Fallout 3, Bioshock: Videogames or not?

^ In FFVIII you can travel a large portion of the world as soon as you get to control the academy, which is quite soon. The starship only opens a few unaccessible areas. In FFIX you can get the air chocobo fairly early to travel around the world.

I agree with your point, it's not entirely the same as Beth sanbox, but that's not what I was trying to prove either. But, just to play devil's advocate, how many of FO3 side quests and extra areas are actually in any way related to the main plotline? :P

I put tons of time into FFVIII, and beat it with everything and everyone maxed out. Doubt that I'll ever repeat that feat of endurance =)) I wish I still had the save. You'll probably need to be at least lvl 40 with best weapons and junctions to manage the final boss.
 
Ausdoerrt said:
^ In FFVIII you can travel a large portion of the world as soon as you get to control the academy, which is quite soon. The starship only opens a few unaccessible areas. In FFIX you can get the air chocobo fairly early to travel around the world.
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I either don't remember getting the air chocobo early or it was so limited in where it could land that it didn't really matter. It takes quite awhile for the world to really be completely open to you, disc 3 if I remember right. You're right about FFVIII, which is why I said it was the exception, it all but completely opens up the world to you pretty early (I just didn't remember precisely how early).

Ausdoerrt said:
But, just to play devil's advocate, how many of FO3 side quests and extra areas are actually in any way related to the main plotline? :P
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That's what I was getting at, they aren't (at least not to my knowledge). FFVIII might be (I haven't done most of the side stuff) the only FF game with a decent amount of areas/dungeons that aren't related to any character or world back story, all of the others only have a couple dungeons and sometimes some bosses.

Ausdoerrt said:
I put tons of time into FFVIII, and beat it with everything and everyone maxed out. Doubt that I'll ever repeat that feat of endurance =)) I wish I still had the save. You'll probably need to be at least lvl 40 with best weapons and junctions to manage the final boss.
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Nah, I had good junctions, all I was missing was the weapons. If I had a level or two better weapons I could have done it considering that I got to the third form with what I had.
 
The open map is actually the main reason FF8 is pretty much the only Final Fantasy other than Tactics that I like (course I liked tactics for different reasons). The junction system was a lot of fun too.

The other FF games felt like they railroading me down a certain path, never really allowing for an open world despite the big pretty overworld map.

Also, why did they make the battle system of FF12 suck so bad?
 
UncannyGarlic said:
Nah, I had good junctions, all I was missing was the weapons. If I had a level or two better weapons I could have done it considering that I got to the third form with what I had.
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Wait, that's right, in FFVIII weapons = limit breaks for Squall. He NEEDS the Lionheart. Selphie needs the Full-Cure and Wall, and Zell need My Final Heaven (that's how I beat it anyway).

The other FF games felt like they railroading me down a certain path, never really allowing for an open world despite the big pretty overworld map.
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TBH, I don't think FF games ever intended to be sandbox in the first place. Their fun is in the story and/or job system.
 
Ausdoerrt said:
UncannyGarlic said:
Nah, I had good junctions, all I was missing was the weapons. If I had a level or two better weapons I could have done it considering that I got to the third form with what I had.
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Wait, that's right, in FFVIII weapons = limit breaks for Squall. He NEEDS the Lionheart. Selphie needs the Full-Cure and Wall, and Zell need My Final Heaven (that's how I beat it anyway).

The other FF games felt like they railroading me down a certain path, never really allowing for an open world despite the big pretty overworld map.
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TBH, I don't think FF games ever intended to be sandbox in the first place. Their fun is in the story and/or job system.
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That brings back memories :)

First time I played I didn't understand the game fully. Got to the final boss and couldn't beat it.

Second time I fully mastered junctions, went and grabbed the optional GFs, and got Lionheart. Probably got the other weaps too; don't remember.

Final boss was then cake. Nobody died. Didn't even use Squall, as he wasn't picked. Think I had Selfie, the guy with the gun, and the girl with the whip whose name begins with Q.

Also FF8 music is awesome. The cathedral bit with the organ music is dead creepy. Music can really make a game.
 
^^ NP.

BTW, I LOOOOVE how we keep derailing topics ^_____^

Two or three have already turned into FF discussion threads, while some other ones are "Witcher appreciation threads". :lol:

Guess this just shows the true opinion of people about FO3 on this board :P

k9wazere said:
That brings back memories :)

First time I played I didn't understand the game fully. Got to the final boss and couldn't beat it.

Second time I fully mastered junctions, went and grabbed the optional GFs, and got Lionheart. Probably got the other weaps too; don't remember.

Final boss was then cake. Nobody died. Didn't even use Squall, as he wasn't picked. Think I had Selfie, the guy with the gun, and the girl with the whip whose name begins with Q.

Also FF8 music is awesome. The cathedral bit with the organ music is dead creepy. Music can really make a game.
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Final boss IS a cake at lv 99. Quistis is OK for some of her limit breaks, but not really my best boss choice. I turned her into a spellcaster just like Selphie, so having two in one team would be useless.

Irvine can be cool if you collect good ammo for him, but IMO he sucks so I never even leveled him up. It's all about how you junction the GFs and magic to the characters though, I guess.

Never used any GF summons other than Carbuncle and Dead Train, the animations are too annoyingly long, and the result not really worth it. Although, not as annoyingly long as, say, FFIX Arc summon (boy, a summon animation that runs almost 2 minutes...)
 
Ausdoerrt said:
Final boss IS a cake at lv 99. Quistis is OK for some of her limit breaks, but not really my best boss choice.
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IIRC, you don't get to choose. The final boss picks three of your squad at random, and you can only change if you let one of them die...

It didn't matter, because I'd levelled all the GFs, and developed everyone to have a full set of skills.

That was another mistake I made the first time round - not playing with some of them, so they stayed weak. Second time round, everyone was badass.
 
Meh, leveling is easy - junction 100 death to stat attack and go to that small island with dragons, levels go up in a flash. I pretty much just never felt the need to level Irvin at all.

Since you can attack your own team members, what I did was kill off those I didn't want on the team.
 
Ausdoerrt said:
^ LOL I'm not sure wherether I should laugh or cry, cause I'm not sure if you are being serious or not.
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Crying would be in order, because I'm sure most people who actually like FOO have no clue what a Sega CD is, or what an FMV game is.
 
^ That's easily wiki-able.

The problem is, what will Beth fanboys compare FO3 to next just to be able to say "it's a step forward"?

"FO3 is a step forward in terms of immersion compared to NES Mario games". Sweet.
 
Do you people like anything ?

I mean I agree with your criticism of Fo3 , but Bioshock was still an enjoyable game. Granted it was a dumb shooter with a thin veil of intellect to make people think they were cultured but still...fun. Main gripe I had with Bioshock is that it pretended to be something it wasn't. It TRIED to make a statement about the linear structure of games and how the player has no choice. Which was BRILLIANT. But what did it do ? It simply switched who was ordering you around ! Instead of Fontaine it was now that lady ?

Too bad, you could have made a great statement about gaming culture and philosophy, but instead became a typical representative of the unfortunate nature of our medium. In that even those who question the structure of the medium can't escape its trappings !
 
Brilliant? Hardly.

It was about as brilliant as someone saying "When you play tennis, have you noticed that you wilfully abide by the laws of the Lawn Tennis Association? Haha you have no choice but to obey!"

It's so faux-intellectual it make my brain hurt.

Being a "dumb shooter" isn't a problem. Being a badly executed shooter is. BioShock didn't do anything well.
 
Karimi said:
It would have been brilliant had it been more than a sham.

Why wasn't it a good shooter ?
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Try using the sniper and you will know it

Even with a 100 in small arms and all sniper/rifle related perks your aim is STILl always off (you can actualy see that when you shot a corpse on the ground, your bullet hits not where your scope is).

This are the things I would have at least expected as minimum.

Also the PC version was infested since the begining with "auto aim" left from the consoles. Even if you aim a bit away from the enemy your shot still hits him in the nearest body part. This is pretty anoying when you try to hit a mine next to a enemy cause you dont hit the mine ... but the enemy. Precise sniping/shoting is a bitch in Fallout 3.
 
I think the thing I'm missing the most in modern RPGs are choices. Yes, choices. In games like Deus Ex, Baldurs Gate, Vampire Bloodlines and System Shock 2 you could handle every situation differently. Plus a mix of difficulty.

Deus Ex: There were ALWAYS multiple ways/paths inside a building. A direct way where you just shoot everyone, a sneaky way where you enter via the roof and avoid enemies, another way where you hack a terminal and re-program the turrets so they shoot your enemies.... you had a lot of different dialog choices and some choices affected the entire game (remember the scene with your brother in the hotel?).

SS2: Some people already talked about this. Some situations would be easier with a certain character build (laser weapons *destroy* robots) while they would struggle with others. Plus it had this constant feeling of threat. Respawning enemies... and boy, those zombies were f'ing scary! The audio logs and Shodan really gave me the chills sometimes...

Vampire Bloodlines: Again, the game changed drastically depending on how you built your character (race, skills). Every character had different dialog choices, some of them were just wicked (one race were freaking psychos! People got sooo confused when they talked to you :D). Situations could be handled in many ways (stealth, combat, hacking...) and the story was really packing.

I miss those choices in modern games. True, FO3 is only a FPS/RPG hybrid but it's still a sequel to FO1 and FO2! It isn't as sad as Invisible War (GRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHHHH!!!) but it's pretty bad nonetheless.

I sometimes feel that the character I'm playing is a freaking moron. It often happened that I could choose 4 different answers in a dialog and I thought every one of them was stupid. The S.P.E.C.I.A.L stats didn't factor in dialog at all really. You sometimes get an extra line with a fancy [Intelligence] tag, sure, but it doesn't affect ANYTHING. The NPC congratulates you for an intelligent answer and then continues his railway dialog tree. You pretty much had 3 choices in a dialog - Yes, I accept the quest - No, I don't accept the quest - Bye.

And you always have only one way of handling things. Shooting them. There are no alternative paths in buildings/dungeons. Sneaking only helps to get a more powerful shot on enemies. The re-programming of turrets and robots is completely useless.

Yes, it's a FPS game as well. But so were System shock 2 and Deus Ex.
 
exsequien said:
True, FO3 is only a FPS/RPG hybrid but it's still a sequel to FO1 and FO2!
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A sequel in title, perhaps, but a spinoff in all other respects.

Dues Ex was infinitely better than Fallout 3.
 
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