Fallout 2 mod Fallout 2: Weapons Redone v2.3

Magnus said:
That way, the 10mm Pistol, the .44 Magnum and the Gauss Pistol will be the only conventional pistols in the game with an AP cost of 4.
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There's also the Mauser, AKA the Puny Pistol of Pathetic Pointlessness (TM) :P. What with it being low damage, found next to a .44 Magnum, and only having about 30 poor quality rounds available throughout the entire game. Pity they didn't put it in the Rat Caves instead of the 10mm Pistol really. Then it might have seen some use.
 
An even hotter hotfix than the previous one is now up. It does two things:

Lets the Magnum fire at the cost of 4AP.

Removes the AC modifier of the shotgun ammo, its damage is unchanged.


I have thought about switching the Mauser's ID number with the .223 Pistol so that you only find one of those, where the Mauser is usually found, since the item description says its a one-of-a-kind weapon. The Mauser would then be found where you usually find the .223, on enemies, merchants and in another locker. This could be done without switching their ammo types, as the pistols' default ammo would stay the same, avoiding anomalies like the HK P90c that used to be loaded with 10mm but only accepted 9mm.

That way, you would be able to buy 9mm Mausers loaded with 9mmBall from the merchants who currently sell the .223 pistol, and also find a Mauser loaded with 9mmBall on enemies who currently use the .223 pistol, though you would find no more loose clips of regular 9mm or 9mmBall than in the locker where you currently find the Mauser.

9mmBall ammo would still be scarce, but you would at least be able to buy and find it, though there is no way for me to increase the game's amount of regular 9mm ammo without using the mapper. The availability of .221 FMJ would only be decreased by the amount of ammo in the .223 pistols now turned into Mausers, but since it is perhaps the most common ammo type in the game this does not matter much.

To make the Mauser more feasible, it will have damage and range like the Desert Eagle, and an AP cost of 4. I will also look into 9mm and 9mmBall ammo to make it better. If this turns out well, every single weapon in the game will now be useful. The only thing bad about it would be that you would find the .223 Pistol next to a load of 9mm and 9mm Ball, but it's not a big thing. Does this sound like a good idea?

EDIT: I have tested this and everything works as described above. The only thing now is to get the Mauser's stats right, do a few other weapon changes and release v0.9!
 
That'd be a big change. I figured the Mauser was just an Easter Egg, a nod to its appearance on Gizmo in the original Fallout rather than a "real" weapon. I only mentioned it there as a bit of a joke. :)

It's an antique gun, using older, smaller, less advanced bullets than any other pistol. Obviously something that's both rare and not that powerful. Since it's only found in one place in the game and no enemies carry it, it's got no real effect on game balance at all. Swapping it with the .223 pistol would be far more trouble than it's worth.

It's also be rather strange from a plot point of view, you could assume that someone got hold of a stock of rifles in New Reno and made a load of .223 Pistols, but not really that there was a huge cache of WWI-era pistols lying around.

The only use for it in a mod would be if someone put it in the Rat Caves somewhere rather than the 10mm Pistol, or somewhere else around Klamath as the next step up from the Pipe Rifle. It's an accurate weapon, so useful while still training Small Guns.
 
A bullet from a Mauser easily goes right through a human body and enters another one behind it, it is a very lethal pistol. As for early 20th century weapons, there are dozens of thugs in and around New Reno using Tommy Guns and Grease Guns, aren't there? I think the Mauser would fit better in with those weapons than in a random locker, and most of the encounters where enemies currently use .223 Pistols are around New Reno.

Besides, the .223 pistol is the most powerful regular pistol in the game, it should be rare and valuable. It is currently common and valuable, which both makes the player too rich and fits badly in with the pistol's description.

I'm being stubborn because I've already made the changes I talked about earlier and like them a lot myself. The Mauser is now swapped with the .223 pistol. It has a damage of 10-16, a range of 25, a 20% bonus to hit (which was already there, not added by me) and costs 4AP to fire.

The 9mmBall ammo now has a damage mod of 3/2, a DR modifier of 20 and a negative AC modifier of 10. It also comes in clips of 18, to fit with the Mauser's magazine of 9. 18 rounds have a base sell price of 300, to account for their scarcity.

The useless and descriptionless 9mm ammo has been given the exact same stats, description and appearance as the 9mmBall, effectively removing 9mm from the game (I believe it's a "dummy" ammunition that the developers forgot to finish). There will now appear to be 2 stashes of 9mmBall in the locker, which looks a bit weird but goes away once you use up or sell one of them. I did this for compatibility with mods that add new items and descriptions.
 
Yeah, I'll agree on the "replica weapons" thing like for the Tommy Gun. As for the power, I figured it'd have to rank under a 10mm pistol because of the smaller bullets. But then, the P90 does way more than the 10mm off the same ammo. If you've already made the changes, fine. It just seemed to me like more work to figure out a way to make it not almost duplicate the Magnum than to ignore.

It does make more sense with the .223 description too. I guess the Mauser's the "junior Gausspistol" for 0.9 :). Accurate, 4AP, decent power, low strength req *hands one to Myron*.

And when did you include the +20% to hit bonus for grenades? Cause that goes a long way to making them work better. It's not like you need to land a direct hit for one to be dangerous :D . Currently I've used them to great effect clearing out New Reno and the Military Base.
 
Minigun Jim said:
Yeah, I'll agree on the "replica weapons" thing like for the Tommy Gun. As for the power, I figured it'd have to rank under a 10mm pistol because of the size and old bullets. But then, the P90 does way more than the 10mm. If you've already made the changes, fine it just seemed to me like more work to figure out than to ignore.

It does make more sense with the .223 description too. I guess the Mauser's the "junior Gausspistol" now :). Accurate, 4AP, decent power, low strength req *hands one to Myron*.
Plus replacing the expensive weapons with cheaper ones will help reduce the sheer ease of looting for cash. On that same line, would you be able to swap the CAWSes on the early highwaymen to Combat Shotguns? The CAWS is easier to find than a Combat Shotgun thanks to that.
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I'm very glad you agree, and again thanks for your support. The Mauser is more like the Junior .44 Magnum, which costs 4AP again. It does never do as much damage as the Magnum, but it carries more shots, shoots farther, is very accurate and removes the need of changing ammos when up against people in Combat Armor, since its one type of ammo is a combination of JHP and FMJ. It's still not an armor penetrating gun, though. I'll upload v0.9 later today, where I've included a table in F2WRAmmoArmorValues that shows the 9mm Mauser's new damage against different types of armor.

As for the H&K CAWS, the only thing I could do would be to swap all instances of the Combat Shotgun with the CAWS, and since the highwaymen appear to have equal shares of Combat Shotguns and CAWSes, this would do little to amend the problem.

I would have to use the FO2 mapper to edit the random encounters, and that requires IN10 and 301% Science. So it's low down on my to-do list, but it's not impossible. At least it would not impose any compatibility problems, as I doubt Killap or MIB88 has edited the random encounters. Anyway, I don't think the CAWS is all that common.

Something I'd rather do is to edit the weapons' prices, such as the plentiful Combat Shotgun selling for 2000 instead of 2750 and so on. I mean, if the Pancor Jackhammer sells for 10000, how come it's standard issue for all the cops in NCR? Then why aren't all the cops wearing Power Armor and using Avengers? This might sound like a purely pointless idea, but it will certainly help when I do it to all of the weapons that could go for less since they are so plentiful.

The thing is, after Vault City you almost always find new weapons before you buy them, which means you never buy them, but sell them and make way more cash than the developers intended. We'll see in v1.0.
 
A reduction of the weapon prices would help. Save making the usual round trip to different doctors and trading spare guns for his entire stock of chems just to keep the weight down.

As for the armor piercing on the Mauser, it doesn't matter for the sniper tactic anyway. You load a Magnum with JHP, aim for the eyes twice a round, and hope you get an "ignores armour" critical to cause massive damage.

Meh. Forget the CAWS then. I have little idea of how much effeort stuff takes if it's not just editing item values.
 
Magnus said:
As for the H&K CAWS, the only thing I could do would be to swap all instances of the Combat Shotgun with the CAWS, and since the highwaymen appear to have equal shares of Combat Shotguns and CAWSes, this would do little to amend the problem.

I would have to use the FO2 mapper to edit the random encounters, and that requires IN10 and 301% Science. So it's low down on my to-do list, but it's not impossible. At least it would not impose any compatibility problems, as I doubt Killap or MIB88 has edited the random encounters. Anyway, I don't think the CAWS is all that common.
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Nope. Easier than you think. You need to edit the Worldmap.txt file in the data/data folder. Easy enough... just use notepad. When you open it up, look for the encounters referencing marauders, highwaymen, robbers, etc. Note the item numbers in the file. It will tell you what each critter in the encounter will have regarding money, items, weapons, etc. I don't have my files in front of me now, but you just need to find the item number for the weapon you want to change... this is the same as the .pro number. So, if the combat shotgun is item 200, and the CAWS is item 300, then just replace the 200 with 300 whereever you want. Maybe my description is bad, but if you open the file, you will see it is quite easy.
Keep in mind, though: Once you start tinkering with the worldmap.txt file, you will lose compatibility with other mods. I have made significant changes to that file in my mod.
 
Magnus said:
Something I'd rather do is to edit the weapons' prices, such as the plentiful Combat Shotgun selling for 2000 instead of 2750 and so on. I mean, if the Pancor Jackhammer sells for 10000, how come it's standard issue for all the cops in NCR? Then why aren't all the cops wearing Power Armor and using Avengers? This might sound like a purely pointless idea, but it will certainly help when I do it to all of the weapons that could go for less since they are so plentiful.
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Reducing the value of ALL of the shotgun type weapons is something i would very much support. I swear i make most of my money in the first half of the game selling those ludicrously overpriced weapons.

I also like the Mauser change. Good work.

On a different note - I was thinking about the sledgehammers and suggest one small change: (which you may have already implemented)
Increase the strength req. to wield the sledgehammer. ST. 5 seems too low for such a HUGE weapon! I would suggest 6. Maybe even 7 for the super sledge. My reasoning? - IMO ST is a rather overlooked stat i rarely consider bumping up.
 
Josan12 said:
Magnus said:
Something I'd rather do is to edit the weapons' prices, such as the plentiful Combat Shotgun selling for 2000 instead of 2750 and so on. I mean, if the Pancor Jackhammer sells for 10000, how come it's standard issue for all the cops in NCR? Then why aren't all the cops wearing Power Armor and using Avengers? This might sound like a purely pointless idea, but it will certainly help when I do it to all of the weapons that could go for less since they are so plentiful.
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Reducing the value of ALL of the shotgun type weapons is something i would very much support. I swear i make most of my money in the first half of the game selling those ludicrously overpriced weapons.

I also like the Mauser change. Good work.

On a different note - I was thinking about the sledgehammers and suggest one small change: (which you may have already implemented)
Increase the strength req. to wield the sledgehammer. ST. 5 seems too low for such a HUGE weapon! I would suggest 6. Maybe even 7 for the super sledge. My reasoning? - IMO ST is a rather overlooked stat i rarely consider bumping up.
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ST req is indeed 6, it is mentioned in the full list of changes in the first post, underneath the weapons' stats in the "Low-tech" section. The reason why no one ever puts ST higher than 5 is that the remaining 5 points can be had by installing the Red module and donning some Advanced Power Armor. Something I've wanted to do for a long time is to make the Red module increase AG instead, as there are no other ways to increase AG than the Gain Foo perks, which is almost like cheating. This does not have anything to do with weapons, however, so it doesn't belong in this mod.

Something I have been thinking of is that
IF the HK CAWS is not being used by any Enclave patrols, NCR cops, Brotherhood members or any people that should have high level weapons like that, and
IF there are no weapon stocks where the HK CAWS is being kept along with a stock of Shotgun shells (like the Combat Shotgun with ammo in Liz's secret stock in Broken Hills), then...

... I may swap its ID numbers with the Grease Gun.

The only places I can think of where the HK CAWS is being used, are in those early Highwaymen (the bandits, not the car) encounters on the way from Modoc to Vault City.

Now, those highwaymen encounters would be much more realistic if the bandits were carrying low-tech, rugged-looking submachineguns rather than advanced full-automatic shotguns, like some Terminator super-killer Robocops from space. If they had Grease Guns, the player would have a step on the burst-ladder between the 10mmSMG and the Assault Rifle, and it would also make that .45 caliber ammo a bit more available.

As for where the Grease Guns are currently being used, the only people I can think of are the Raiders in their base and the Raider encounters around the base, which the player usually encounters on his way from Vault City to NCR or New Reno, after having given Metal Armor to all of his comrades and loaded them up with powerful weapons. The Raiders already have Combat Armor, Assault Rifles and FN FALs, as well as financial backing and an organised leadership, something the Highwaymen do not. Why shouldn't they have a couple of HK CAWSes as well?

Switching the two weapons should not pose any problems, unless there are people already using HK CAWSes who would look bloggedy-fuggerall-arse-stupid if they were given Grease Guns. I don't think there are, though. This would also keep the mod fully compatible with both Killap's and MIB88's massive modifications, which is a must for anyone trying to make a mod these days. And last, but not least, it should delay the player's cash flow a little bit. I am also planning to reduce the prices of many, many weapons in FO2, but I personally like the switching idea for v0.9.

Anyone else say Aye? Or would the weapon switching suck like a Sharpened Pole?
 
Magnus said:
Anyone else say Aye? Or would the weapon switching suck like a Sharpened Pole?
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Hmm. Tough to say yay or nay. I like your rational
basis, but it could cause an imbalance for what gain?

I think the question you need to ask yourself, Magnus,
is what are you trying to achieve with this mod?
There's a million changes that could be made to FO2
and we all know it has a lot of imbalances.
But i would reccomend getting focused with what
you want to improve. Game difficulty balance is very
difficult and in my experience endless tweaking eventually ends up
with a mess. I liked it when you were set on improving
the weapons which really need it: thrown, laser, AP
etc.

On a seperate note: when you get a 'two groups fighting
each other' random encounter, is it possible to make
the survivors pick up all the loot and leave?

I've had games
where i've worked hard to get some cash together, then
suddenly you encounter a big fight and hey presto, you're
stinking rich without lifting a finger. With a good outdoorsman
this can be exploited big time....
 
Magnus said:
Anyone else say Aye?
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It's been awhile since I've played Fallout 2 (I'm waiting for the next update of Killap's RP), but if the situation is as you think it is, then I don't see a reason not to give it an "Aye".
 
Josan12 said:
Magnus said:
Anyone else say Aye? Or would the weapon switching suck like a Sharpened Pole?
Click to expand...

Hmm. Tough to say yay or nay. I like your rational
basis, but it could cause an imbalance for what gain?

I think the question you need to ask yourself, Magnus,
is what are you trying to achieve with this mod?
There's a million changes that could be made to FO2
and we all know it has a lot of imbalances.
But i would reccomend getting focused with what
you want to improve. Game difficulty balance is very
difficult and in my experience endless tweaking eventually ends up
with a mess. I liked it when you were set on improving
the weapons which really need it: thrown, laser, AP
etc.

On a seperate note: when you get a 'two groups fighting
each other' random encounter, is it possible to make
the survivors pick up all the loot and leave?

I've had games
where i've worked hard to get some cash together, then
suddenly you encounter a big fight and hey presto, you're
stinking rich without lifting a finger. With a good outdoorsman
this can be exploited big time....
Click to expand...

In my opinion, the current situation is unbalanced, and my idea was to improve it by giving the later enemies a stronger weapon and the earlier enemies a weaker, more appropriate one. I think it's safe to say that this could be accomplished without setting the game's balance on end. It did not break the game when I did it with the Mauser, but I still haven't uploaded v0.9 because I want to test it further to be absolutely sure.

You're a bit confusing here; first you want me to stick to changing only the weapons that need it and keeping the mod at a minimum, then you want me to do some advanced scripting that would apply to almost every random encounter and probably make the mod incompatible with other large ones, to fix a game balance issue that really has nothing to do with the game's weapon stats :wink: I guess that's why you called it a side note, though. Theoretically, the answer might be yes, but it is certainly not possible to me. Fallout2 scripting is *hard*.

And hey, have you seen the movie "No Country For Old Men"? When you witness two groups fighting over large values and eventually wiping each others out, then it's perfectly natural to walk away stinking rich from the spoils, it happens today all the time with drug dealers, illegal weapons sales and stock market profiteers.

To me, the answer to the stinking-rich problem lies in modifying the weapons' prices. I will not begin to do this until I have fixed all of the weapons' stats, but actually I think I have! With the Mauser exchange, there is no weapon I can think of that is really useless, so perhaps it's time for me to play "The Price Is Right"!
 
Magnus said:
there are no other ways to increase AG than the Gain Foo perks.
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There should have been. Look at the RP and you'll notice that EPA has a +1 agility increase as a reward for one of the quests.

Magnus said:
As for where the Grease Guns are currently being used, the only people I can think of are the Raiders in their base and the Raider encounters around the base.
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...and a bunch of the mobsters in New Reno. I don't think the base Raiders carry them actually. You said before on how the Grease Gun fitted in with New Reno's theme.
Changing the IDs would lead to the following:
Multiple mobsters with CAWSes in the casinos.
Boss Salvatore presenting you with a CAWS and Leather Armor Mk II when you become a Made Man.

It'd be OK for balance (Bishop/Mordino families wouldn't be altered that much) but possibly odd for the theme.

Ideally, I'd say to swap with the Needler, but then Myron would look ridiculous turning up with a (to him) unusable massive shotgun.
 
Minigun Jim said:
Magnus said:
As for where the Grease Guns are currently being used, the only people I can think of are the Raiders in their base and the Raider encounters around the base.
Click to expand...
...and a bunch of the mobsters in New Reno. I don't think the base Raiders carry them actually. You said before on how the Grease Gun fitted in with New Reno's theme.
Changing the IDs would lead to the following:
Multiple mobsters with CAWSes in the casinos.
Boss Salvatore presenting you with a CAWS and Leather Armor Mk II when you become a Made Man.

It'd be OK for balance (Bishop/Mordino families wouldn't be altered that much) but possibly odd for the theme.

Ideally, I'd say to swap with the Needler, but then Myron would look ridiculous turning up with a (to him) unusable massive shotgun.
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OOOPS! Nuff said, the mobster thing is especially bad. The CAWS' price will be reduced, though, but not until v1.0, since there are still some weapon "bugs" to iron out:


Coming in v0.9:

All instances of the .223 Pistol will be switched with the 9mmMauser, which will have better stats and better ammo. This means you will only find one .223 Pistol in the entire game, just like in good old Fallout. The .223 will also sound like a Sniper Rifle.

Since the Mauser costs 4AP, the .44 Magnum will cost 5AP again. I think I'll keep it this way.

Flamers will be better somehow, as they are still too weak.

Rockets and Needler ammo will be tinkered with.
 
FYI, people: switching the weapon ID numbers in the worldmap file will only affect random encounters. Those weapons on the maps in the various cities will NOT be affected.
 
Yeah, but that would break compatibility with other mods and the great thing about this mod is you can run it with others.

As for the CAWS change, you'd have to swap it with an uncommon mid-game weapon really, and the only other choices seem to be the Needler and the Sawnoff. The problem with both is Myron and Cassidy carry those and they'd both be silly with a CAWS.

As for Flamers, if they get in range they're pretty deadly, but they're an inefficient weapon for the player to use due to the weight of the ammo and the need to carry a long range gun too. Possibly reducing the weight of Flamethrower Fuel a bit along with the price(so it's won't become good cash loot) would make it more useful? Gangs carry them and increasing the power would make the Big Gun Thugs very dangerous to a player with New Reno gear.
 
Minigun Jim said:
(...)
And when did you include the +20% to hit bonus for grenades? Cause that goes a long way to making them work better. It's not like you need to land a direct hit for one to be dangerous :D . Currently I've used them to great effect clearing out New Reno and the Military Base.
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According to the readme, that goes all the way back to v0.3. The Bozar and Grenades were my first modifications, then came the laser weapons. I originally gave regular grenades a hit bonus of 40, and the rest of them 20. I tuned the regular ones down to make a point out of increasing the Throwing skill. I've also given all grenades a conciderable range increase, they now have a max thrown range of 20. If you're crazy about grenades, you could now choose the Heave Ho perk and actually notice a difference. Or just wear some Power Armor.

The fuel tank weight reduce was in my thoughts as well. We'll see what it looks like in v0.9.

EDIT:
It exceeds my comprehension why the developers gave Flamers a weight of 18 and fuel tanks a weight of 10, as those fuel tanks are not the ones you strap on your back, but meant to be popped into the Flamer like an ordinary clip in any other gun, hence their low capacity. This will be looked into.
 
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