Yeah, Mass Effect is way better than Fallout 3, but still far behind Fallout 1 or 2. It is basically KotOR without Star Wars setting, with one of the most unoriginal sci-fi setting I've seen so far, thus making it look like a poor quality B-class movie. I don't and never will understand people who play it, but it is still better than Fallout 3, which is based on one of the best settings in the gaming industry. That tells a lot about it's quality, I think.
Fallout 3 vs. others
- Thread starter 1nk
- Start date
it just tells about the bad shape Roleplaying games are in at the moment as they tend to go more the route of "interactive movies" instead of offering you to play roles where you have to feel out a characters motives and actualy have to "role play" [in the sense of not to do what YOU want but what would fitt the character you role play. Think about it like playing Indians and Cowboys where you have to assume the role].
Some might not like The Witcher for its setting or gameplay but it definetly is at least trying to exaclty let you do that, Roleplay. It is in that sense similar to Planescape albeit not with the same quality and number of good dialogues.
It is interesting to see graphic and technology make huge progress but beeing a limit to the quality of role playing. LIke voice acting for example. I mean many played Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 and it was never a issue that only a few characters had voice acting. Same in Fallout 1 and 2. Now it seems that every game needs a voice for every character regardless if he even hass something to say or not. Thus we get most of the time "mediocre" voices. And that in Bethesdas case is even worse as they tend to throw out a lot of money on "stars" with either no or only small experience in voice acting instead of eventualy hiring people that have experience.
I have not played Mass Effect and I dont even say that it can not be a fun game but from what I have seen the only thing I personaly woulid probably enjoy are the graphic and probably the setting. But the idea of interactive movies is not what I prefer for RPGs. I mean if the only reason to pick a Role is to play a sniper instead of a stealth character then one can as well just play some ego shooter in multiplayer.
Some might not like The Witcher for its setting or gameplay but it definetly is at least trying to exaclty let you do that, Roleplay. It is in that sense similar to Planescape albeit not with the same quality and number of good dialogues.
It is interesting to see graphic and technology make huge progress but beeing a limit to the quality of role playing. LIke voice acting for example. I mean many played Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 and it was never a issue that only a few characters had voice acting. Same in Fallout 1 and 2. Now it seems that every game needs a voice for every character regardless if he even hass something to say or not. Thus we get most of the time "mediocre" voices. And that in Bethesdas case is even worse as they tend to throw out a lot of money on "stars" with either no or only small experience in voice acting instead of eventualy hiring people that have experience.
I have not played Mass Effect and I dont even say that it can not be a fun game but from what I have seen the only thing I personaly woulid probably enjoy are the graphic and probably the setting. But the idea of interactive movies is not what I prefer for RPGs. I mean if the only reason to pick a Role is to play a sniper instead of a stealth character then one can as well just play some ego shooter in multiplayer.
Multidirectional
Mildly Dipped
Dialogue system alone in Mass Effect stops it from being RPG - you don't know what you character will say half the time. I got this game based on pretty much everyone around me going apeshit over it at the time of it's release, when I was buying new PC at the same time and was very dissapointed. However just couple of days ago I tried to get into it again, and finally managed to be entertained by it. For that I had to stop looking at it as an RPG, and just enjoy it for what it is - third person sci-fi shooter with lots of dialogue. It's obviously a better made game than Fallout 3, with better voice acting, writing (not great though), animations, graphics and soundtrack. It is a better game than F3, yeah, it's just not a better RPG. F3 is still more of RPG than ME, even if it sucks at that.
phildog said:
Can you go "Fuck it" and join Saren?
No, you can't.
phildog
First time out of the vault
Mikael Grizzly said:
Can you go "fuck it" and join the enclave?
Mikael Grizzly said:
But you can't avoid being chewed out by the Council no matter how much of a pussy you are.
Not to mention how nobody reacts with actual disgust when you flagrantly violate the rules.
"Oh my God, you just violently slaughtered an entire colony even when I gave you a way to stop them without killing them!"
"It was the only way"
"I guess you're right, it was the only way"
Not to mention how nobody reacts with actual disgust when you flagrantly violate the rules.
"Oh my God, you just violently slaughtered an entire colony even when I gave you a way to stop them without killing them!"
"It was the only way"
"I guess you're right, it was the only way"
S
Stag
Guest
Mass Effect's dialogue system really, really infuriated me. Not only was it completely unnecessary, it was very ineffectual.
haloeclipse
First time out of the vault
WHile mass effects dialogue system was pretty crappy, and the combat too easy (it didnt matter what weapon you used, all could get the job done with ease), it had a very detailed universe that allowed you to really create a background for your character and had enough options throughout the game to really flesh out that character, as well as act out how that character would behave.
I played a good character with a scarred past. He would do the right thing, but when he set his mind to something, he was very brutal and unforgiving, and with the background I set up the game gave me many chances to do what that character would do, and the crew would respond to my actions. It wasnt a perfect system, but neither was F1 or F2
But its a redundant comparison.
Its apples and oranges. I cant remember how many times I was limited in dialogue options in F1 and F2, or how I did something pretty major and had little to no effect on the npcs around me.
ME is an immersive action adventure game with RPG elements, and at most could be called an action rpg. Fallout is an RPG. 2 different worlds, that have some of the same pieces. Its pointless to compare the two. Just like its pointless to compare F3 to Fallout or Fallout 2, because F3 is an action rpg (and fails on both those counts) and F1 and F2 are RPG's.
At least mass effect doesnt sodomize the beloved franchise though
I played a good character with a scarred past. He would do the right thing, but when he set his mind to something, he was very brutal and unforgiving, and with the background I set up the game gave me many chances to do what that character would do, and the crew would respond to my actions. It wasnt a perfect system, but neither was F1 or F2
But its a redundant comparison.
Its apples and oranges. I cant remember how many times I was limited in dialogue options in F1 and F2, or how I did something pretty major and had little to no effect on the npcs around me.
ME is an immersive action adventure game with RPG elements, and at most could be called an action rpg. Fallout is an RPG. 2 different worlds, that have some of the same pieces. Its pointless to compare the two. Just like its pointless to compare F3 to Fallout or Fallout 2, because F3 is an action rpg (and fails on both those counts) and F1 and F2 are RPG's.
At least mass effect doesnt sodomize the beloved franchise though
phildog said:
Point is, it's impossible to join the Enclave, since they only accept pure-blood Americans born within itself, and unless you want to die a horrible death, you have to defeat them, what with the worldwide genocide and all.
In Mass Effect Saren INVITES you to join, yet your only options are "I'd rather not", "No" and "Fuck no". Same with Wrex's dillema and Krogen sterility: "Shoot Wrex", "Wrex, we need to stop them", "Wrex we need to blow it up". Where's the option to download the research data and pass them to Wrex?
haloeclipse
First time out of the vault
Mikael Grizzly said:
Thats kinda the exact same option. If you join Saren there is a GALACTIC genocide. Both of them allow you to say no in a number of ways, but in the end you are still forced to say no.
Both of them set up a scenario in that if you join them, your screwed.
Mikael Grizzly said:
The so called "fake choices" which Bioware is famous for. The writting is usualy "not bad" and even mosto f the time good, but it still doesnt change that it are most of the time only fake choices you get that have either only a very small impact or even never I mean its just barely a dialog if you have the option between "no, I dont join" or "go FU$%* your self!"
I really would like to see RPGs finally steer away from such kind of choices and at least sometimes offer some real decisions for the character were he gets a chance to completely tourn against his old habits eventualy (if he gets a reason that is important enough or makes sense).
It was 2003, when I was enchanted by the game "Morrowind". I'd grown a fan of fantasy settings and Morrowind allowed me to be the mysterious stranger in a deep world with endless mysteries. The only thing that really bugged me was the most annoying combat system I'd ever seen, but as graphics don't bother many RPG-players, that didn't bother me enough.
I'm the kinda guy that really gets into histories of games but I'm sorry to say I never played TES1 or 2. I do know that when Oblivion came out, I was very, very excited.
I remember playing it, thinking the graphics were amazing, running through that cave, being amazed by the first shot of the outside world, thinking everything was new and deep... it went wrong when I thought to myself "Ye know what, this character isn't well designed. I'll make a new one..."
I knew which turns to take, I noticed everything was the same, I noticed combat was actually pretty boring, it was shallow, it lacked depth, basically it was a piece of shit.
I feel Bethesda has gone from an independent company that made great games, to an EA duplicate: No art, just business. A game that looks good and revolutionary at first so people will buy it, and then as people slowly begin to realise they've been robbed of their money, they release a new game!
Fallout 3 does no justice to the Fallout series. It's not a BAD game, it has its moments, but it's just a Bethesda game. They treated Fallout with no respect and just went ahead and took the idea to create a nice trailer, good graphics so we'd go ahead and buy it. Where's the deep story? Where's the history?
The whole hype behind games nowadays is ridiculous anyway. Look at Crysis. A steaming pile of shit, that game was. What does gamespot say? 9.5 or so. That article was released the same day Crytek released it's game. Crytek is an appropriate name. It made all the buyers CRY for spending 70 bucks on their games.
Bethesda is definitely messing up their learning curve. I hope they sell the rights to some other company, because otherwise I fear the worst for the Fallout-series.
I'm the kinda guy that really gets into histories of games but I'm sorry to say I never played TES1 or 2. I do know that when Oblivion came out, I was very, very excited.
I remember playing it, thinking the graphics were amazing, running through that cave, being amazed by the first shot of the outside world, thinking everything was new and deep... it went wrong when I thought to myself "Ye know what, this character isn't well designed. I'll make a new one..."
I knew which turns to take, I noticed everything was the same, I noticed combat was actually pretty boring, it was shallow, it lacked depth, basically it was a piece of shit.
I feel Bethesda has gone from an independent company that made great games, to an EA duplicate: No art, just business. A game that looks good and revolutionary at first so people will buy it, and then as people slowly begin to realise they've been robbed of their money, they release a new game!
Fallout 3 does no justice to the Fallout series. It's not a BAD game, it has its moments, but it's just a Bethesda game. They treated Fallout with no respect and just went ahead and took the idea to create a nice trailer, good graphics so we'd go ahead and buy it. Where's the deep story? Where's the history?
The whole hype behind games nowadays is ridiculous anyway. Look at Crysis. A steaming pile of shit, that game was. What does gamespot say? 9.5 or so. That article was released the same day Crytek released it's game. Crytek is an appropriate name. It made all the buyers CRY for spending 70 bucks on their games.
Bethesda is definitely messing up their learning curve. I hope they sell the rights to some other company, because otherwise I fear the worst for the Fallout-series.
haloeclipse said:
No, Saren explicitly states that it's the only way (as he sees it) for organics to survive, and if he (and you) seem useful, they will be spared.
pipboy-x11
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Ekkoe said:
Gamespot is just full of shit. They gave 8.5 to Far Cry 2 - although the game sucks so much that there is even a site devoted to how much Far Cry 2 sucks. I've played FC2 for about an hour and stopped due to incredible boredom - I couldn't believe a game could suck that much. I've started googling for "far cry 2 sucks" and found the site I've mentioned, so now I know that I'm not alone
BTW, if take a look at the review page, you'll find a list of other sites' "reviews". I think the whole idea of gaming sites is not giving you independent opinions anymore, but rather selling you games, that's all.
Multidirectional
Mildly Dipped
Yeah, Crysis isn't exactly the best game ever, but it is a masterpiece compared to Far Cry 2. I was amazed at how badly that game sucked, I just couldn't believe it. Some of the design decisions are so horrible it seems they had to actually TRY to make that game this bad. Enemie checkpoints that respawn so quickly sometimes it happens while I'm still at the goddamn checkpoint picking up ammo, malaria nonsense, me silently killing a single enemie in the dark while no one is around to see it and somehow alerting the whole base? Oh god.. Only way Ubisoft people wouldn't deserve getting their asses kicked for this is if Far Cry 2 would be released as a free engine demo.
Only way current ratings for games make sense is if reviewers play these games for about half an hour and then go and fuck these free hookers who brought them game copies from developers.
Only way current ratings for games make sense is if reviewers play these games for about half an hour and then go and fuck these free hookers who brought them game copies from developers.
A few months back there were folks on here talking about how great Farcry 2 was compared to Fallout.
...
I think a lot of the 'greatest RPGs' that people talk about have that same 'fake choices' quality.
Personally, RPG of the year for me was Chrono Trigger for DS.
...
I think a lot of the 'greatest RPGs' that people talk about have that same 'fake choices' quality.
Personally, RPG of the year for me was Chrono Trigger for DS.
drewlee865
First time out of the vault
The only people I've seen who don't like Fallout 3 are people on boards like these. Everyone else loves it. Even people who have played the originals.
Multidirectional
Mildly Dipped
drewlee865 said:
Or people who claim to have played them. And how do you know that everyone else loves it? I know quite a few people from my circle that aren't NMA members and who dislike Fallout 3.
haloeclipse
First time out of the vault
Mikael Grizzly said:
but your still screwed if you join him. You are exposed to the full extent of the galatic genocide right before your final confrontation where it is made very very clear that there is no surviving the reapers, any thing that did, was out of luck not because of usefullness to the reapers. With the info given to the player there is zero logical reason why anyone would want to join saren other than suicide.
On a side note, I dont see the difference in false choice and no choice. Both are restricting the player in a manner that can break the roleplaying aspect.
what about psycho decisions? Crazy undefined situations. If it would be unfesiable to "survive" make it still a option. I always had the impression thats what RPGs are about.haloeclipse said: