Fallout 3 at PAX: IGN and Child's Play

[DexterMorgan]

So the magical robe of Asclepius is in. Does it come with a matching staff? /facepalm.

 

[Kyuu]

Here's my argument: It's a video game mechanic and it works. The gloves give you a permanent boost while you're wearing them but at the tradeoff of not wearing a stronger piece of gear. It's a balance issue and it makes sense in video game terms because it's *gasp* a video game.

In Dungeons and Dragons armor makes you harder to hit, not resistant to damage. Wizards offered alternate rules to this in Unearthed Arcana... and they destroyed the game's balance. It doesn't make sense, but it's a game not real life.

Your argument that things should simply be accepted because it's a video game... isn't an argument. It's a cop-out, a way of saying "hey I don't give a shit let's not discuss the topic." Well hey, you're perfectly welcome to not give a shit, but that doesn't mean that others shouldn't debate it if they wish. Yes, there are other things to criticize and discuss. Yet, somehow, through the magic of thinking I can fathom how that doesn't mean everyone should shut up about this issue just because you don't feel like discussing it.

The only other point you raise is the same old "well if there's dragons/zombies/insert-something-that-doesn't-exist-in-real-life then you can't possibly complain about anything because hey... there's freaking DRAGONS/ZOMBIES/WHATEVER man!" Seriously. It's such a vapid argument it's not even worth the time to elaborate on why. Just give it a moment's thought.

So, as for the actual topic: is it a deal breaker, whereby if the rest of the game is freaking awesome well these magical clothes will just make the whole game unbearable? Hardly. Is it still a poor choice? Of course. There's no reason to clothes give bonuses to certain skills in completely nonsensical ways (a white smock with blood stains doesn't make you better at medicine, a mechanic's coveralls doesn't make you better at fixing stuff). Now of course a doctor's tools or a mechanic's tools would provide an advantage in their respective trades, but those are the tools. Not the clothes. Why not *gasp* make it so you can get tools which you can use to improve your abstracted "skills"? You know, like the original Fallouts did? Because the magical clothes feature was already in Oblivion and it was the lazy way to go? Possibly. Because the developers can't think outside their RPG = fantasy elements mindset? Also possible. Because the Toddler likes dressing up dolls and demanded that playing dress-up be in his game?

 

[aenemic]

you know, maybe it's a confidence thing. you feel more like a real doctor when wearing the appropriate clothes.

 

[FeelTheRads]

That would certainly get me through my next bypass surgery.

 

[mandala]

It´s completely acceptable in my view to get a charisma bonus for wearing a set of clothes or glasses in that case, believable too. You look cool or intimidating it affects the way people reacts at you, no stretching of imagination there.

Exactly, how can people compare a pair of glasses that make your character look good ( which is actually logical, imagine your character was crosseyed ) with some stupid doctors uniform that raises your medical skill. It's just dumb, love how some of the people here try to come up with silly ideas like nanobots oh and it's anti germs.

 

[Cow]

Here's my argument: It's a video game mechanic and it works. The gloves give you a permanent boost while you're wearing them but at the tradeoff of not wearing a stronger piece of gear. It's a balance issue and it makes sense in video game terms because it's *gasp* a video game.

In Dungeons and Dragons armor makes you harder to hit, not resistant to damage. Wizards offered alternate rules to this in Unearthed Arcana... and they destroyed the game's balance. It doesn't make sense, but it's a game not real life.

Your argument that things should simply be accepted because it's a video game... isn't an argument. It's a cop-out, a way of saying "hey I don't give a shit let's not discuss the topic." Well hey, you're perfectly welcome to not give a shit, but that doesn't mean that others shouldn't debate it if they wish. Yes, there are other things to criticize and discuss. Yet, somehow, through the magic of thinking I can fathom how that doesn't mean everyone should shut up about this issue just because you don't feel like discussing it.

The only other point you raise is the same old "well if there's dragons/zombies/insert-something-that-doesn't-exist-in-real-life then you can't possibly complain about anything because hey... there's freaking DRAGONS/ZOMBIES/WHATEVER man!" Seriously. It's such a vapid argument it's not even worth the time to elaborate on why. Just give it a moment's thought.

So, as for the actual topic: is it a deal breaker, whereby if the rest of the game is freaking awesome well these magical clothes will just make the whole game unbearable? Hardly. Is it still a poor choice? Of course. There's no reason to clothes give bonuses to certain skills in completely nonsensical ways (a white smock with blood stains doesn't make you better at medicine, a mechanic's coveralls doesn't make you better at fixing stuff). Now of course a doctor's tools or a mechanic's tools would provide an advantage in their respective trades, but those are the tools. Not the clothes. Why not *gasp* make it so you can get tools which you can use to improve your abstracted "skills"? You know, like the original Fallouts did? Because the magical clothes feature was already in Oblivion and it was the lazy way to go? Possibly. Because the developers can't think outside their RPG = fantasy elements mindset? Also possible. Because the Toddler likes dressing up dolls and demanded that playing dress-up be in his game?

I can't believe this. You actually attribute real life things to a science fiction video game?

No one here

No one here

NOT A SINGLE PERSON HERE in this topic has brought up the game mechanics in ANY video game that don't make sense. Why? Because the mechanics of a company you don't like in a video game you hate rear it's ugly head and you have nothing else better to do but to tear it apart. I may be a new user here, but I read other video game topics and no one else even bothers to mention how Mechanic A doesn't make sense in regards to Mechanic B.

I'm not dodging the question, I'm answering it truthfully but you choose to completely ignore it because you don't understand the importance of GOOD DESIGN over FUCKING REALISM and if you hadn't noticed, realism kills good game design.

Go on, tell me, would you enjoy Fallout if radiation gave you cancer? Would you enjoy Fallout if wounds took months to heal? Would you enjoy fallout if you suffered from heat exhaustion because you're running around in combat armor all day? Would you enjoy Fallout if wounds were permanent so getting blasted in the eyes would leave you forever blind? Would you enjoy Fallout if you had an inventory size restriction instead of a weight restriction?

Would you?

Seriously, would you enjoy any of the video games you currently play if the developers said to themselves "Now wait, that doesn't make sense so let's compromise fun, the most important factor in video entertainment, in order to please the hardcore nitpickers who will pick up the game and scream to themselves "ZOMG MY CHARACTER DOESN'T COUGH AT RANDOM INTERVALS HIS CIRCULATORY SYSTEM CAN'T POSSIBLY BE WORKING!!!!"

For fucks sake, this is ridiculous. Next people are going to complain how skill points can be assigned to skills you don't practice (or not because this is a Fallout mechanic and Fallout is sacred and perfect and cannot be compared to but BETHESDA BETHESDA DAMMIT I HATE THOSE GUYS SO MUCH FFFFFFFFFFFF).

Another thing we stumbled into, because time is moving forward, is that while you are watching an enemy react to getting shot in this great camera angle, your character can be getting mauled by another enemy. Really frustrating early on as we played it, so we do two things now: 1) depending on the camera chosen we essentially pause the rest of the world, and 2) we have a setting that dramatically reduces the damage the player takes during such an occurrence.

The setting is called EASY MODE and it can be turned off. When I played, enemies continued to shoot me after my called shots in VATS went off.

What balance? no one will use it like that, you wear the magical vestment thingie when you need and then take it out after you are done, replacing it with the armor for combat, because combat it´s suppose to sneak up anytime on you.

Because I hate doing inane repetitive tasks and I'm sure there's plenty of people like me. I'll either A) forget to equip the gloves everytime I use a common skill or B) sell the gloves because it's clogging up my inventory.

i agree but why are you here if not to discuss the game design?

Excuse me for venting some steam but it's a constant thing here (referring to nitpicking of mechanics that appear in every game). It's a constant thing and I can't help but think it's because A) this is Bethesda which is almost universally hated and B) because it's Fallout 3, a game that's universally hated. I could never be the designer of video game because I would be too self conscious of the people who'd come up to me and go "No human being can jump that high in a standing position fix it or I'll hate you forever!"

 

[Brother None]

This is a fansite, Cow, that means that by definition the flaws and perks of all games covered are magnified. This applies to Fallout 2 as much as it does to Fallout 3, and if you don't believe me you should ask Chris Avellone about the feedback he got regarding New Reno.

Everything Fallout is under a magnifying glass. That's how fansites work.

 

[TheGM]

I always got the idea the reason the tools made you Repair skill go up was because it made it more effective to repair things with a tool then your hands.

Now putting on some clothes to get a boost still seems a little iffy.

 

[analord]

And yet again comes the clothes that give you magical bonus at certain skills, nice.

Why the heck didn't they use the same tools of the original Fallout for this, Medic was increased through the use of the doctor bag, how clothes can improve a skill is beyond me.

Nanobots!

Logically!

Didn't the sunglasses in fallout give you a charisma bonus, or am i making it up?

Fallout 2.

To be honest I'm not upset about the clothes, but it's not exactly a brilliant idea either.

You know after finding out they took out turn based its like.

Scrubs make you a better doctor?

Good for them.

 

[PaladinHeart]

Go on, tell me, would you enjoy Fallout if radiation gave you cancer? Would you enjoy Fallout if wounds took months to heal? Would you enjoy fallout if you suffered from heat exhaustion because you're running around in combat armor all day? Would you enjoy Fallout if wounds were permanent so getting blasted in the eyes would leave you forever blind? Would you enjoy Fallout if you had an inventory size restriction instead of a weight restriction?

I've played Sims 2. Bring it on.

How is permanent blindness much different than a super mutant getting a lucky critical, bypassing your defenses, and killing you despite your maximized (missing no detail, INCLUDING psycho) defense? That's what saving and reloading are for.

They can make it as realistic as possible and I'd still want to play it.