[PCE]el_Prez
Vault Fossil
the problem with that would be that tanks require an entire crew to operate.
Vault Fossil
the problem with that would be that tanks require an entire crew to operate.
This is true.
However, you could drive it with enough practice behind the controls. Considering the modern day M1A2 Abrams has a 4 man crew consisting of a driver, a commander and 2 gunners.
If you cut out the gunners and the commander, you can still get the thing moving. Not that it would be all that fast, and you couldn't use the cannon or other system goodies from the cockpit... it would still be faster than walking.
However, you could drive it with enough practice behind the controls. Considering the modern day M1A2 Abrams has a 4 man crew consisting of a driver, a commander and 2 gunners.
If you cut out the gunners and the commander, you can still get the thing moving. Not that it would be all that fast, and you couldn't use the cannon or other system goodies from the cockpit... it would still be faster than walking.
I don't see what all the uproar is about cars...
What is more/less likely to survive nuclear holocaust? A flesh and blood life form? Or a vehicle made of metal?
Yes, cars should be rare, but there are millions of cars in the United States...they would not ALL just vanish. I can understand that within the Fallout universe most vehicles would be scrapped and used for parts, but:
1. SOME of these millions would have remained intact. Who knows, maybe someone's house and/or garage got burried in a desert sandstorm, burried in a landslide and nobody has even touched.
2. There are enough tech-smart people in the fallout world to rebuild many of these cars from the existing parts. There are probably some production manuals lying around somehwere that may have been saved even. What happened to all the hundreds of thousands of mechanic's garages/shop across the country? All their books/manuals tools vanished? EVERY SINGLE ONE?
3. There are cars TODAY that have been rotting in junkyards for decades that probably would work with no more than 1 part and 30 minutes of a mechanics time. Not many..but they are there.
4. Finding an alternate fuel source than gas for a car is not all that difficult (although the Oil companies want you to believe otherwise). Today, there are electric, water and oil powered cars (Kim Basinger drives around in a car that she powers with left over fry grease from fast food resteraunts)...
Now, I don't want to see Fallout turn into the 405 Freeway during rush hour, but I don't see a cars being anything like spotting Bigfoot...
What is more/less likely to survive nuclear holocaust? A flesh and blood life form? Or a vehicle made of metal?
Yes, cars should be rare, but there are millions of cars in the United States...they would not ALL just vanish. I can understand that within the Fallout universe most vehicles would be scrapped and used for parts, but:
1. SOME of these millions would have remained intact. Who knows, maybe someone's house and/or garage got burried in a desert sandstorm, burried in a landslide and nobody has even touched.
2. There are enough tech-smart people in the fallout world to rebuild many of these cars from the existing parts. There are probably some production manuals lying around somehwere that may have been saved even. What happened to all the hundreds of thousands of mechanic's garages/shop across the country? All their books/manuals tools vanished? EVERY SINGLE ONE?
3. There are cars TODAY that have been rotting in junkyards for decades that probably would work with no more than 1 part and 30 minutes of a mechanics time. Not many..but they are there.
4. Finding an alternate fuel source than gas for a car is not all that difficult (although the Oil companies want you to believe otherwise). Today, there are electric, water and oil powered cars (Kim Basinger drives around in a car that she powers with left over fry grease from fast food resteraunts)...
Now, I don't want to see Fallout turn into the 405 Freeway during rush hour, but I don't see a cars being anything like spotting Bigfoot...
That's a valid point, there should be plenty of cars lying around, however nuclear explosions do a nice job of flinging heavy objects around like feathers.
Your best bet to find vehicles intact would probably be in large car garages and underground parking structures which would most likely survive the explosions better than most buildings.
Of course, you still have the problem that pieces may wear out, rust, or decay from lack of use. Best examples being tires, fan belts, etc. But if the environment is shielded enough you might be able to find something working.
As for the manuals... I don't really know, I doubt paper handles nuclear explosions well. On the other hand, there are obviously some books around in FO 1 and 2, so it's not too far fetched to see something along the lines of a car manual or instruction manual survive.
Your best bet to find vehicles intact would probably be in large car garages and underground parking structures which would most likely survive the explosions better than most buildings.
Of course, you still have the problem that pieces may wear out, rust, or decay from lack of use. Best examples being tires, fan belts, etc. But if the environment is shielded enough you might be able to find something working.
As for the manuals... I don't really know, I doubt paper handles nuclear explosions well. On the other hand, there are obviously some books around in FO 1 and 2, so it's not too far fetched to see something along the lines of a car manual or instruction manual survive.
SimpleMinded
Vault Fossil
Um... The problem isn't really the amount of cars lying around. Instead it lies in, how long have these cars been dormant? 100+ years? It would take some good maintenance to get those things working again 
. In addition, FUEL is a big problem. Very few cars were converted to the more abundant energy cell before the war since production had to be diverted to fueling the war effort. So cars should not have a big presence in the world.
Sigh, I love reading all these post-nuclear war books. I think I'm finally getting the ability to keep up in these arguements.
. In addition, FUEL is a big problem. Very few cars were converted to the more abundant energy cell before the war since production had to be diverted to fueling the war effort. So cars should not have a big presence in the world. Sigh, I love reading all these post-nuclear war books. I think I'm finally getting the ability to keep up in these arguements
.No, I'm agreeing with you. There should be a lot of cars around.
I'm just saying that the good majority of the cars out on the streets and highways might be...
A. Torched if they are close to ground zero of a nuke.
B. Thrown around if they are close to the nuke.
C. Crushed or otherwise damaged in the rubble.
D. Will decay with time and the elements.
But that your best bet of finding a working car that is in halfway decent shape would be in areas where they were less exposed to the elements and sweeping destruction that comes with war.
Sure, you might find a bunch of cars lining the streets, you might not. Your chance of getting any of them running is slim because they've just been sitting there in a radiated, sandy, and otherwise hostile place.
It's also worth noting that there are almost no areas of California that are really in good condition. The boneyard was a mish-mash of burned out buildings, half-destroyed houses and a few standing structures that were relatively unharmed.
San Fran was in pretty good condition, but I would chalk that up to the Shi and Hubologists probably restoring what they could. Plus it's only a small part of San Fran, the rest may be totalled.
Reno was largely destroyed except for a few of the sturdier structures. Again though, it's only a small section of the city.
I'm just saying that the good majority of the cars out on the streets and highways might be...
A. Torched if they are close to ground zero of a nuke.
B. Thrown around if they are close to the nuke.
C. Crushed or otherwise damaged in the rubble.
D. Will decay with time and the elements.
But that your best bet of finding a working car that is in halfway decent shape would be in areas where they were less exposed to the elements and sweeping destruction that comes with war.
Sure, you might find a bunch of cars lining the streets, you might not. Your chance of getting any of them running is slim because they've just been sitting there in a radiated, sandy, and otherwise hostile place.
It's also worth noting that there are almost no areas of California that are really in good condition. The boneyard was a mish-mash of burned out buildings, half-destroyed houses and a few standing structures that were relatively unharmed.
San Fran was in pretty good condition, but I would chalk that up to the Shi and Hubologists probably restoring what they could. Plus it's only a small part of San Fran, the rest may be totalled.
Reno was largely destroyed except for a few of the sturdier structures. Again though, it's only a small section of the city.
I never said that any and all cars would be easy to fix and get running. Only that there would be more than a lot of people in here seem to be saying..
Even if only .001% of all cars were left in good enough condition to be repaired that's 1000 cars out of every million.
I don't know how many millions of cars there are in the US, but I'm sure its quite a bit...
Even if only .001% of all cars were left in good enough condition to be repaired that's 1000 cars out of every million.
I don't know how many millions of cars there are in the US, but I'm sure its quite a bit...
OnTheBounce
Still Mildly Glowing
While the large number of cars that may/may not exist in the FO universe might look as though it would mean that there would undoubtedly have to be at least a few in working condition or salvageable the problem is that cars contain a large number of parts that are rather vulnerable to deterioration and so the problem is the effect that time has on all vehicles simultaneously.
There would undoubtedly be quite a few vehicles that would be in fairly sound shape, however, the supply of parts would be miniscule. For instance, you'd need things like tires, spark plug wires, wiring harnesses and so forth that contained rubber and/or plastic that had deteriorated. However, even those parts lying around in parts storage depots would be deteriorating, if at a slower rate than those lying about in the harsh Wasteland sun.
Remember that when FO2 rolled around it had been nearly 160 years since the "Great Flame Deluge". So, not only is the war itself a factor, but nearly two centuries of neglect. This would be even more of a factor in FO3, although JES and Co. might not choose to let two biblical generations pass between it and the end of FO2.
Of course, these arguments involving realism are only of dubious relevance. It's playability and balance that matter. So, with that in mind, I have to say that while I'd like to see something like FO2's Highwayman in FO3, getting it should be a memorable even that
the player spent a great deal of effort on, not a simple trip to the used vehicle lot down the road a stretch.
Cheers,
OTB
There would undoubtedly be quite a few vehicles that would be in fairly sound shape, however, the supply of parts would be miniscule. For instance, you'd need things like tires, spark plug wires, wiring harnesses and so forth that contained rubber and/or plastic that had deteriorated. However, even those parts lying around in parts storage depots would be deteriorating, if at a slower rate than those lying about in the harsh Wasteland sun.
Remember that when FO2 rolled around it had been nearly 160 years since the "Great Flame Deluge". So, not only is the war itself a factor, but nearly two centuries of neglect. This would be even more of a factor in FO3, although JES and Co. might not choose to let two biblical generations pass between it and the end of FO2.
Of course, these arguments involving realism are only of dubious relevance. It's playability and balance that matter. So, with that in mind, I have to say that while I'd like to see something like FO2's Highwayman in FO3, getting it should be a memorable even that
the player spent a great deal of effort on, not a simple trip to the used vehicle lot down the road a stretch.
Cheers,
OTB
Ripper said:NgInE said:altough bicycles sound like a good idea...they're just not cool enough
but yeah, using steam, sun of man powered forms of transportation sound fare enough.
steam ? water is too valuable, remember in FO1, the vault dweller had to leave vault 13 becos he needed to find the water purification chip. Water is still important as hell.
Well 'pure' water is valuable, but non-pure water would still work. As for cars in general, they'll be everywhere, Junktown had its walls made out of cars, its working ones that should be somewhat rare.