP swing
    Crowbar 6-10 damage, 4AP swing
    Sledgehammer 13-16 damage, 5AP swing/thrust, 6 ST req.
    Power Fist 10-15 damage, 3AP punch
    Mega Power Fist 20-25 damage, 3AP punch
    Louisville Slugger 20-30 damage, knockback, 4AP swing
    Super Sledge 30-40 damage, 5AP swing/thrust, 6 ST req.

    Not sure about Power Fists, Louisville Slugger and Super Sledge yet, I'll have to look at their stats.

    Sharp:
    Knife 3-7 damage, 3AP swing, 4AP throw
    Spiked Knuckles 5-9 damage, 3AP punch
    Combat Knife 4-10 damage, 3AP swing, 4AP throw
    Switchblade 3-12 damage, penetrate, 3AP thrust
    Little Jesus 4-14 damage, 3AP swing, 4AP throw
    Spear 5-15 damage, penetrate, 5AP thrust and throw
    Sharpened Spear 6-18 damage, penetrate, 5AP thrust and throw
    Wakizashi Blade 15-35 damage, 4AP swing
    Ripper 20-30 damage, penetrate, 4AP thrust

    And for the ninja assassins out there:
    Shiv 3-90 damage, penetrate, 10AP thrust (as if the player quickly stepped behind the foe and cut his throat or stabbed his heart.)

    All sharp weapons will be throwable except for the Wakizashi Blade, the Ripper, the Spiked Knuckles and the Shiv. Blunt weapons like Crowbar and Wrench might be throwable if I can find suitable .frms for them. The Cattle Prods are different weapons entirely, as they rely on electricity to do damage.

    I realise that I'm changing someone's favourite weapons completely here, and that most will think melee weapons are overpowered, especially spears. Fact is, a .44 Magnum does 12-18 damage and is available in the Den, overpowering a sharpened spear and being ranged, at the same AP cost. With FMJ ammo it also gains anti-armor capabilities like the Spear. My idea for melee weapons is that blunt weapons should do more minimum damage, while sharp weapons should do more maximum damage. The values above are open to debate, however.
     
  6. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    Well, some values are good, but others are really strange:

    [/quote]Power Fist 10-15 damage, 3AP punch
    Mega Power Fist 20-25 damage, 3AP punch Wait, did you just weakened them? Why you did de-power them? I think they were stronger than tat before. I don't remember the damage figures right, but they are supposed to be both really powerful. But you aren't sure and nor I am, so better check out futher.


    Huh, you do know that the Wakizashi had penetrate before, right? I think that lowering the damage a little (say, 13-30) and giving it penetrate would make it pretty good, maybe even better than the ripper. No sense in giving it 4AP swing, though. 3AP and being weaker than the ripper but with Penetrate would make it quite powerful. The Ripper could use some increased damage, though. The slower thrust and the need for ammo could be offset by sheer higher damage.
     
  7. MIB88

    MIB88 So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
    Modder

    Feb 22, 2005
    Off topic: For those of you who mentioned source files, I have no problem releasing those to anyone. Unfortunately, since I use a different program than everyone else, I don't know how useful they would be. However, I will review things as they come out in this mod, and try to incorporate things into the Megamod.
     
  8. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    948
    Dec 6, 2007
    Power Fist 10-15 damage, 3AP punch
    Mega Power Fist 20-25 damage, 3AP punch
    I will keep the power fists at their current damage level, but remove their completely undeserved Penetrate perk. The wakizashi is really a small sword, which looks sharp but not pointy and is meant to be a quick alternative to the large katana, hence the 4AP rather than 5. I've only given Penetrate to pointy weapons, look at Switchblade vs. Little Jesus, for example, so I won't be giving it to Wakizashi. I'm not sure about the Wakizashi's and the Ripper's damage, though.
     
  9. Minigun Jim

    Minigun Jim It Wandered In From the Wastes

    157
    May 12, 2008
    Hmm...
    The in-game wakazashis do specifically say "this is meant to pierce armour", so they *should* get penetrate. For the history nuts out there, I say "post apocalyptic future setting, guys, not feudal Japan" Assume the yakuza find pointy weapons better against the usual mobster armour.

    I'd also argue that a motorised fist deserves "penetrate" for a couple of reasons. One, it needs to be balanced against the ultimate melee weapon with it's range, knockback and higher dmg.
    Two, I guess it represents the ability to crush and tear armour with the grip.

    I started a new game with the mod over the weekend, and although the upgraded throwing is cool, it still faces one of the biggest weaknesses of thrown weapons....
    Finding the damn things! :(. It's so easy to lose thrown weapons behind scenery or under lootable bodies, preventing you from picking them up. One thing that would really help this would be a patch that makes items highlighted *without* needing mouse-over when you're in combat mode.
     
  10. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    Hi Magnus, any plans to change the 14mm Handgun? Even with Glovz's AP ammo mod inside the Restoration Patch, that gun is made of failure. I just tried fighting Kaga (who had Advanced Power Armor) with it. Even my Red Ryder LE did more damage than the 14mm Handgun. Even my Laser Rifle did more damage than it. And 14mm AP ammo has a whoppin' -50 DR. Ins't DR supposed to make enemy's resistance go down? Well, that Advanced Power Armor just take my 14 rounds like as if it was wind. I mean, sure, it's Advanced Power Armor, but why even a BB round does more damage than a 14mm AP round fired from a enormous hand-cannon?
     
  11. Cubik2k

    Cubik2k Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
    Modder

    484
    Nov 22, 2005
    @Slaughter Manslaught and other players: try use my Ammo mod v2.0 (2.1e) with Ravachol's damage patch. Do it on another installation of Fallout2 and see how 14mm Pistol is working on different armors.

    @Magnus: use some changes from those ammo mods, but i know, you have yours idea ;) good, but if you want some help in balancing power of weapons and ammo i could send you Excell file with damage calcutaing with original Fallout2 damage alghoritm and with Ravachol's damage algorithm. You can see differenties. PM to me.
    BTW. maps and scripts: I want to help you but I need a list of merchants with their stuff, and places with added stuff to make changes to maps :)
     
  12. Minigun Jim

    Minigun Jim It Wandered In From the Wastes

    157
    May 12, 2008
    1: The Red Ryder LE is an amazing gun. It always hits for 25 dmg, so it's got no chance to fall in the bottom of its range. It's a joke, a resference to the game Wasteland, and it's powerful.

    2. AP bullets 3o 1/2 the normal base damage of the gun. BBs have no modifiers, they just do 100% dmg.

    3. Magnus makes Lasers frickin' rule. :P
     
  13. JOG

    JOG First time out of the vault

    36
    Dec 17, 2007
    Those two are typical concealed stabbing weapons, one used in jail one in clubs, both have a thin blade or just a spike, there isn't much slashing or troat-slitting to be done with those weapons, and not much place for varying damage (=penetration depth) you use them to stab someone in a crowd and walk away while he collapses.

    Just some proposals:

    Switchblade: 8-8 damage, penetrate, 3AP thrust, Crit Fail 2

    It shouldn't be throwable either because the mechanism is too heavy (unbalanced) and after throwing a few times the mechanism might break or become shaky. There is no handguard, and the knife may fold itself at the most unconvenient moment, so a higher crit rate.


    Shiv: 9-9 damage, penetrate, 3AP thrust, Crit Fail 3

    It's a spike with a taped-on handle, many ways to break it or hurt yourself.


    The Wakizashi-Blade depends on how you see it, since there is no sword animation, it could be a long dagger (Tanto) instead of a sword ("wakizashi" just means "sidearm"), since it's more common, same or less damage than "lil Jesus" at 3AP may be appropriate.

    When the wakizashi is indeed the shortsword once used as Samurai's side-arm, then damage is okay, but maybe you could also do a thrust attack at range 2 with 5AP.


    As for "Little Jesus" well it's a one-of-a-kind weapon the favorite weapon of the best knifefighter in the game, it should be special, thus it had penetrate originally.
     
  14. Cubik2k

    Cubik2k Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
    Modder

    484
    Nov 22, 2005
    Well, I know what you want to do ;) I make a short list of changes to maps and you will see is it good.
     
  15. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    948
    Dec 6, 2007
    Wakizashi: Penetrate will be added. I didn't know about the game text.

    Power Fist: No. No penetrate. Nothing personal. The Mega Power Fist still does 20-40 damage for 3AP, which is a lot. And Knockback can be a downright liability if you're melee vs. ranged, since you have to run up to the victim.

    Thrown things: I agree, though I usually find my Spears and Knives back. But if any coding wiz-kid out there knows how to make it so that weapons are always and always always visible and clickable *on top* of everything else on the ground, it would be a lot better, though perhaps a bit unrealistic. There is no word for the frustrations of losing a perfectly good Combat Knife under a Pig Rat corpse.


    Some more info, v0.5 is in the works now:

    Shotgun will do 16-26 damage, because it's a shotgun. AND: Knockback! awww yeahyeahyeah... The knockback replaces a 20% hit bonus, so its range has been increased by 2 to compensate a little. It's now a very good competitor to the Hunting Rifle, though the latter has better armor piercing, accuracy and ammo price.

    Sawnoff shotgun will do 14-40 damage and get a 40% bonus to hit, because it's nearly impossible to miss with. (No knockback because the increased dispersion reduces projectile momentum.) It's range is also upped to 8. This is what you've been waiting for.

    Sniper weapon min/max damage ratio will be 1/2, meaning that Hunting rifles do 10-20 damage, Sniper Rifle does 17-34 damage and the Bozar does 50-100 damage. Also, the Sniper Rifle will cost 6AP again.

    The .223 pistol will lose its Penetrate perk so the Sniper Rifle has a chance against it.

    The Flamer will do 50-95 damage. The Improved Flamer will do 60-100 damage. Both will have a range increase of 1 (this does not look weird)

    Due to a grueful oversight on my part, all scoped weapons suddenly got a 40% bonus to hit instead of behaving like the Scoped Hunting Rifle. This will be fixed.

    And so on.
     
  16. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    .233 Pistol has PENETRATE? Whoa, now that's weird!
     
  17. Cubik2k

    Cubik2k Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
    Modder

    484
    Nov 22, 2005
    Propositions about places with additional rare ammo stuff for Magnus Mod:


    Arroyo
    - nothing

    Klamath
    - 10mm AP - 48 pcs. in klamath rat's mine 1'st floor left side room after entering into the mine

    Klamath Toxic Caves
    - 7.62mm - 100 pcs. in the bunker

    Den
    - 5mm JHP and AP - 50 pcs in the Church

    Modoc
    - small random pcs. of any kind of typical ammo (10mm, 9mm, 5mm, 7.62mm) in the rat's smell cave (where golden watch is)

    Modoc Ghost Farm
    - from Slugs 100 pcs. of any kind of 5mm

    Redding
    - I do not know, nothing in my opinion, maybe 14mm AP 50 pcs. in the infested mine? Good against Wannamingos.

    Vault City
    - 5mm, 7.62mm 200 pcs in vault's stash, frag grenades - 10 pcs

    Gecko
    - nothing new needed because there live merchants ghoul who sells any kind of typical ammo very cheap

    Raiders
    - as is, nothing new

    Broken Hills
    - hmm.. from the well? 12ga? Give me your proposition.

    New Reno
    - Algernon will make some stuff from junk or a cash (needed script from killap)

    NCR
    - Westins farm: 7.62mm, 10mm - 50 pcs, 14mm - 24 pcs

    Vault 15
    - a stash in 3 floor - 7.62mm, 10mm, 5mm, 14mm - 100 pcs

    Vault 13
    - nothing

    San Francisco
    - all merchants have so much weapons and ammo... nothing new

    Military Base
    - small and fusion cells? Yes i think this is needed somewhere ;) about 100 pcs

    Navarro
    - by stealing you can find any ammo in a lots pcs. (100-200 pcs)



    The merchants:
    I do not know, please give me your propositions.

    Random encounters:
    What do you think about crates in random encounters? And the stuff from raiders/highwaymens/other bandits etc? I think they have too much any kind of ammo and weapons.

    sorry for my poor English
     
  18. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    948
    Dec 6, 2007
    This is very very nice of you. I would like all of the vaults, the Military Base and perhaps also the Toxic Caves to contain only "old" ammo (5mmJHP/AP, 7.62, 9mm, 9mmBall, 14mmAP and any others i forgot), since these stashes are pre-war, but not the common ones like .44 or .223 FMJ (though the Bozar in the caves should lie next to a huge pile of .223 FMJ). About 50-80 of the single shot-type ammos and around 150-200 of the burst-type ammos would be good. You don't have to add any new crates, just edit the stashes that are already there. Thank you very much in advance, you will be credited properly in the readme and first post.

    EDIT:
    I just saw your list, it looks kickass. Forget about the merchants and the randoms for now, though they are good ideas. Here are some more specific amounts I have. If these places already contain some amounts of the ammos I've listed below, those amounts should change into mine, unless there is already more of the ammo:

    Toxic caves: 100x of .223FMJ and 5mmAP, 150x of 7.62 and 5mmJHP.

    Military Base: 200x of both 5mmJHP and AP.

    VC vault armory: 100x 5mmJHP, 150x 7.62, 4 clips of 14mmAP, 6 clips of 9mm, 4 clips of 9mmBall, 6 clips of both types of Needler ammo (medical-like weapon).

    Vault 15: 40x Flamethrower Fuel, 20x Improved Flamethrower Fuel, 200x 7.62, 8 clips of 9mmBall, 6 clips of 9mm.

    Redding Caves: 4 clips of 14mmAP in various places (not too hard to find).

    Modoc cave: Various bits of all kinds of common ammo, like you said.

    Ghost Farm caves: A Mauser pistol in one of the crates, with 5 clips of 9mmBall and 7 clips of 9mm. Also 75x 5mmJHP and 50x 5mmAP.

    I would also like an empty Laser Pistol on the charred corpse next to the crashed Vertibird in Klamath, and one clip of Small Energy Cell (24 shots i think) in the tunnel northwest of where Smiley is in the Toxic Caves. We don't really need more energy ammo, as you can buy plenty of it in the game.
     
  19. Cubik2k

    Cubik2k Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
    Modder

    484
    Nov 22, 2005
    How about rockets, flamethrower fuel, BB's, .45, frag grenades and molotov coctails?
    I am going to work today, all maps will be from RP by Killap v1.1
     
  20. Magnus

    Magnus Weapons Manufacturer Modder

    948
    Dec 6, 2007
    .45! I knew I forgot something. Add a helping of .45 equal to 9mm where I've written it in the post above. Flamethrower Fuel and Improved Flamethrower Fuel in Vault 15, perhaps 80 and 40, respectively? Many more Molotov Cocktails, one in Marcus's house, one in the Sheriff of Redding's house, one on Joey in the Den, one in Westin's ranch, a few standing around on the tables in bars in New Reno, etc. BBs are mostly a novelty, but you can buy them in NCR, so it's not a very big deal.