Fallout 3 won't be Morrowind-with-guns

[Roshambo]

Where are the screenshots???

No screenshots?? What??? It's still in the pre-production stage? They are just talking about it???


So why all this fuss about it? Calm down people. Read what is written on their site before making stupid statements.

My opinion about fallout 3 is baboo's avatar.

Thank you for sharing, but by the time screenshots have come out, it's a little late to really make comments and critiques about the core design.

Also, in case you've missed it, there's something in my .sig you might be interested in.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I could give this to you from the programmers persepective? But that does not help hear. I was basing my conclusiong on the fact of when was the last successfull game, that had the isometric view of Fallout, a success either financially or by hardcore fans. The last I could think of was Diablo II / Baldur's Gate II back in 2000. Looking back at the games I have those are the last 2 I could think of. And since Fallout 3 would at the earliest be out in 2005, 5 years since an isometric game success would not bode well for another one.

Ever hear of a game called "The Sims"? Now guess what perspective it uses chucklehead. Also understand that it's the greatest selling computer game of all time.

Because I doubt on a project of this magnitude an engine that looks like the Fallout 1/2 engine woud be acceptable to the general public.

Why do people always seem to think that First-Person perspective is the pinnacle of gaming achievement?

Yes that was a simple example. Strength effects melee damage, I never said they were calculated the same or the probable 100's of what strength is used in either game. Its just a single example that would be in both. And by substats you would mean skills, like lockpicking? I have mentioned that in the few posts in the particular topic. Both have them and both, and I believe, are tied to an attribute.

To say Morrowind's system is anything like Fallout's SPECIAL is ignorance at best. It's plain stupidity at worse. You're not going to win friends here through pure ignorance. Fallout's base stats (the ones that abbreviate to SPECIAL) are limited to a pure 1 - 10 score. They don't change during the entire game. You don't up your strength whenever you level up. In fact the only way to increase strength or ANY of the other stats is via special perks (which you can only choose once) or special items (like Power Armour). Other than that, your base stats don't increase. Compare that with Morrowind where if you perservered long enough, EVERY STAT YOU HAD could reach the 100 limit.

Skills in Morrowind are also assigned differently. As has been said, tape a key down on your keyboard and go to sleep. Wake up the next morning and because you've been "using" the sneak skill all night, you've suddenly levelled up significantly not only in that skill but also the stats associated with it as well. Compare that to Fallout where you had to complete quests to gain XP. When you had gained enough XP you levelled up and could CHOOSE which skills you decided to increase. Morrowind doesn't have XP (Experience Points).

I guess it was unnessasary (and a cheap shot), it is just that too many are crtisizing me on such a trivial issue. And that is what I said in my original post about SPECIAL which has been construeed as I try to defend myself from all those who call my ignorant or say I know nothing.

You are ignorant and you do know nothing. Perhaps it's time you accepted that fact, the same way you've accepted Bethesda?

My reasons for continuing this are for none other then to get people to accept Bethesda for the time being

You're not going to get us to accept Bethesda for the time being if you keep spouting bullshit out of your every orifice. Failing to undersand the SPECIAL system and the difference between that and the Morrowind system and failing to understand "Isometric view" only prove your stupidity.

NEWS FLASH. Stupidity doesn't sell around here, kid.

I think it is in the BEST INTERESTS OF FALLOUT to give Bethesda a chance to show all of its cards. And I think it is up to us fans to give them a concise and reasonalbe expectation of what Fallout 3 should be.

They've had plenty of opportunity to say what they're thinking (count the interviews with every gaming site in existence done in the past 3 days). They haven't said anything yet. So in the mean-time, we're telling them what we think. They're more than welcome to respond.

I think in my first post I tried to create simularities between Morrowind and Fallout 1/2 to show Bethesda is capable of doing it.

How can you do that? Especially when, put quite simply in terms you'll undersand, Morrowind and Fallout have absolutely nothing in common.

Remember we are all on the same team, the team for a succesful Fallout 3. Fans who are AGAINST the developer will not help Fallout 3's cause, support the development and maybe, just maybe they will listen.

... and maybe, just maybe they won't. Going by the fact that none of them have registered in the forums over here (No Mutants Allowed - The oldest Fallout fan site on the internet), they're either reading and laughing or reading and taking notes. Somehow, I don't think it's the latter.

More importantly, if it is, if Bethesda really do listen to us and make the Fallout 3 we've always wanted, then guess what? All the angry Fallout fans get to have egg on their faces. Why do I think that won't be the case?

 

[KiTA]

Doesn't mean shit. I won't rest easy until they say something about SPECIAL/TB/isometric. No vague hinting either

You remind me of the Final Fantasy Fandom, when FF7 was announced.

That's not a good thing.

 

[Macaco]

Because I doubt on a project of this magnitude an engine that looks like the Fallout 1/2 engine woud be acceptable to the general public.

Why do people always seem to think that First-Person perspective is the pinnacle of gaming achievement?

I believe he wanted to say that from a technical standpoint, sprite based, 2D, low resolution and all. Nothing there criticizing it's perspective, and even less defending first person.

As has been said, tape a key down on your keyboard and go to sleep. Wake up the next morning and because you've been "using" the sneak skill all night, you've suddenly levelled up significantly not only in that skill but also the stats associated with it as well.

That was me, true story too.

I think it is in the BEST INTERESTS OF FALLOUT to give Bethesda a chance to show all of its cards. And I think it is up to us fans to give them a concise and reasonalbe expectation of what Fallout 3 should be.

Have you ever tought that maybe when they've shown all their cards, it will be too late to change any of them?

... and maybe, just maybe they won't. Going by the fact that none of them have registered in the forums over here (No Mutants Allowed - The oldest Fallout fan site on the internet), they're either reading and laughing or reading and taking notes. Somehow, I don't think it's the latter.

You know what would be great? if some of the Older guys here, The mods, rosh or brios, tried sending some mail real nice mail to the devs putting any bad blood in the past and inviting them to join in, promising no flaming/stupidity (and later ensuring it, maybe making some kind of restricted threads to avoid any trolling). There's a slim chance that would work, i'm sure some people here have been in contact with people at bethsoft already. Now wouldn't that be nice?

 

[Briosafreak]

The people at NMA are in contact with Bethesda. For every idea exchanged and patience that they asked the team , someone like Hayt makes a dumb thread or Pete talks about not doing a game like "Baldurs Gate", wich aren`t good moves...

Still the NMA team has lots of experience, i`m sure that they won`t cut the bridges and continue covering this matter thoroughly.

 

[jg71]

Morrowind had at least those three paths or combinations of the three to complete a task.

No, Morrowind didn't. Morrowind had fetch quests or it had kill quests. Your options in those quests were to:

A) Fetch
- OR -
B) Kill.

Let's be fair, now. Sometimes you could fetch and kill!!!

To be even more fair, there are several "escort quests" as well, e.g., deliver "drug mule" from port to city where drug dealer plans to cut her open.

 

[Roshambo]

You remind me of the Final Fantasy Fandom, when FF7 was announced.

That's not a good thing.

Actually, a better parallel would be the Final Fantasy Fandom when Final Fantasy 9 was announced, and the fans wanted to make sure it wasn't a shitfest like number 8.

 

[Role-Player]

Doesn't mean shit. I won't rest easy until they say something about SPECIAL/TB/isometric. No vague hinting either

You remind me of the Final Fantasy Fandom, when FF7 was announced.

That's not a good thing.

Except those otaku wannabes only went as far as breaking shop windows. We're planning to break balls.

 

[Role-Player]

Actually, a better parallel would be the Final Fantasy Fandom when Final Fantasy 9 was announced, and the fans wanted to make sure it wasn't a shitfest like number 8.

Don't diss out Final Fantasy 8

 

[Roshambo]

Don't diss out Final Fantasy 8

I found I couldn't, when I first played it. I fell asleep.

 

[Role-Player]

Ouch. That's actually happened to me with other games. Half-Life being one

 

[Briosafreak]

In Xen, i just put the game in God Mode and moved on, but before that it was a sleep killer for me, just another map, just another monster, oh it`s 4 a.m. already?

Good times, Half Life, Blade Runner and Fallout2, great nights i had back then.

 

[God is Dog backwards]

In Xen, i just put the game in God Mode and moved on, but before that it was a sleep killer for me, just another map, just another monster, oh it`s 4 a.m. already?

Good times, Half Life, Blade Runner and Fallout2, great nights i had back then.

I'm looking forward to Doom 3. The PC Gamer review said it's over 20 hours long, which, if true, will be great given how short recent FPS titles are. I've bought a new video card for it and HL2 (though talk about bad luck, I've had my money stolen TWICE online trying to buy a new ATi card... the first time it was irretrivable, the second time I've got Paypal protection and have filed a fraud request).

 

[hussar]

Also, in case you've missed it, there's something in my .sig you might be interested in.

P. Hines - "We're not going to go away from what it is that we do best. We're not going to suddenly do a top-down isometric Baldur's Gate-style game (sic!), because that's not what we do well."
.........................................................................................

i don't think pete hines has influence over game design as he is a pr guy. i think that this statement was over generalized on his part and should not be taken as something set in stone. i'm not implying that there is not a posibility that fo3 will be first person or over the shoulder but simply that what little has been said now is not all that significant.

another thing worth mentioning is that bethesda's pr stuff is not known for saying much and revealing details about their projects. i have learned this the hard way (sort of) from tes3 and its expansions. so it will be interesting how things will play out since the need for some sort of communication is defenitely there.

however that should not be a reason to backlash. recently feargus replied on the codex saying something along the lines of negative backlash being unecessary. that if we the fallout fans communicate with bethesda without insulting them, and saying that it better not be like mw, then our voices will have a greater chance of getting through. he aslo mentioned that he spoke on several ocasions to one of their designers (ken - lead designer of tes & comparable to who tim cain is to fallout) having a very positive impression of him and his ideas (though not fallout related i believe). regardles from this one can conclude that maybe fallout fans should "expand their horizons" a little.

of course the best case would probably be if troika developed fallout. however since that is not happening we've gotta work with the cards we've been delt. no bethesda shouldn't be looked upon as savior but simple as a good company. they really seem to care about single player rpgs and although i was a bit surprised when they got fallout (since what they did before was different) but that does not mean that they aren't able to step up to the plate. all the comparing mw to fallout doesn't make much sense since as one of beth. devs. unofficially but rightuflly pointed out (many took it as a flame) that bethesda damn well knows enough about fallout not to stupidly treat it like it's part of tes - this sort of negates what p.hines was saying in the quote above beth. knows very well what they got themselves into, deep shit-jk , they have a big task in front of them. there may be some disappointments along the way and a few compromises on both parts but at the end of the tunnel a worty follow up to the two great, great rpg's can be seen

i realize that fallout fans (the psycho ones that still stuck around ) have been fucked over numerous times, way too many to mention but this time looks to be different

keep your heads up...

 

[dontkillme]

Also, in case you've missed it, there's something in my .sig you might be interested in.

P. Hines - "We're not going to go away from what it is that we do best. We're not going to suddenly do a top-down isometric Baldur's Gate-style game (sic!), because that's not what we do well."
.........................................................................................

i don't think pete hines has influence over game design as he is a pr guy. i think that this statement was over generalized on his part and should not be taken as something set in stone. i'm not implying that there is not a posibility that fo3 will be first person or over the shoulder but simply that what little has been said now is not all that significant.

another thing worth mentioning is that bethesda's pr stuff is not known for saying much and revealing details about their projects. i have learned this the hard way (sort of) from tes3 and its expansions. so it will be interesting how things will play out since the need for some sort of communication is defenitely there.

however that should not be a reason to backlash. recently feargus replied on the codex saying something along the lines of negative backlash being unecessary. that if we the fallout fans communicate with bethesda without insulting them, and saying that it better not be like mw, then our voices will have a greater chance of getting through. he aslo mentioned that he spoke on several ocasions to one of their designers (ken - lead designer of tes & comparable to who tim cain is to fallout) having a very positive impression of him and his ideas (though not fallout related i believe). regardles from this one can conclude that maybe fallout fans should "expand their horizons" a little.

of course the best case would probably be if troika developed fallout. however since that is not happening we've gotta work with the cards we've been delt. no bethesda shouldn't be looked upon as savior but simple as a good company. they really seem to care about single player rpgs and although i was a bit surprised when they got fallout (since what they did before was different) but that does not mean that they aren't able to step up to the plate. all the comparing mw to fallout doesn't make much sense since as one of beth. devs. unofficially but rightuflly pointed out (many took it as a flame) that bethesda damn well knows enough about fallout not to stupidly treat it like it's part of tes - this sort of negates what p.hines was saying in the quote above beth. knows very well what they got themselves into, deep shit-jk , they have a big task in front of them. there may be some disappointments along the way and a few compromises on both parts but at the end of the tunnel a worty follow up to the two great, great rpg's can be seen

i realize that fallout fans (the psycho ones that still stuck around ) have been fucked over numerous times, way too many to mention but this time looks to be different

keep your heads up...

Indeed.

I'd also like to add that since alot of you are taking the PR's comment to heart about the isometric and such, you should also then take the actual developer's comment to heart where right after the interview was being reacted to, he came out on the beth forums and said "We are only talking right now. At this point it's 100% speculation. We haven't decided anything. Have patience. More info will come, but don't excpect it within weeks" or something very similar.

Edit: Here is Feargus Urquhart's post on the RPG Codex. I hope it's not a problem to post it here since it sounds like there has been some trouble with quoting here recently.

"I've always liked the phrase "Screaming at the wind." although some of you are turing the screaming into pissing - and for most of us that's not a lot of fun when it gets blown back in your face.

In other words - what you guys are saying is not helping your case. I'm sure Bethesda will listen to some of what you guys say if the words "No Talent Ass Clowns" or "it better be better than MW" are not included in every sentance.

I've talked with one of their designers, Ken, a number of times and he's certainly a bright guy.

Mabye you won't like what they make Fallout into. However, if whatever game they make is successful there is probably a greater chance that the game you down want to be made, will eventually be made.
_________________
Feargus Urquhart
CEO
Obsidian Entertainment, Inc."

 

[Roshambo]

You know it's funny that people treat Feargus' word as gold after the "SLAM DUNK!" that turned out how we predicted, another game that turned out to be crap and the fans had to do a significant part of development to get the game to even barely resemble the Infinity Engine, and he's been dishonest to us with TORN as well. He didn't like the replies to his craptacular spin and the other things he's mentally masturbated in regards to Fallout.

So, in lieu of that, some of us are treating anything he says like the same self-congratulatory hype that is common to BioWare.

In addition, you don't need to quote an entire post if you're just going to reply with one word to it. Any more of this half-ass chastizing without bothering to read what has been posted about this subject was warned against, more than once. We've already explained what we're trying to do, and aside from a few newbie trolls blowing it out of proportion and coming here because "Fallout fans are mean!", we're doing fairly well. In fact, it's funny to assume that a lot of developers would feel unkindly to this, as they are used to people bitching about other things (including the afflictions, which they have gotten flamed for lacking, among many other criticisms for Morrowind that they are sure to have read. Therefore, I think it's pretty silly to believe that they are going to suddenly get their feelings hurt or be foolish enough to alienate those who follow the series this closely when that doesn't help them at all. It's an insult to them that you're treating them like some kind of person who can't handle their own responsibilities.

Instead it was the newbie developer "HayT" that got his panties in a twist. Apparently someone grew up idolizing game developers into primadonnas a bit too much.

So what do you think I should do since you've done just what I've already warned against, and what could have been a moot point once you have read other topics? I'm supposed to feel kindly that you're posting on my forum but you're not going to be courteous enough to bother reading the threads (not many) on the topic before you decided to ante up your own Contribution because you were a little more than naive about the whole situation.

Here's a news flash for some of the naive nooblets:

I will not entertain another half-ass attempt at trolling, rebuking, or any such garbage like that. It's already been discussed and it appears that some people aren't wholly on the same page. Yes, it has been a PR nightmare, but most of the hardcore fans also explain their stances. It's funny that the apologists post empty "It would work well in FP!" without any clue what is going on, yet those who are skeptical are the villains yet they post their reasoning at length.

Let me point out how this starts, kids. It starts because a few trolls that frequent the SA forums, formerly from the Fallout forums of various sites, and other forums, got pissed because we wouldn't entertain their bullshit or banned them from here a while back when we didn't like their crackheaded Fallout FPS or Fallout MMORPG idea that they thought was brilliant but they had no idea how game mechanics worked.

They then go onto the Bethesda forums and post some of the most virulent bullshit possible with any fool ready to believe it is an actual Fallout fan*, and not someone who is instead causing problems for their amusement. You know, like many of the SA forumites. It was done back when FOS was announced and under development, with the same reaction to questionable points. The questionable point was the PR guy basically saying that they had no wish to continue with an important part of the Fallout style because that isn't what they do.

The fans responded to that piece of PR, the interviews, etc. in the way anyone would. Hey, have you heard the news from Derek Smart, lately, and how he wishes to have the Freespace license to do with whatever he wants, and the fans be damned? HayT has a good buddy, it seems.

PR is much more than hype spinning to the media, kids. Being a developer doesn't mean everything. Grow some balls and stop being cattle consumers; inform yourselves. You make the forum trolls have more fun, because now you're chastizing us for what some of them have started.

Now don't you just feel like a manipulated idiot now? I thought you might. Next time, I would suggest that you look into the background information first.

* - Or they may pose as a Bethesda fan and post insults directed here to lure more naive people into flaming back. It's typical two-forum inciting tactics that aren't new to anyone who has been around for long.

 

[dontkillme]

You know it's funny that people treat Feargus' word as gold after the "SLAM DUNK!" that turned out how we predicted, another game that turned out to be crap and the fans had to do a significant part of development to get the game to even barely resemble the Infinity Engine, and he's been dishonest to us with TORN as well. He didn't like the replies to his craptacular spin and the other things he's mentally masturbated in regards to Fallout.

I don't treat his word like gold. I do appreciate his input as someone who actually has experience in the industry. And someone who must understand how it sucks to get shit similar to the shitfest of the past week.

So, in lieu of that, some of us are treating anything he says like the same self-congratulatory hype that is common to BioWare.

Great. I don't see him making some advertisement or anything, just a simple logical comment from experience.

In addition, you don't need to quote an entire post if you're just going to reply with one word to it. Any more of this half-ass chastizing without bothering to read what has been posted about this subject was warned against, more than once. We've already explained what we're trying to do, and aside from a few newbie trolls blowing it out of proportion and coming here because "Fallout fans are mean!"

I didn't post just one word. And neither mine nor the poster above me were "half-assed chastizing". I don't see where you got that from. So, fallout fans aren't allowed to come to NMA and share their opinion on the matter? We were hardly trolling. And honestly, if anyone is blowing things out of proportion, it would be you.

So what do you think I should do since you've done just that?

Anything you want.

Here's a news flash for some of the naive nooblets:

I will not entertain another half-ass attempt at trolling, rebuking, or any such garbage like that. It's already been discussed and it appears that some people aren't wholly on the same page. Yes, it has been a PR nightmare, but most of the hardcore fans also explain their stances. It's funny that the apologists post empty "It would work well in FP!" without any clue what is going on, yet those who are skeptical are the villains yet they post their reasoning at length.

Naive nooblets huh? I've been following this site since *gasp* before tactics. And usually read every post on every newsbit when I have the time. But I guess you just call fans who register to voice their opinion which is different from your's: "naive nooblets".

Again, I and the poster above me were NOT trolling, rebuking, or really posting garbage. It's already been discussed, but usually by hostile people (hostile as in the ones who register with one post and call you meanies or whatever they say) and their opinions are just discarded, in the eyes and out the whatever. But yes, lets be an ass to nice people shall we?

Let me point out how this starts, kids. It starts because a few trolls that frequent the SA forums got pissed because we wouldn't entertain their bullshit or banned them from here a while back when we didn't like their crackheaded Fallout FPS idea.

They then go onto the Bethesda forums and post some of the most virulent bullshit possible with any fool ready to believe it is an actual Fallout fan and not someone who is instead causing problems for their amusement. You know, like many of the SA forumites. It was done back when FOS was announced and under development, with the same reaction to questionable points. The questionable point was the PR guy basically saying that they had no wish to continue with an important part of the Fallout style because that isn't what they do.

The fans responded to that piece of PR, the interviews, etc. in the way anyone would. Hey, have you heard the news from Derek Smart, lately, and how he wishes to have the Freespace license to do with whatever he wants, and the fans be damned? HayT has a good buddy, it seems.

We didn't post about SA. And we know what has happened (at least I do). It's not about all that. It's just about the shit of these fansites towards beth. And then the humorous facade of "it's all them them them them, we didn't do anything wrong, it's them."

It's funny, you mention this PR's comment about non-isometric, but you never mention positive things like an actual developer coming out right after that and saying "everything is 100% speculation as of now, we're just talking". I mean, wouldn't an actual developer who will work on the game know more about what's going on than an obviously naive (to the fallout fanbase, and maybe among other things) PR lackey? But again, yes, it's "them them them". Let's just mention the bad things.

PR is much more than hype spinning to the media, kids. Being a developer doesn't mean everything. Grow some balls and stop being cattle consumers; inform yourselves. You make the forum trolls even more laughable, because now you're chastizing us for what some of them have started.

Being a developer means you mold and shape the game you're working on, and since this whole site is based on fallout (you know, the series that is being worked on right now that we're talking about?), it means quite a bit. And his say on the matter is much more valid in my opinion than a lowly PR man.

How about you grow your own balls a little bit and stop posting pages and pages of irrelavant retorts, and give nothing but shit to people who don't deserve it. Maybe educate yourself and look at both sides of the situation, and wait until you have more facts and concrete information before you spout rediculous things out of your rabid little mouth (fingers). But I guess growing balls in your eyes is acting tough and smart on the internet, and writing mounds of blathered and wandering text trying to look big and informed.

And there you go accusing me of chastizing you again. You know, now that I think of it, the other posters who speak their mind don't seem like half as much as a troll as you are. Ahh, and here we go again... "them them them, they started it".

Now don't you just feel like a manipulated idiot now?

Not really. I would say my opinion of you has dropped some, but it's already as low as it can get. I think it was David Gaider who said it best, that your posts (or your internet persona) are like a cute little barking dog, you just want to pet the cute sucker but you know it will bite your hand because the little thing is rabid.

I thought you might.

Heh, I suppose you would.

Next time, I would suggest that you look into the background information first.

Next time, I would suggest that you pull your head out of your ass, at least a tad.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

^I'm sorry, does this guy above me here have a point?

* - Or they may pose as a Bethesda fan and post insults directed here to lure more naive people into flaming back. It's typical two-forum inciting tactics that aren't new to anyone who has been around for long.

There's more than just that SA business going on Rosh.

I'm in the process of composing the most trolling post I can while still maintaining a facade of legitamacy. Does anyone have any particular issues they'd like me to ream NMA for? I'll post drafts here.

 

[Roshambo]

^I'm sorry, does this guy above me here have a point?

No, just attention trolling as usual. They got the usual for that.

There's more than just that SA business going on Rosh

I know, but that would be validating the pathetic troll attempts.

Well, at least I warned them. And, if they had indeed been around for that long instead of lying about it, they would know that their bullshit wouldn't be accepted. The moron had to take their troll that much further.

It's funny, you mention this PR's comment about non-isometric, but you never mention positive things like an actual developer coming out right after that and saying "everything is 100% speculation as of now, we're just talking". I mean, wouldn't an actual developer who will work on the game know more about what's going on than an obviously naive (to the fallout fanbase, and maybe among other things) PR lackey? But again, yes, it's "them them them". Let's just mention the bad things.

Well, for someone who has claimed to have read this site for as long as you have, you certainly didn't see that the same exact thing happened with both FOT and FOS.

Liar. Goodbye.

 

[Bradylama]

There's more than just that SA business going on Rosh.

[/quote]

"Talk about how Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel has better character designs."

At least they're being funny about it.