Fallout 3, Bioshock: Videogames or not?

13BEAST said:
exsequien said:
True, FO3 is only a FPS/RPG hybrid but it's still a sequel to FO1 and FO2!
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A sequel in title, perhaps, but a spinoff in all other respects.

Dues Ex was infinitely better than Fallout 3.
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That's true and I would NEVER state anything other than that.

Damn it... now you've done it, I feel the urge to reinstall Deus Ex once again >_>

Guess the picture speak the truth: http://failurecasca.de/wp-content/uploads/duex-ex-mention.jpg
 
Wow, great OP, but talk about a quick descent into supreme geek snobbery.

I do agree, many games are more like "interactive movies" than games. Sometimes I'm happy with the trade-off. The player has to lose some freedom so that the narrative can play out. Some of my favorite games are like this.

But is it limited to this new console game scourge? I don't think so. You can't sit there and tell me Fallout didn't shunt you from one spot to another to advance the story. So did Planescape Torment. There is very little in the way of "challanging" decisions in either of those games, two of the best ever made.

Bioshock is a great game. It looks great, the story is engrossing, and it's fun to shoot things in it. Isn't that the point? Maybe I just have really low standards. I'm not sure what it takes to please you great beings. SS2 is one of my favorites of all time, but it was good for the same reasons Bioshock is, not because you may run out of psi-hypos, forcing you to make oh-so tough choices!

I was shocked the other day when I realized I really don't hate much of anything. From hanging around here, you'd think that was wrong. After all, there is apparently no other way to be validated in life outside of hating something popular.
 
Herr Mike said:
Wow, great OP, but talk about a quick descent into supreme geek snobbery.

I do agree, many games are more like "interactive movies" than games. Sometimes I'm happy with the trade-off. The player has to lose some freedom so that the narrative can play out. Some of my favorite games are like this.

But is it limited to this new console game scourge? I don't think so. You can't sit there and tell me Fallout didn't shunt you from one spot to another to advance the story. So did Planescape Torment. There is very little in the way of "challanging" decisions in either of those games, two of the best ever made.

Bioshock is a great game. It looks great, the story is engrossing, and it's fun to shoot things in it. Isn't that the point? Maybe I just have really low standards. I'm not sure what it takes to please you great beings. SS2 is one of my favorites of all time, but it was good for the same reasons Bioshock is, not because you may run out of psi-hypos, forcing you to make oh-so tough choices!

I was shocked the other day when I realized I really don't hate much of anything. From hanging around here, you'd think that was wrong. After all, there is apparently no other way to be validated in life outside of hating something popular.
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I underlined what I think the problem is with many gamers. I've been gaming long enough to know when I hear people minimizing flaws of a game with some significant problems and defending the mega devs like they are some picked on kid with no resources to simply say they have no frame of refrence to judge properly. I'm not saying that people who genuinely enjoy something flawed are wrong...no they are right for THEM since if they are happy that is the bottom line for THEM. But if you want to judge from a more objective instead of subjective point everybody needs to put down the kool aid and honesty admit/point out failings/areas that need improvement and don't make excuses attempting to slide blame & responsibility off where it is due.
 
:lol:

Thanks for diagnosing my problem.

I've played a lot of games over the years. I think I have a suitable frame of reference.
 
after reading the OP, and a few posts in the thread. Yes they are "Video Games" - i mean, Video Games do not need to challenge you that much. Pac-Man was definitely a Video Game, but all you did was avoid ghosts and eat all the dots... was there a "strategy" to avoiding the ghosts that required intelligence? Well, really the main intelligence required in that game discovering the pattern then memorizing the patterns for each level; however, I would call that type of analysis having little to do with actually playing the game, but to exploit it for maximum points.

If you want to call the games Interactive Media... ok, great, I'll call them all Video Games, like everyone else has for 30 years :)
 
Herr Mike said:
:lol:

Thanks for diagnosing my problem.

I've played a lot of games over the years. I think I have a suitable frame of reference.
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That's fine you very well may have. If you have no problems with the game then you are a satisfied customer and it's not to say that you are incorrect in your judgment...BUT there is an area where personal opinion and agreeable facts can be picked from and this is what you could consider "consensus" on where a game fails or does well. When you have a consensus by a fairly large amount of gamers on what some problems are then I think that consensus should be looked at as more than just a couple of guys with chips on their shoulders and more of some people with legit criticisms.

You can say they are in the minority and therefore who cares etc but that doesn't automatically make their criticisms invalid.
 
I think many gamers in your consensus were emotionally invested in seeing this game be a piece of crap from the minute it was announced. I reject their objectivity.

I am certainly not implying that this or any other game be above criticism. I just don't see how people can claim it is more or less an irredeemable failure.

In the end, that's the nature of the internet, to be polarizing. People pick a side to defend and make no allowances to the other side. We're all guilty of it.
 
But some issues are so blatant obvious that you have to be blind not to see them which is [not talking about you here] sadly for quite a lot of die-hard-Bethesda-Fallout3-fans the case ... its just perfect and to mention any "issue" is only nitpicking.

Thats not working either.
 
Herr Mike said:
I think many gamers in your consensus were emotionally invested in seeing this game be a piece of crap from the minute it was announced. I reject their objectivity.
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I obviously can't speak for everyone on the board but I went into playing FO 3 WANTING to love it.

The game is flawed, it really isn't possible to say that it's not. Whether or not you can overlook those flaws and enjoy playing it is all up to the individual. I played it once and probably never will do so again but if you can and if you can enjoy it more power to you.

But I've seen praise given on this board for what Bethesda DID manage to get right which I would say is fairly objective. What more are looking for in regards to objectivity?
 
Of course it's flawed, every game is flawed.

I'm just not sure there is an ounce of objectivity at this site. Nothing wrong with that, it's just that everyone gets pushed to the side they want to support so they sound like an irrational hater/lover. It's political in that way.
 
Herr Mike said:
Of course it's flawed, every game is flawed.

I'm just not sure there is an ounce of objectivity at this site. Nothing wrong with that, it's just that everyone gets pushed to the side they want to support so they sound like an irrational hater/lover. It's political in that way.
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There's no objectivity anywhere! It's such a rediculous concept. Everyone has an opinion on everything informed or not and are thus biased. No one can ever be truely objective. The only way to accomplish that would be to take someone from a primitive tribe who has never heard, nevermind seen a video game and have them play both games. Of course even there opinion would likely be biased by the order they played them in and they certainly would be qualified to judge which one was better or not. Why bring such a stupid thing up?
 
Herr Mike said:
Of course it's flawed, every game is flawed.
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But it doesn't mean it has to be flawed.

It's easier to kill a person, than save someone's life...
 
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