Fallout 3 at E3 - Gametactics.com interview

Tora said:
xdarkyrex said:
But the point is that this city is something more like the hubologists and arroyo combined.
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Where did you get that impression from? based on what I've read I'd figure the place to be more of a redding-style town except larger or whatever. And you're forgetting the fact that it spawned because the nuke was there, or so the previews I've read have led me to believe anyway. If a community spawns around something, chances are you'll have stories passed down about that something. Even if word of mouth is not that great, I would still find it hard to believe that people would forget the fact that this bomb thingy in town can go boom, and not just the regular boom, but a big-giant horrible boom. Especially since weapons seem to be o-so very important .
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If anything, I got the idea that the town is most like a larger junk-town with a mentality halfway in between the hubologists and the citizens of arroyo.

Black said:
And again, poor FO's 2 design to justify poor design of FO3.
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While it may have been handled poorly in Fallout 2, I would hardly consider this poor handling, I was just trying to create an easy reference.

My OTHER posts are better, if you choose to read them.
 
It just doesn't make any sense. It's right outside of DC, and Burke (I think it's his name) isn't the only visitor they've had. The sheriff reminds you it's his town, so he's probably even had run-ins with others before. And like someone said, if they want it disarmed (they couldn't have done it themselves?) they obviously know that its effects would be destructive for the town if it were to go off.
 
xdarkyrex said:
Per said:
It might create a hole a few metres in diameter, perhaps, but is that a "bomb crater", and can you meaningfully structure a town around it?
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what about something the size of an icbm falling from space?

;)
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To answer the crater question: The heaviest soviet mirv weighed approx. 8800kg (19,800 lbs), and a warhead in flight will achieve a maximum velocity of around 6-7km/s and will impact with a speed of about 4km/s after it descends from a max height of around 1200km. Therefore, it has kinetic energy of about E = (1/2) * (m) * (V^2), or 70,400,000,000 Joules. That is the equivalent of almost 19,555,555 Watt-hours of energy, and that is the electrical energy used by about 6,500 homes in one day. Enough science lesson. Big fucking boom.
 
draeke said:
To answer the crater question: The heaviest soviet mirv weighed approx. 8800kg (19,800 lbs), and a warhead in flight will achieve a maximum velocity of around 6-7km/s and will impact with a speed of about 4km/s after it descends from a max height of around 1200km. Therefore, it has kinetic energy of about E = (1/2) * (m) * (V^2), or 70,400,000,000 Joules. That is the equivalent of almost 19,555,555 Watt-hours of energy, and that is the electrical energy used by about 6,500 homes in one day. Enough science lesson. Big fucking boom.
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Actually, if you really want to talk science, 70400000000 J is only about the equivalent of 16 Tons of TNT. The Hiroshima bomb was about a 20 Kilo ton equivalent, and had only a ~800 feet crater (granted it was detonated in the air, but supposedly that achieves a higher blast radius). So no, 16 Tons of TNT will easily take out a building, maybe a block, but enough area for a city? No.
 
1 TON T.N.T.(trinitrotoulene explosive) = 210.6 db (NP), 23.40 foot crater
and a 2000 meter critical distance D.

6.5 tons T.N.T.= 216.0 db(NP)+-0.3DB (NP = normalized PEAK SHOCK OVERPRESSURE not including blast wind Q pressure which usually is much higher), and a 43.68 foot crater, critical distance is approximately 4000 meters.

23.40 foot crater = 1 TON T.N.T.

43.68 foot crater = 6.5 TONS T.N.T.
100 foot crater = 78 TONS
633 foot crater = 20 KILOTONS = 20 KT
1000 foot crater = 78 KILOTONS
2112 foot crater = 600 KILOTONS

lol... I think that says the crater would be something like... uhh...

60 feet?
:lol: I have no idea what that all means.

But it definately doesn't seem big enough.
 
hm.. it seems I got that link too, but I guess my ADD skimming skillz failed me when I skimmed the site descriptions :P

back on topic though, I really doubt the warhead would've survived in a usable state after a full speed impact, even if it didn't detonate.
 
Tora said:
hm.. it seems I got that link too, but I guess my ADD skimming skillz failed me when I skimmed the site descriptions :P

back on topic though, I really doubt the warhead would've survived in a usable state after a full speed impact, even if it didn't detonate.
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Maybe this plays into the story somehow?

"someone tried to re-arm the nearly shattered nuke" and thats why it needs to be disarmed, they caught the last person that the guy destroying the town sent, who managed to get it halfway finished ;)

And thats why the need for it to be disarmed is new and the sheriff asks for your help (because none of his men know how)
 
xdarkyrex said:
Maybe this plays into the story somehow?

"someone tried to re-arm the nearly shattered nuke" and thats why it needs to be disarmed, they caught the last person that the guy destroying the town sent, who managed to get it halfway finished ;)

And thats why the need for it to be disarmed is new and the sheriff asks for your help (because none of his men know how)
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What I mean is, I doubt the warhead would even be one piece, or at the very best be totally crushed or deformed. Which would pretty much mean re-arming => making a new warhead. Nuclear explosions require very precise timings in the triggering explosives so I really doubt there'd be anything usable left of a crushed warhead. And if they actually had the technology to build a new nuke.... makes you wonder why its taken north korea so long to do so (and we still don't know if theirs is real!) :P
 
I'll have to see it before I can make any more comments, I've stretched my imagination as best I can for the night.

I think you're right though, if it made a huge crater, how is the nuke even REMOTELY intact?

Or maybe Bethsoft didn't put this much thought into the details, haha. (I wouldn't blame them, this is some major nitpicking)
 
draeke said:
To answer the crater question: The heaviest soviet mirv weighed approx. 8800kg (19,800 lbs), and a warhead in flight will achieve a maximum velocity of around 6-7km/s and will impact with a speed of about 4km/s after it descends from a max height of around 1200km. Therefore, it has kinetic energy of about E = (1/2) * (m) * (V^2), or 70,400,000,000 Joules. That is the equivalent of almost 19,555,555 Watt-hours of energy, and that is the electrical energy used by about 6,500 homes in one day. Enough science lesson. Big fucking boom.
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You are multiplying unrelated numbers. First of all we're not deploying an entire MIRV in a single place (which would sort of go against the point and function of MIRVs), but a single warhead. Very early warheads may have weighed a lot, but were quickly reduced in weight, presumably precisely to make them viable in ICBMs. Furthermore, according to Wikipedia, early ICBM warheads impacted at "less than 1 km/s". Either way I agree you don't want to stand next to it, but there's the question why it doesn't fly into a thousand pieces. Large conventional bombs dropped from planes on the other hand have been known to land intact and undetonated, but they don't leave those huge craters because they don't fall at anything like 1 km/s, and they don't weigh tons and tons.
 
This nitpicking is done, because that's their show-off quest...
I mean come on. Would Hammer (if they had such a thing) put something like a 'Smart' or 'Mini Cooper' in their main-showroom?
So if their 'show-off' cars got more then one flaw, what do you think the other have? ;)
---
But yeah, still nitpicking.
By the way, don't you think nearly all american know some bit about WW2 or WW1 ? - Don't you think, they will still hear something about that in 200 years?
And not only in school but from grandparents/parents and so on, and this was an event that didn't really impact america as hard as a nearly destruction would.
And i think one of the things you would tell your when being nearly killed, is what nearly killed you. So i think even if they think there a little fairys that come out and kill people when it happens, they would now, that there's something dangerous about it and that it's man-made ;)
 
Bad_Karma said:
By the way, don't you think nearly all american know some bit about WW2 or WW1 ? - Don't you think, they will still hear something about that in 200 years?
And not only in school but from grandparents/parents and so on, and this was an event that didn't really impact america as hard as a nearly destruction would.
And i think one of the things you would tell your when being nearly killed, is what nearly killed you. So i think even if they think there a little fairys that come out and kill people when it happens, they would now, that there's something dangerous about it and that it's man-made ;)
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A better example would be the revolutionary war.

And if you were to assume we didnt have a school system between then and now, and we were very small in number and had a weak social structure and near anarchy...


I think its likely many or most people might know ABOUT it, but knowledge past that would be peppered around seemingly at random, ranging for full-on delusional religious types, to primitives, to simple country folk who only who know next to nothing about it other than some basics, to folks who know quite a few details about it, especially like people who excavate old libraries.
 
You missing important points.
Even after big catastrophies people tend to talk about what happend, they even tend to write things down.

So we have Computers/PDA's (PipBoy3000)/Books/Paper and i actually thing we got a damn lot of coal.
And there are people who write diarys and other things. Don't you think people read what their grandparents saw? 1st Generation saw what happend frist hand. So 3 get a part of this information, and hand them also down.
Because children (wich are there!) tend to ask questions, like "What's that's green stuff in this book, covering the earth, Dad?".
There are tribes that have some 'good' knowledge of their past, and they don't even wrote their knwoledge down.
And i tend to believe that tribes in South-America who are daily fighting for their survival even know some parts of what happend...

This are real world examples of why it's somehow weak to say "They forgot what this thing is"...
Sure, we might say it's that way, but then i would rather come up and tell:
"This bomb was meant to destroy the Scientology Sect, wich then built their church around it" or such a thing, because that's more likely i think, then such a 'amnesia'-idea ;)
 
Per said:
draeke said:
To answer the crater question: The heaviest soviet mirv weighed approx. 8800kg (19,800 lbs), and a warhead in flight will achieve a maximum velocity of around 6-7km/s and will impact with a speed of about 4km/s after it descends from a max height of around 1200km. Therefore, it has kinetic energy of about E = (1/2) * (m) * (V^2), or 70,400,000,000 Joules. That is the equivalent of almost 19,555,555 Watt-hours of energy, and that is the electrical energy used by about 6,500 homes in one day. Enough science lesson. Big fucking boom.
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You are multiplying unrelated numbers. First of all we're not deploying an entire MIRV in a single place (which would sort of go against the point and function of MIRVs), but a single warhead. Very early warheads may have weighed a lot, but were quickly reduced in weight, presumably precisely to make them viable in ICBMs. Furthermore, according to Wikipedia, early ICBM warheads impacted at "less than 1 km/s". Either way I agree you don't want to stand next to it, but there's the question why it doesn't fly into a thousand pieces. Large conventional bombs dropped from planes on the other hand have been known to land intact and undetonated, but they don't leave those huge craters because they don't fall at anything like 1 km/s, and they don't weigh tons and tons.
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It was assumed that the mirv malfunctioned and landed undeployed. As far as multiplying unrelated numbers, I'm curious what you're referring to. The numbers I'm referring to come straight from nasa and other agencies of the us government, not wikipedia. Please let me know, as I am curious to what you are referring to.
 
The problem is, you're using some numbers, while we don't even know what a nuke is lying around in this crater.
Nor do we know how it came there. There's a big difference between an ICBM coming from the space and some plane dropping it, at least, that's what i think. Also we don't know how much it weight and so on...
So you're number may give a hint about, how large such a crater could be, but it's only a hint, while your numbers could be totally wrong and therefore unrelated to the bomb we got in the game.

I hope that's what Per meant ;)
 
draeke said:
It was assumed that the mirv malfunctioned and landed undeployed.
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It's a warhead. Even in your own quote you managed to separate the MIRV from its warheads at first, except this separation doesn't last until it's time to do the math. You have also made no attempt to explain how the warhead could be intact if it did land with a speed of 4 km/s as you suggest.

draeke said:
As far as multiplying unrelated numbers, I'm curious what you're referring to.
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You picked something really big and multiplied its mass with a really high speed and came up with a lot of energy. Not only does it not relate to what we're talking about, it doesn't even relate to what you were talking about.
 
Ok, well apparently must've been too pervasive, as i have never seen one of the faithfuls posts removed. I will then say for the weak at hearted crew, there is nothing about my math that is flawed. I challenge you to point out the difference. if you want to argue the math then i can get you a kid v2v that will put you in your place, because he is the one that explained to me how much energy would be expended by that malfunctioning MIRV we were talking about. lol
 
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