Fallout 4 Launch Trailer

Walpknut said:
Wouldn't the city of the Institute be more important then? It was a war that destroyd evrything. Why is it absurd when it is convenient to you?
They could always just stop setting everything in prewar ruins, come up with better explanation for why the cities are still standing up and in general stop filling everything with enemy infested ruins. The only reason why this "complicate things" is because Bethesda is a one trick pony, they just want to make games about looting ruins over and over, they can't even be bothered to put any actual settlements in their Fallout games.

It was a 2 hours of continuous bombing, what is more absurd is that they would only shoot 1 nuke at Boston, specially when it caused the collapse of everything apparently.
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Did you not read what I said? You literally repeated what I was saying.
 
You said that 77 nukes is absurd. Because. You are defending the "one nuke" story by trying to either just make up excuses "they were just largee! but had small blas radius, or they were targeted by less". You should realize that by this point you are just making excuses and trying to diminish what is already canon and lore just to defend Bethesda's lazy approach to the Fallout universe.
 
Walpknut said:
You said that 77 nukes is absurd. Because. You are defending the "one nuke" story by trying to either just make up excuses "they were just largee! but had small blas radius, or they were targeted by less". You should realize that by this point you are just making excuses and trying to diminish what is already canon and lore just to defend Bethesda's lazy approach to the Fallout universe.
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Seriously, shut up and read. I said Obsidian made it so every target of equal importance needs to have an equal amount thrown at it or have some reason it doesn't.

Furthermore, the size of the nukes is frequently debated in Fallout. I'm trying to think of a reason they would have for why seemingly so few targeted Boston or landed. Christ it's like talking to a wall.
 
Yeah, Obsidian made it logical. Bethesda has problems when it's logical because they have a very lazy approach to making new settings for the game. Since the first game it was stablished that there were lots of nukes shot, it is always described as a storm or a rain of nuclear fire. It was nothing New, the original games never insisted on having completely intact ruins of large prewar cities. It's a problm that Bethesda created themselves.
 
Walpknut said:
Yeah, Obsidian made it logical. Bethesda has problems when it's logical because they have a very lazy approach to making new settings for the game. Since the first game it was stablished that there were lots of nukes shot, it is always described as a storm or a rain of nuclear fire. It was nothing New, the original games never insisted on having completely intact ruins of large prewar cities. It's a problm that Bethesda created themselves.
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Yet another time you can't admit you were wrong, shocker.

It's a problem they just have to make up a reason for like lasers, or missiles. I'll be let down if they have no reason, hence why I said what I did and you failed to read it.
 
How am I wrong? The original games were never set in intact prewar cities. From the beginning it was stated that everything was burnt down to cinders. DC had no explanation to be as intact as it was when San Francisco and California were decimated. The original games did fine with just stablishing post war socierties that had done work and rebuilt.

It doesn't always have to be defense systems, they just need to be more willing to let go of ruins. New Vegas had the defense system and it still put in post war settlements built by the people themselves that weren't nonsensical things like living in a ballpark despite having so many intact building around.
 
Walpknut said:
How am I wrong? The original games were never set in intact prewar cities. From the beginning it was stated that everything was burnt down to cinders. DC had no explanation to be as intact as it was when San Francisco and California were decimated. The original games did fine with just stablishing post war socierties that had done work and rebuilt.

It doesn't always have to be defense systems, they just need to be more willing to let go of ruins. New Vegas had the defense system and it still put in post war settlements built by the people themselves that weren't nonsensical things like living in a ballpark despite having so many intact building around.
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English isn't your first language but come on, reading comprehension. You accused me of saying something I didn't and then repeated what I actually said. THAT'S what you're wrong about.

How is living inside the walls of a very secure ballpark (Fenway) less logical than living in buildings that can be easily entered?
 
"Also, the 77 nukes at Vegas thing was absurd writing on Obsidian's part to me. I'm sure they wanted to say that there were so many that China could spare that many on a city that wasn't strategically important per se. It just makes every future story difficult because why wouldn't they have thrown 200 at Boston? They really should've gone with 10-20 at most honestly unless we're going with they are all relatively small blast radius wise."

That's what you said. You say it will make stories difficult, but the only real issue there is that Bethesda just keeps repeating themselves with the Ruins. The originals had no issue with the Nukes actually decimating everything. They even managed to have big hub locations built by Post war communities. Basically you are asking for stablished lore to ADAPT to Bethesda's approach and not the other way around. The weight of their location making no sense within the setting is on them, not on the stablished lore.

How is living inside a Park dumb? Why even go there? If only one Nuke hit what reasons would they exactly have to abandon their homes and all hole up in a ballpark? You are automatically reducing the living space of your people by setting up in an enclosed space like that, despite Diamond city being better as a hub than Megaton they still don't have any farms nor do they actually produce anything. Someone even makes a living out of seeling Baseball memorabilia somehow... It's again Bethesda going for the "coolness fator" rather than it actually making any sense.
 
Walpknut said:
"Also, the 77 nukes at Vegas thing was absurd writing on Obsidian's part to me. I'm sure they wanted to say that there were so many that China could spare that many on a city that wasn't strategically important per se. It just makes every future story difficult because why wouldn't they have thrown 200 at Boston? They really should've gone with 10-20 at most honestly unless we're going with they are all relatively small blast radius wise."

That's what you said. You say it will make stories difficult, but the only real issue there is that Bethesda just keeps repeating themselves with the Ruins. The originals had no issue with the Nukes actually decimating everything. They even managed to have big hub locations built by Post war communities. Basically you are asking for stablished lore to ADAPT to Bethesda's approach and not the other way around. The weight of their location making no sense within the setting is on them, not on the stablished lore.

How is living inside a Park dumb? Why even go there? If only one Nuke hit what reasons would they exactly have to abandon their homes and all hole up in a ballpark? You are automatically reducing the living space of your people by setting up in an enclosed space like that, despite Diamond city being better as a hub than Megaton they still don't have any farms nor do they actually produce anything. Someone even makes a living out of seeling Baseball memorabilia somehow... It's again Bethesda going for the "coolness fator" rather than it actually making any sense.
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You're dense as hell, you have serious issues understanding what you read. I didn't ask for established lore to adapt to Bethesda I said Bethesda now has to adapt to THAT lore along with anyone else that makes a Fallout game. Clearly. Then I suggested they should've gone for a lower number because it seems as if they arbitrarily chose a high number to make House's feat impressive and that I feel less nukes are more believable overall. You were wrong, just admit it, but you never will. We currently don't know for sure how many overall landed near Boston or why besides Howard's one comment.

Again if you don't understand why displaced people in search of shelter or looking for a community for protection would choose a place that is basically fortified like a fort, I can't help you. You're trying so hard to make it not make sense when it makes perfect sense.

As for wanting it in pre war cities, it makes for a fun place to explore. You also seem to think lore is immutable despite it not being even well before Bethesda got the franchise. Not to mention that they can override anything Obsidian did that they want if that is what they wanted to do.
 
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You called the stablished lore Absurd. "They really should've gone with 10-20 at most honestly unless we're going with they are all relatively small blast radius wise." "They should've" Why would less nukes make it more beleivable when the point was that it was complete global devastation that even changed the weather? I'll say making them fewer would just diminish the fact that it was a literal end of the world.

You have yet to give a reason why they would need to abandon their intact homes when only 1 nuke hit apparently. They also have no farms or any way to produce anything at all. And as I said, there is a guy whose entire shtick is having a Baseball memorabilia store, he even dresses in baseball uniforms and everything. Doesn't matter how "fortified" it is, if you can't produce food, your community is just doomed, simple as that.
 
Walpknut said:
You called the stablished lore Absurd. "They really should've gone with 10-20 at most honestly unless we're going with they are all relatively small blast radius wise." "They should've" Why would less nukes make it more beleivable when the point was that it was complete global devastation that even changed the weather? I'll say making them fewer would just diminish the fact that it was a literal end of the world.

You have yet to give a reason why they would need to abandon their intact homes when only 1 nuke hit apparently. They also have no farms or any way to produce anything at all. And as I said, there is a guy whose entire shtick is having a Baseball memorabilia store, he even dresses in baseball uniforms and everything. Doesn't matter how "fortified" it is, if you can't produce food, your community is just doomed, simple as that.
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Because 10 nukes is still a fuck ton of nukes that should wipe out an area and 77 is insane overkill? If they fired 77 at Vegas alone that means they must have had thousands to strike everywhere they presumably did through Mexico, the US and maybe even Canada. I personally would like less because it makes it more believable to me, because China could've even nuked a dozen other countries as well.

You're moving the goal posts on Diamond City. How do you know they aren't growing food there or nearby exactly?
 
It has already being stablished that Mexico City is mostly destroyed (altho not as much as Bakerfield aka the BONEYARD), so the rest was probably destroyed too, including Canada. It wasn't just localized to the US, it was GLOBAL as big wars tend to be. As the intro of the first game states. The intor of Fallout 2 even outright states "Continents were swallowed in flames and fell beneath the boiling oceans".

Moving goalsposts? I never changed my line of questions. From the beginning I asked why would people hole up in a ballpark if they had so many intact buildings around. Also, how do I know? uhmmm forgot that there is a Leak Stream watching thread in this very subforum?
 
Walpknut said:
It has already being stablished that Mexico City is mostly destroyed (altho not as much as Bakerfield aka the BONEYARD), so the rest was probably destroyed too, including Canada. It wasn't just localized to the US, it was GLOBAL as big wars tend to be. As the intro of the first game states. The intor of Fallout 2 even outright states "Continents were swallowed in flames and fell beneath the boiling oceans".

Moving goalsposts? I never changed my line of questions. From the beginning I asked why would people hole up in a ballpark if they had so many intact buildings around. Also, how do I know? uhmmm forgot that there is a Leak Stream watching thread in this very subforum?
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I vastly prefer a world where the old and new interact rather than nothing from the old and only from the new. So did Bethesda and Obsidian and I'm glad they did.

You move the goal posts by changing your argument. How exactly would people grow food in communities in random unconnected apartment buildings? First it was it doesn't make sense to leave them period then because of farming.
 
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It may have hit well off the coast and caused the damage from there as well as sunk a bunch of the land.

Also, the 77 nukes at Vegas thing was absurd writing on Obsidian's part to me. I'm sure they wanted to say that there were so many that China could spare that many on a city that wasn't strategically important per se. It just makes every future story difficult because why wouldn't they have thrown 200 at Boston? They really should've gone with 10-20 at most honestly unless we're going with they are all relatively small blast radius wise.[/QUOTE]

And created a crater miles inland?

Or Bethesda could have used a realistic number of nukes against Boston in a supposedly world-destroying war?
 
Battlecross said:
Walpknut said:
It has already being stablished that Mexico City is mostly destroyed (altho not as much as Bakerfield aka the BONEYARD), so the rest was probably destroyed too, including Canada. It wasn't just localized to the US, it was GLOBAL as big wars tend to be. As the intro of the first game states. The intor of Fallout 2 even outright states "Continents were swallowed in flames and fell beneath the boiling oceans".

Moving goalsposts? I never changed my line of questions. From the beginning I asked why would people hole up in a ballpark if they had so many intact buildings around. Also, how do I know? uhmmm forgot that there is a Leak Stream watching thread in this very subforum?
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I vastly prefer a world where the old and new interact rather than nothing from the old and only from the new. So did Bethesda and Obsidian and I'm glad they did.

You move the goal posts by changing your argument. How exactly would people grow food in communities in random unconnected apartment buildings? First it was it doesn't make sense to leave them period then because of farming.
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There's other ways to have the old and new interact aside from massive fucking old world monoliths.
 
Battlecross said:
It may have hit well off the coast and caused the damage from there as well as sunk a bunch of the land.

Also, the 77 nukes at Vegas thing was absurd writing on Obsidian's part to me. I'm sure they wanted to say that there were so many that China could spare that many on a city that wasn't strategically important per se. It just makes every future story difficult because why wouldn't they have thrown 200 at Boston? They really should've gone with 10-20 at most honestly unless we're going with they are all relatively small blast radius wise.
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And created a crater miles inland?

Or Bethesda could have used a realistic number of nukes against Boston in a supposedly world-destroying war?[/QUOTE]

Where is the crater and what is "realistic" is apparently an obscenely high number which they could just totally ignore.[/QUOTE]

The crater in the bottom left corner of the map you were responding to?

Yes, it is. Again, ""Continents were swallowed in flames and fell beneath the boiling oceans". " This wasn't a minor strategic exchange. This was a centruy of hostility and stockpiling coming to fruition. One to a dozen nukes aren't going to be used against major population centers. SCORES of nukes are. If every city were hit with a dozen nukes, it wouldn't be that "great" a war, and Orange County wouldn't be reduced to a crater lake.
 
Battlecross said:
You move the goal posts by changing your argument. How exactly would people grow food in communities in random unconnected apartment buildings? First it was it doesn't make sense to leave them period then because of farming.
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THey have parks where grass can grow, they have no limit to how much space they can dedicate to farming, make some greenhouses in terrazas, use the patios and backyards of people to grow more food. There is lots that can be done to make a community work when you aren't holed up in a stadium. Why would they leave their comfortable and secure houses, open spaces to grow food and expand? Hell, that's basically what you do in Settlement building mode, and you are just one dude, they are hunders if not thousands of people and a single dude can do more with the ruins than them?
The bombs didn't do that much to the city and there is lots of locations with fuel and guns just stored in drawers. It looks like people didn't even attempt to get anything from the abandoned buildings and just decided to hole themselves up in a ballpark for no reason.
 
Walpknut said:
Battlecross said:
You move the goal posts by changing your argument. How exactly would people grow food in communities in random unconnected apartment buildings? First it was it doesn't make sense to leave them period then because of farming.
Click to expand...

THey have parks where grass can grow, they have no limit to how much space they can dedicate to farming, make some greenhouses in terrazas, use the patios and backyards of people to grow more food. There is lots that can be done to make a community work when you aren't holed up in a stadium. Why would they leave their comfortable and secure houses, open spaces to grow food and expand? Hell, that's basically what you do in Settlement building mode, and you are just one dude, they are hunders if not thousands of people and a single dude can do more with the ruins than them?
The bombs didn't do that much to the city and there is lots of locations with fuel and guns just stored in drawers. It looks like people didn't even attempt to get anything from the abandoned buildings and just decided to hole themselves up in a ballpark for no reason.
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People group together in a community for protection and resources. Easy.

What crater? I'm on a phone and in that map I don't see one.
 
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