Fallout 3 Officially Banned in Australia

[LuckyOasis]

This really sucks. I think Dr. King said it best when he said "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Obviously, he was talking about something different at the time, but the message is just as applicable to any loss of a fundamental right.

Also, Morbus... Man, I wish you wouldn't say you hate me and everyone else who might be looking forward to Fallout 3. Hate is a very strong word, and I don't think any of our differing opinions about (let's call it what it is) a video game should cause such a terrible amount of animosity.

 

[SuAside]

Bethesda cheers for the added stigmata that'll just bump up sales. yippie!

and then they'll release it with modified names for the drugs etc and hup! bonus cash!

 

[Mungrul]

Notice the question marks. I was pointing out the consequences of the situation that you seem so happy about. If you do not like game censorship then you should be against this even if it does help your vendetta against Bethesda.

Oh and another thing I didn't mention specifically: They seem to want to create editing tools, if this is truly the case then do you think them having less cash will help them work on and release these tools?

Oh don't get me wrong; I think Australia's stance on gaming and censorship is reprehensible, but at the same time I'm not going to deny that the prospect of Bethesda having to spend more money to get the game through the censors doesn't make me happy.

As far as I'm concerned, and especially given recent gameplay revelations, these idiots have no respect for Fallout and therefore should be made to pay for the injustice they've done to the franchise.

Regardng the question of the SDK, given Todd's reluctance to confirm that it's definitely happening, I tend to fall in to the "There won't be an SDK" camp.
I stated the main reason in another thread recently:
You can guarantee that one of the very first mods to be released for the game if they did release an SDK would be one allowing the player to kill children.
That's why there won't be an SDK.

 

[Makagulfazel]

I'd rather see every citizen in Australia get a purchased copy of Fallout 3 delivered to their house rather than have their right to purchase the game revoked.

There's a few things I hate more than Fallout 3. Taking away peoples' right to do what they like (Within a moral boundary) is one of them. Fuck vote-mongering politicians and fuck people that vote for them because of little, stupid shit like this.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

mad max backlash? maybe australia's tired of the setting.

 

[Bewitched]

I've just found the way to get in jail for 10 years ^_^.

 

[Holy13]

I think that if the PR and Marketing of Bethesda plays this right, they can win more from this ban more than they can loose.
If

Not that I care much about that...

I would buy 2 copies, anyway. One of '360 and one for PC

Your joking, right?

Not at all. I did the same thing for Oblivion. People keep on bagging Fallout 3 but I am really looking forward to it. I have played through Fallout 1 and 2 as well as Tactics dozens of times and although I know that there will be massive differences between Fallout 3 and the other three games, just as there is a difference between Tactics and Fallout 1 & 2, that does not mean that it will not be an enjoyable experience within a environment that I really enjoy playing. Saying that it is going to be crap without ever actually playing it seems silly to me. Besides. I like to have it on more than one platform because I find it gives a different playing experience. I can play through one type of Character on PC and a different one on the 360'

 

[terebikun]

Good news for australian gamers as each banned game is one less game left to the last game banned.

This makes no sense.

Good news for Fallout as its rape has been banned at least in one country.

Fun analogy: People shouldn't want to buy Fallout 3, just like people shouldn't want to be able to kill children. Right?

Good news for Fallout fans as FOE fans are pissed off because of this, and Fallout fans, TRUE Fallout fans hate FOE and its fans.

Really? We're whipping out our Fallout-fan-phalluses now and having a measuring contest? Joy.

Actually it's not saying much at all because in the US the government doesn't censor anything, as long as it's not going out on live prime-time TV. At a corporate level there is an amount of self-censorship, which is almost more troublesome, but it isn't government mandated.

The FCC is a government program. Basic cable is also still subject to rules; more lenient rules, but rules nonetheless.

This really sucks. I think Dr. King said it best when he said "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Obviously, he was talking about something different at the time, but the message is just as applicable to any loss of a fundamental right.

Well put (quoted?).

You can guarantee that one of the very first mods to be released for the game if they did release an SDK would be one allowing the player to kill children.
That's why there won't be an SDK.

This is extremely stupid reasoning. They are not responsible for user-created content. They removed mortal children because otherwise they wouldn't have been able to release the game, not because they are completely against the concept.

mad max backlash? maybe australia's tired of the setting.

Maybe they're bitter we stole Mel Gibson back. U-S-A!

Saying that it is going to be crap without ever actually playing it seems silly to me. Besides. I like to have it on more than one platform because I find it gives a different playing experience.

Strap yourself in if you're going to stick around the forum, you'll see this a whole lot.

 

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

If someone wants a copy of the game; they'll EASILY be able to obtain a copy of it... regardless of whether its "OMIGAWD B&!!!!11" in their country.

The same goes for getting uncensored games in Germany.


I guarantee that Australia did beth a favor though, we're going to see the GTA effect on Fo3's sales for sure. The proof? Well... see for yourself.

 

[Mungrul]

This is extremely stupid reasoning. They are not responsible for user-created content. They removed mortal children because otherwise they wouldn't have been able to release the game, not because they are completely against the concept.

"Extremely stupid"?
Are you forgetting that Bethesda have been stung by the whole user-created content thing before?

Given that precedent, you can guarantee that if they did release the SDK, if a user did use it to make kids killable, Bethesda's Fallout 3 would immediately get slapped with an AO rating.

Do some research before pulling out the ignorant, trollish flames.

 

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

"Extremely stupid"?
Are you forgetting that Bethesda have been stung by the whole user-created content thing before?

Given that precedent, you can guarantee that if they did release the SDK, if a user did use it to make kids killable, Bethesda's Fallout 3 would immediately get slapped with an AO rating.

No.

Bethesda was "stung" because if a mesh was removed, you got to see nipple-less breasts. It got slapped with an M rating because said content was already in the game.. nothing was "created" by users, only a simple mesh (the bra) removed.

Oh, and the "nudity" in question:

You couldn't even classify that as nudity on television, THERE IS NO NIPPLE. Thats the same fucking shit you'd see on a barbie doll.

You could blow up, blow in half, melt, or even incinerate children in Fo/2... and afaik that warranted an M, not AO.

Oh and: ESRB doesn't rate based on user created content, so unless the death animation (The explodey-kind, not the oblivion-esque ragdoll falling to the ground kind) was already hidden in game, like that "nudity", it wouldn't get a ratings change.

There are nudity mods for pretty much every game out there, but you don't see them having their ratings changed.



*edit*

Oh shit, nudity!


*editx2*

Just remembered; you could remove the blur in The Sims that occurred when they entered the shower/got into bed... and you'd see the exact same thing as the "nudity" in oblivion.

 

[Pieatorium]

Notice the question marks. I was pointing out the consequences of the situation that you seem so happy about. If you do not like game censorship then you should be against this even if it does help your vendetta against Bethesda.

Oh and another thing I didn't mention specifically: They seem to want to create editing tools, if this is truly the case then do you think them having less cash will help them work on and release these tools?

Oh don't get me wrong; I think Australia's stance on gaming and censorship is reprehensible, but at the same time I'm not going to deny that the prospect of Bethesda having to spend more money to get the game through the censors doesn't make me happy.

As far as I'm concerned, and especially given recent gameplay revelations, these idiots have no respect for Fallout and therefore should be made to pay for the injustice they've done to the franchise.

Regardng the question of the SDK, given Todd's reluctance to confirm that it's definitely happening, I tend to fall in to the "There won't be an SDK" camp.
I stated the main reason in another thread recently:
You can guarantee that one of the very first mods to be released for the game if they did release an SDK would be one allowing the player to kill children.
That's why there won't be an SDK.

It's the stance of one single Attourney General from South Australia who won't budge on the issue of introducing an R18 classification for games. If we had a higher rating than MA15+ then none of this controversy would be happening. For the rating to be introduced all AG's have to unanimously agree but this Michael Atkinson guy won't.

 

[Bodybag]

Do some research before pulling out the ignorant, trollish flames.

That's some pretty good advice! In addition to the mesh removal that Phil pointed out, the article you linked also mentioned this:

2) the game contains excessive blood and gore that go beyond a Teen rating. The facts are as follows:

[...]

With regard to violence, Bethesda advised the ESRB during the ratings process that violence and blood effects were "frequent" in the game - checking the box on the form that is the maximum warning. We further advised that the game contained occasional torture, vulgar acts, and gore. We gave accurate answers and descriptions about the type and frequency of violence that appears in the game. We submitted a 60-page document listing the explicit language, acts, and scenes in the game. Oblivion packaging already contains warnings for "Violence" and "Blood and Gore."

The bloody, skinned carcasses were a little over the top for Teen, apparently. Of course neither of those things would likely matter if Oblivion wasn't so popular.

 

[ookami]

Bethesda was "stung" because if a mesh was removed, you got to see nipple-less breasts.

But the TES mod tools had to be used to do that, right? If not for the mod tools being used to do that, nobody (other than the devs who put it there) would have been the wiser about the content because the removal of that piece of clothing was not featured in the actual game itself.

The point is that they got stung because of something that was done by a 'user' who was using the mod tools provided by Bethesda. Considering that Bethesda has shown a tendency to go all-or-nothing overboard in their solutions, it's not far-fetched that they would just not provide mod tools this time.

 

[sarfa]

As I understand it, editing meshes etc can't be done with the modding tools for Oblivion (and indeed, Morrowind). I think they're done in separate programs, and then saved in the folder with the same name as the old file, thus replacing it.

I'm not a modder or a programmer of any description, but I don't think TES modding tools can do anything besides stats for equipment, dialogue, areas and quests.

 

[URAGR8M8]

Well I'm pissed off. I know a lot of fans weren't going to get the game anyway, but I was planning to. I know it will be nothing compared to Fallout 1 and 2, but I still think I will get some entertainment out of it and I’ve got the cash to spare. It's Fallout and I liked Tactics way more than the average fan and I even bought BOS on PS2 just to try it and own a copy (sorry, heh).

I don't blame the OFLC since they are just doing their job albeit rather sporadically and inconsistently as my brother who works in game distribution and often has to present rating recommendations will attest. Often whether or not a game makes rating seems highly random like it depends on how the damn OFLC is feeling on a particular day – a lot of websites have been pointing this inconsistency out. The problem is that **** Michael Atkinson. One Attorney General goes renegade and ****s everyone else over. Imagine if you needed a unanimous decision for every issue presented to the US Supreme Court where so many decisions are made 5-4. One man does not need that much damn power, I used to think our separation of powers was adequate… maybe it’s not quite there.

I don't even understand how the drugs are the issue and not the violence. I really fail to see how pretending to take drugs is so much worse than pretending to shot someone. Not only that, but this just further proves the inconsistency in the ratings – Dark sector (which I have a promotional copy of as my brother's work received copies prior to its refused classification status. Also, as most others will agree, the game is not even that violent compared to many others which did make it into Australia uncensored such as Condemned 2) is banned for dismemberment and yet it is clear from screenshots that we can blow off limbs in Fallout 3. What's more both of the original Fallout games made it into Australia without censorship - children were intact and you could kill them and even the poms ended up with no children versions when usually the Brits don't get censorship like us Aussies.

Maybe it’s the current climate in this case because of the increased levels of ice addiction here (although as of late this issue hasn't drawn headlines and I wouldn't be surprised if the worst is over), but the game should not be outright banned. I consider myself to be quite a social libertarian (not your 'we have magical natural rights to do whatever the hell we want kind', but I do believe in most cases people can decide what is best for themselves) and I know that in 99% of cases censorship doesn't work. What happened in Japan when they banned pornography showing close ups of vaginas and insertion? They came up with stuff which is 10 times more degrading than your typical porn and now it's popular amongst large numbers of pornography loving Japanese. I understand that there are the extremes where we really don't need to go, but this is a video game and what you are seeing is 100% make-believe. I'm not taking drugs and I'm not killing people and I'm not even watching real instances of such events and as an adult I should decide whether or not I should play the game.

We need an R18+ rating for games here and soon, maybe becoming a Republic will entail a Bill of Rights and we will finally get one (only a good decade to wait then, hmpf). It can't be argued that this is being done for the children, Fallout 3 should be an R18+ game so children shouldn’t be playing it. The parents (as many others here have pointed out) should start parenting. No more BS excuses that they can't stop their children (in most cases because they can't be their cool friends anymore), parents need to regulate what games their children play until they are old enough to decide for themselves. If parents understand that an R or an X rated porno is not something their children should watch than they should realise that an R18+ game is not something their young kids should play. I suspect the obstacle to this is how games are still viewed. I guarantee you that Michael Atkinson thinks only kids play games and therefore this stuff is intended solely for them. Last time I checked the average age for a gamer was around 30.

PS Congrats to anyone who could be bothered reading my rant, lol.

 

[Mungrul]

Nice to see Bodybag deftly skipping over point 1 in his quote. For those of you who may have missed it, here's the dritical line:

The ESRB has concluded that the game deserves a rating of Mature because: 1) partial nudity in the PC version of the game can be created by modders

Christ, it's like taking candy from retards.

 

[Ranne]

Christ, it's like taking candy from retards.

Lol, I dare you to try.

 

[Mungrul]

But that's the point: you generally get covered in all manner of objectionable bodily fluids, and it's an unpleasant experience overall, but there's no doubt you're going to succeed.

 

[Per]

You can't take candy from retards. They just run away, and people in the vicinity come running to attack you.