Fallout 3 won't be Morrowind-with-guns

[Roshambo]

Give me a reason why I shouldn't ban your clueles, rude, and possibly trolling ass right now. It's obvious you haven't read the discussions previous, else you might not spout such unedcuated drivel that has been debunked almost two weeks before you fumbled into this discussion.

Innovation isn't in making everything the same. Aside from that, I could repeat myself, but then I would be entirely in a poor mood and I would cook up some rather crude avatar for you.

 

[Ancient Oldie]

Only thing more annoying than Fallout fanatics ranting about how FO3 will suck, especially when it hasn't even gone past the planning stages, is bethsoft fanboys claims that FO3 will be awesome. More annoying than that is someone who makes out their favorite game company to be the industry equivalent of Jesus.

"Gee, they're going to change every single aspect of Fallout and it's going to be great. Hallellujah!!!"

What do you want me to do? Get on my knees and pray to Bethsoft, or do you want me to scruff'n'puff while I'm down there?

 

[NeVeRLiFt]

Early on this thread some people mentioned Neverwinter Night and how Fallout 3 could work with a 3D view like it uses.
I think Neverwinter Night is ugly compared to most 2D games. It is a good and I like it, but its different and not something I want for Fallout 3. People wanting this should move on and be happy with Stalker. You want pretty 3D graphics and FPS view then get Doom 3 Fallout 3 needs made the right way and Temple of Elemental Evil proves 2D and Turn-based can look great and kickass!


Poor guy that thought Morrowind used SPECIAL really needs help good grief!

 

[Ancient Oldie]

I believe ToEE uses 3D graphics for the character models (correct me if I'm wrong), and it's a good example for FO3 in only the categories you mentioned; as it was weak in all other aspects. I recently lost another batch of save files to bugs. My opinion of the game has dropped considerably since I initially played it.

It's good to see Troika continuing the Interplay legacy of buggy game releases...

 

[NeVeRLiFt]

I believe ToEE uses 3D graphics for the character models (correct me if I'm wrong), and it's a good example for FO3 in only the categories you mentioned; as it was weak in all other aspects. I recently lost another batch of save files to bugs. My opinion of the game has dropped considerably since I initially played it.

It's good to see Troika continuing the Interplay legacy of buggy game releases...

I have not had that problem. The game has patch v2.0 out and there is the fan made patch also that really fixes alot and adds somethings.

Edit: If you want call the game buggy then blame it on the publisher Atari for rushing it and making them break stuff and remove from the game at the last minute

 

[Ancient Oldie]

I have the latest patch applied, although I haven't tried the fan-made one. The game is still very buggy, even when you exclude the bugs that cause the program to crash. Plus, I can't remember a game that had shittier pathfinding than ToEE. You have to babysit the party from screen to screen, while putting up with several lags on the way to your destination.

My theory is that it takes an exponential amount of processing power to make a character follow a straight path, never mind when you have to go around an object. That's why it's good to have one or two of your characters amble about aimlessly, or just not move at all. It relieves the strain on system resources, and it gives them more character than what a developer can ever possible give them.

"Boy that Orin fellow sure is stubborn. He doesn't even follow my commands!"

Nothing says "Play me again!!!" like putting up with shitty pathfinding between the countless, uninspired, generic fedex and dialog tree quests that you embark upon in the game, only to have your saves become obsolete after the game decides to crash whenever you reload those particular saves.

As for Atari, hey, that's life. It sucks that Troika has to take the reputation hit for it. Arcanum wasn't exactly bug-free either. For several years now, the trend in PC gaming is rushed, bug-laden releases followed by several quick and dirty patches; if that. I still can't understand why people still buy PC games when they first come out. If everyone waited a couple of months, I truly believe it would dissuade companies from rushing releases.

Well, I guess my ToEE rant has come to an end. Had to get it out of my system. Don't get me wrong, the game has its strong points. it just sucks that another game with great potential was ruined because they wanted to get it out to the public as quickly as possible.

I really hope that Bethesda doesn't do the same with FO3. In fact, that would be on the top of my request list: invest as much time into the game as possible, just don't rush a buggy and halfway completed game onto the market.

 

[Claw]

The fact that somehow the grace of god has come down and taken this game which we all love and handed it to a capable studio should, in itself, be enough to satisfy everyone on this board.

May I paraphrase that as "I want to be anally violated by a raging Deathclaw"

Polygon counts are quickly becoming a thing of the past.
This means a vivid, 3d Wasteland.
and it'll be a BIG wasteland!

They are not, and then there are other things to worry about. The polycount necessary to increase detail tends to raise exponentially, and for really good graphics new games demand shaders and whatnot, i.e. you need to buy the newest hardware or it looks like the old shit.
Fallout was pretty beautiful at it's time - and is still looking good - because it was painted that way. Simple as that. No complex hardware needed, and no worries about framerates.
A big wasteland that also looks good could easily end up as Mor-*load*-rowi-*load*-nd. Fuck that.

If done right, it could look cool of course, look at Van Buren, it made a good impression on me, though of course it wasn't meant to be viewed from first person.

 

[Murdoch]

I really hope that Bethesda doesn't do the same with FO3. In fact, that would be on the top of my request list: invest as much time into the game as possible, just don't rush a buggy and halfway completed game onto the market.

I would like to friendly amend this excellent statement to "invest as much time into the game as necessary", lest we end up with Dukem Nukem!

 

[IMissLark]

A big wasteland that also looks good could easily end up as Mor-*load*-rowi-*load*-nd. Fuck that.

A-fucking-men to that. Morrowind was slower then Interplay's ragged death sigh.

well I think we should all assume that SPECIAL will be changed.

I don't see why. It would be akin to making a D&D game and changing all the rules.

Oh wait, it's been done.

It's to be honest a scary trend of inhereting a liscense and tearing it to pieces, selectively applying what you want to an engine already in development. Safe to say if this is done, there will be bloodshed.

Guess what, video games are expensive to make. They're stressful to make; and MOST importantly they're risky business.

If you don't like meat, cook vegetarian.

The fact that somehow the grace of god has come down and taken this game which we all love and handed it to a capable studio should, in itself, be enough to satisfy everyone on this board.

No, no it's really not. Unlike you, most of us aren't hairline deep in cocaine chanting "It's gonna get better" with a naive optimism reserved for the very young, very old, and very stupid. The Fallout fanbase has opened up their mouth for Fallouty goodness only to be continually orally gangraped by misconception after abhoration. I liked Fallout Tactics, and you'll find that there are others, out there, too. I think while it had faults, it was fun. But you'll find that none of us liked BOS. TO. THE. MAN. I'm sure if anyone came out and said "I liked BOS" Rosh would have eaten them so fast there wouldn't even be time for blood to hit the floor. BOS is just a slap in the face to everyone who waited and waited for Fallout 3. A lot of people have just given up on the franchise. A few of them are so dead-set now against any further necrophilia of the radiated corpse of Fallout that they would risk not getting a good game in order to prevent getting a bad game. Others still wait for a bad game, knowing that after a long list of bad games it might be expected that we will see a bad game. But these are by no means the majority. What you see, trolls on Elder Scrolls, are people who are sick and tired of being offered warm urine as chilled champaigne. They won't take a shit game with a good game's subtitle. That is a common thread, the difference is that some of us haven't given up hope. Some of us hold now, a guarded optimism. There is a potential but what we need is certainty and boldness now. Fuck the market, the lowest common denomenator market that got Slipknot near a Fallout game. We've seen that that doesn't work. No, fuck the market, fuck it with innovation, fuck it with vision, fuck with a good game. Fuck the market, because if you don't, you're really fucking yourself. You can deliver a good game full of new ideas mixed with true and proven design, or you can deliver a new game. The Fallout community is a tremendous, tremendous asset and it does not need to be treated with kid gloves. Just don't slap it around with a mace, and you will have a fanbase that loves and adores you. Don't believe me? Look at JE, everytime he makes an appearance here, he's lauded. Garrett. ANYONE REMOTELY INVOLVED IN FALLOUT WHO COMES HERE TO TALK IS RESPECTED AND APPRECIATED. There was a guy here who wiped down the monitor that Chris Taylor once used, and he was respected. Yes, some Fallout fans are critical. Take that as a positive, that they give a shit, that they are in it to the finish. Some are over critical. Ignore them. Don't label all of us by the actions of a few, and don't even label the few. They've been through as much as any fan can take before snapping. And don't you dare register and tell the Fallout fans to blindly accept a new game and sing hallejulah. This is not the time for mass hallucinations about the orgasms we will get when we open the box. We are pragmatic. We want answers. We want assurances. Because if we go in charging with blind optimism and they fuck it up, it will be an even more cynical, even more acrid fanbase. The action to take now is to continue with gaurded optimism. Too much criticism, and they will make the game despite the fanbase and not for or with it. Not enough, and they'll begin to wonder if there really is a fanbase and consider cancelling it. No, we need to be assertive without begin agressive, to be concerned without becoming condescending, because if they're listening, then we need to be speaking. And if they're not, then we need to start screaming.

And seriously think about what they can do for the franchise.

It's not that we haven't.

It's just that we're worried about what they can do TO the franchise.

And after previewing that, it is way, way too long.

 

[scruffpuff]

Ok well you guys are right in that I didn't read most of the thread and just weighed in on this issue. sorry about that I'm just eager to get in on the conversation.

I've played 1 Bethesda game, Morrowind, which I had for PC and hated (I only started the game 2 times) but recently I picked it up for the Xbox when I got a new TV and couldn't find any good RPGs to play. Yeah I guess that's retarded but whatever, it's fun to play on a big tv sitting on my couch where the load times can be spent napping.

I'm not a Bethesda fan boy or anything like that though. I only really love 3 rpgs, Fallout 1 & 2 and then Sega's version of Shadowrun for the Genesis.

I've played alot in between but I like those because they are gritty and violent and full of guns etc.

I figure I shouldn't say any more on this, I'll just go back and read the rest of this thread. But I was only trying to get you guys excited about the possibility that something new and great could come from this studio. And that's not because I'm obsessed with their games or whatever the fuck you might think, it's because they're a big studio with money and resources and if anyone CAN do this properly it's someone like Bethesda.

 

[Pope Viper]

Ok well you guys are right in that I didn't read most of the thread and just weighed in on this issue. sorry about that I'm just eager to get in on the conversation.

I've played 1 Bethesda game, Morrowind, which I had for PC and hated (I only started the game 2 times) but recently I picked it up for the Xbox when I got a new TV and couldn't find any good RPGs to play. Yeah I guess that's retarded but whatever, it's fun to play on a big tv sitting on my couch where the load times can be spent napping.

I'm not a Bethesda fan boy or anything like that though. I only really love 3 rpgs, Fallout 1 & 2 and then Sega's version of Shadowrun for the Genesis.

I've played alot in between but I like those because they are gritty and violent and full of guns etc.

I figure I shouldn't say any more on this, I'll just go back and read the rest of this thread. But I was only trying to get you guys excited about the possibility that something new and great could come from this studio. And that's not because I'm obsessed with their games or whatever the fuck you might think, it's because they're a big studio with money and resources and if anyone CAN do this properly it's someone like Bethesda.

And yet the ONE game you played (Morrowind), you hated, except when you could play it on a couch where you could deal with the extended loading times.

Makes sense.

 

[scruffpuff]

oh I like it alright on Xbox. for some reason it rubbed me the wrong way on my computer but I know plenty of other people who are obsessed with the PC version.

 

[scruffpuff]

oh and when I said SPECIAL will be changed...I really don't think that they're going to take out SPECIAL or anything like that because SPECIAL is funny and unique and overall gives the game a certain edge. I just assume that SPECIAL will be different, maybe you'll have to do something enough times to recieve that specific perk as opposed to getting a list of things.

Setting your stats and everything like that would probably remain similar or close to the original.

 

[Pope Viper]

oh I like it alright on Xbox. for some reason it rubbed me the wrong way on my computer but I know plenty of other people who are obsessed with the PC version.

That's well, and good.

But.


Morrowind does not equal Fallout.

I think that's been beaten to death, but just because they make a "good" game with their own IP, don't posit they can make a "good" game in a totally different IP.

 

[scruffpuff]

and I never said Morrowind equals fallout, it doesn't even come close. But we're all the fallout obsessed here and we have to accept the fact that what once was is now gone, the teams that created fallout 1 & 2 will never give us fallout 3. however, we have some folks who clearly feel passionatly about the series or else they wouldn't take a brand name that has appeal only to hardcore fans (because most people who didn't know about fallout played something like BOS and now think that the entire name itself blows) and they're going to try and give us a badass new game. I can only be optimistic because I waited for Tactics like everyone else and it was shit. and I knew BOS would be shit before it hit the shelves. But now here's some folks with serious chops who are going to try and resurrect this thing and personally I can't HELP but be optimistic.

 

[Pope Viper]

Well, I, like you hope for the best, but until the dev's come back with definite answers, my skepticism is going to run in greater proportions.

 

[EyeMaster7]

The fact that somehow the grace of god has come down and taken this game which we all love and handed it to a capable studio should, in itself, be enough to satisfy everyone on this board.

Really? The problem, pal is that this does not mean we are going to get a good game. When interplay produced FOT it was a good company. They had the potential to produce something like FO3... But for obscure commercial objectives it produced FAT.

The most important thing in the video game industry, as in any entertainment industry, is innovation. Without Bethesda our game would be either dead or quite possibly in the hands of some less qualified studio. Now they're going to take their shot at dusting it off, and overhauling the entire thing. I'm fucking excited!

I agree with you about innovation. 'course Bethesda is going to produce a game for PCs and console that should be targeted to a larger consumer market, but at least I expect that they will build a decent system which provides a good entertainment for "advanced" players. iamb not only talking about more side quests. But the player should have many options to achieve its main goal. And since we are talking about morrowind, something that bothered me a lot when I was playing Morrowind was the fact that you don't have any companion on your quest. You could get a npc in a place "A" and take him to another place "B" but that's all. In Fallout, Wasteland and the BG series like most good rpcs we had a team which was build according to the player's taste. In Fallout you couldn't choose your partner stats but you could choose who was going to stay in your team. I miss the old-school AD&D games like Pool of Radiance and Buck Rogers. A team :!: That would make a big difference between Morrowind and Fallout 3 ( I bet they are going to use the same engine anyway....).

You want pretty 3D graphics and FPS view then get Doom 3 Fallout 3 needs made the right way

Good point. In fact that is the third time this is said.

The fact that somehow the grace of god has come down and taken this game which we all love and handed it to a capable studio should, in itself, be enough to satisfy everyone on this board.

May I paraphrase that as "I want to be anally violated by a raging Deathclaw"

You shouldn't said that. roshambo is going to have funny ideas.

I can only be optimistic because I waited for Tactics like everyone else and it was shit. and I knew BOS would be shit before it hit the shelves. But now here's some folks with serious chops who are going to try and resurrect this thing and personally I can't HELP but be optimistic.

I must confess that I believe it's going to be a good game. But after reading the developers ideas about the game I'm sure they are not going to make an isometric game. It's going to be different from my expectations but still has potential. Too early to say something about that since it is in the pre-pre-development stage. (I think that is the fourth time someone said that.)

 

[4too]

"'Deja Vu All Over Again'"

"'Deja Vu All Over Again'"

scruffpuff:

... And seriously think about what they can do for the franchise.

Polygon counts are quickly becoming a thing of the past.
This means a vivid, 3d Wasteland.
and it'll be a BIG wasteland!

Consider, if you will, travelling on foot (much like in Morrowind) through the wasteland. Am I the only one who thinks that shit seems really fucking cool? The possibility for innovation in a world like that is limitless!

The most important thing in the video game industry, as in any entertainment industry, is innovation. Without Bethesda our game would be either dead or quite possibly in the hands of some less qualified studio. Now they're going to take their shot at dusting it off, and overhauling the entire thing. I'm fucking excited!

... cool ...

This is the clue that this opinion does NOT advocate ' innovation '. This is the buzz word of the limited in vision, and hides a latent terror that Bethesda might NOT make a Morrowind clone. This ' cool ' opinion wants to see FO skinned, stitched, and styled to fit Morrowind graphics and Morrowind game play. I doubt this is the dev plan of a publisher wanting to make game of greater appeal, and a profit.

Calling for that derivative, that SHALLOW a re-make, of Morrowind, does not qualify as ' innovation ' to any game consumer, not blinded by unnatural attachment, and unrequited passions for Morrowind.
Spare the web any dictionary hair splitting, scrufpufff actually wants another Morrwind MOD.

"'Deja Vu All Over Again'"; this is the same insular, hypocritical talk that was on the Interplay Forums. The BG fans that accused the FO fans of wanting to replay FO were lobbying for changes that would remake BG in FO clothes. These, few, and ""vocal"", BG fans did not want a NEW experience, they wanted to replay BG. Again and again and, again ...

The general stasis, if not general acceptance, won by JE et al; won by "challenging" the FO consensus that " Van Buren's " changes would
enhance and enrich the FO game play. This respect won by a former Interplay dev and the "Van Buren" posse, the 'et al' including Puuk and Briarenus, proves that the Fo fans were ready for INNOVATION.
The question NOW is if the fans of Morrowind are able to cope with the changes. Can the fans of FP Fantasy leave their fairy boots and fed ex expectations at the door when Bethesda takes on a project with 'adult'
questions and consequences in the player's choices of moral values.

A fan made Morrowind MOD dressed up in FO clothes might get positive attention. Imagine, another FO clone! Free coverage at NMA and DAC!
That's the best spin one can make of scrufpuff exuberance.

But...

A Bethesda made Morrowind Mod in FO drag might be as mediocre, and 'safe' as all the rest of their limited portfolio.
A Morrowind FO Mod would not be, pardon this cliche. "' thinking outside the box "'. A Morrowind fan stating that Bethesda is so limited in vision and execution in ""what they do best"", is arrogant and insulting the talent and business sense at Bethesda.

To me, the greatest claim to fame of the Bethesda is,

BETHESDA IS STILL IN BUSINESS!

Bethesda is still a "play-ahhh"!

Bethesda has bid and won the right to do FO-3.
FO-3'B' is Bethesda's high bid option, a reward for still being in the 'game'. A reward for taking a risk....

Bethesda has chosen to play a bigger game, and move beyond the expectations of mediocre game consumers.

Wait! Was not Bethesda known for playing it safe?
If what they 'do best' is playing it safe, then the market for their products will be hobbled to the Morrowind fan base.
Will staying with in the limited expectations of Morrowind fans
P-P-P-PAY for the production costs, much less, justify it's shelf space by being a P-P-P-Profitable consumer product?

Will catering exclusively to the FP Fantasy niche pay when competing in the World Wide entertainment market?.

I for one, only know Morrowind and TES from the 'buzz' of other gamers. It's a great big entertainment world out here, and our time is limited and our choices many. I only know Bethesda products, third hand. The media coverage NEVER got my attention, except the bug issue, proving bugs an industry standard, (soon to be emulated by all consoles, via the rush to publish). Bugs, hardly a selling point if First Person Fantasies Of Slashung And Gashing doesn't engage my enthusiam. Am I alone in this limited exposure to things Bethesda? Maybe not, maybe I'm in that great mass of "swing" gamers that are NOW seeing Bethesda because ...
they will do the next FO.


FO-3'B' is Bethesda's financial risk, and calculated opportunity to profit.
If what Bethesda does 'best' is making profitable games then they are holding true to the image of 'risk' they made by buying the option to do FO-3.

Bethesda may be moving out of the Morrowind box, by stepping up to a larger playing field B. will earn the attention of ALL RPG fans.



Whether B., builds on the 'buzz' that was Morrowind, and earns the dollars of ALL RPG fans depends on whether they can craft a title, FO-3'B' , to the larger RPG, and greater, gaming markets.


4too

 

[scruffpuff]

whoa you guys are acting crazy. I don't want a morrowind mod. I don't sit around figuring out how to manually install Fallout 2 on my computer because I love morrowind so much. I've only played morrowind a little bit and I've played fallout for...how many hours?

This is rediculous though. I was just trying to express some optimism, our game is getting made, hooray...whee...

sorry i said anything.

 

[4too]

Stand Tall

Stand Tall


scruffpuff:

... sorry i said anything.

No way.

If you didn't get "it"out of your system, then we wouldn't have.
""If you won't stop - then we won't stop"" for the gangsta's out there.

Although verb for verb you'll need a wheel barrow to haul away the words, and lead lined syntax.
It's a fair enough exchange.

Maybe you can sell the vowels to "Wheel Of Fourtune" - wholesale.



4too