Fallout 4 VS Skyrim

Oblivion really is the best of their games at making you just an average joe thrust into a situation. Yea the Emperor saw your face in a dream but that doesn't tell us a single thing about your character or what exactly him seeing you in his dream meant. It could be because you're the future savior of Cyrodiil or because you're some shmuck he meets right before his death.
 
Vergil said:
Oblivion really is the best of their games at making you just an average joe thrust into a situation. Yea the Emperor saw your face in a dream but that doesn't tell us a single thing about your character or what exactly him seeing you in his dream meant. It could be because you're the future savior of Cyrodiil or because you're some shmuck he meets right before his death.
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Who then runs off with the crown jewels.
 
NotAcasul said:
We've seen Bethesda respond to the criticisms of Fallout 4 in the newest dlc. Could they learn from their past mistakes and create a Fallout on par to the originals?
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From what I can gather, what the DLCs have done is not enough to redeem the rest of the aspect of the main game; like, at all. I've already said in another thread that, for me, no game deserved to be called 'good', if the redeeming aspect lies in the DLCs. Far Harbor might've been a step-up from the main game, but like many have said it was too restricted by the previous design decision made for the main game. If I've to guess, a follow-up Fallout game by Obsidian/inXile would appear like Far Harbor, in terms of being restricted by Fallout 4 design decision.

For Bethesda to learn from their past mistakes create a Fallout on par to the originals (let alone on par with New Vegas), is to completely swap their core team with whatever team making Far Harbor, and give them complete creative freedom without being restricted by their marketing team demands (i.e stop forcing them to make design decision to cater to every kind of fanbase). Oh, and also completely drop every design decision they've made for Fallout 4. Learn from the 90s EA who completely dropped everything about Fountain of Dreams, so it was no longer an actual follow-up to the original Wasteland, and have no influences toward future games.

NotAcasul said:
Then what you said was a lie. Stop making lies.
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He's not lying, he's predicting and imagining what's happening in the production of Fallout 4. Just think about it, if there IS some people in the team who actually played the originals or maybe even New Vegas, they would've voiced their objection toward the design decision of making the dialogue more like Mass Effect. Of course, maybe the rest of the team and Todd didn't listen and so they had to go with it, but still!
 
Ragemage said:
Here's the big difference. In Fallout 2 you're only the Chosen One because you were able to get the jumpsuit from the temple.
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True.

Ragemage said:
And you're only the "chosen one" to your tribe. No one else knows who the fuck you are until AFTER you've saved the wastes from the Enclave.
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True.

Ragemage said:
Meanwhile in something like Skyrim, you're the chosen one the second you start the main quest and get that first dragon soul.
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True.

Ragemage said:
Suddenly every single person in the game knows you're the legendary Dragonborn.
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False. Knowledge of one being Dragonborn is limited to Guards, dragon death event and quest specific dialogue. Kill command a dragon and everyone in the shared group will run and say "You, You're Dragonborn." and things like that, even if you already captured the soul and it doesn't reproduce one. Guards are aware when you shout using the Misc dialogue function and a handful of NPCs during quests like BallGroove the greater. The world of Skyrim is very static to the events that unfold. In Oblivion Every NPC in all the 'cities' would have custom dialogue for closing the gate out of the city walls. You were recognized globally as the hero of Kvatch and the Grand Champion for the arena. The landscape would change slightly. In Morrowind every NPC is aware of your status at the end, the world changes noticeably. As the disposition system was removed from Skyrim your status only changes for people and factions you directly helped. There is no global awareness in Skyrim like the predecessors.
 
DirtyOldShoe said:
False. Knowledge of one being Dragonborn is limited to Guards, dragon death event and quest specific dialogue. Kill command a dragon and everyone in the shared group will run and say "You, You're Dragonborn." and things like that, even if you already captured the soul and it doesn't reproduce one. Guards are aware when you shout using the Misc dialogue function and a handful of NPCs during quests like BallGroove the greater. The world of Skyrim is very static to the events that unfold. In Oblivion Every NPC in all the 'cities' would have custom dialogue for closing the gate out of the city walls. You were recognized globally as the hero of Kvatch and the Grand Champion for the arena. The landscape would change slightly. In Morrowind every NPC is aware of your status at the end, the world changes noticeably. As the disposition system was removed from Skyrim your status only changes for people and factions you directly helped. There is no global awareness in Skyrim like the predecessors.
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Actually, number 1, there IS still a disposition system in Skyrim. It's just incredibly dumbed down. Every time you do a mission for someone you can raise or lower their disposition by 1 or 2 points. See here as a good example of where a quest raises or lowers disposition with 2 different people: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Taste_of_Death It's incredibly dumbed down compared to Morrowind or Oblivion but it is actually there.


Number 2, the word "everyone" was a hyperbole, I'm well aware that not everyone acknowledges the fact you're the hero. It isn't like Morrowind where after you defeat Dagoth Ur literally every NPC will say "Oh gods, you're the Nerevarine! I can't believe you're talking to me of all people, I'm so honored!" But you're still recognized as the Dragonborn every time you do something, such as shout, kill a dragon, and people will mention it a lot during quests. You're still seen as a hero at least part of the time, while in Fallout 2 no one recognizes you as a hero, and in fact you're met with discrimination in a lot of places because of your tribal status.. Same for Morrowind, before you're recognized as the Nerevarine you're met with a lot of discrimination because you're an outsider, a greenhorn. No one respects you until you do things for them.

Meanwhile in Skyrim, because you're the Dragonborn, a lot of people praise you for it for no reason, even if they don't know you. The point I'm trying to make here is that in Morrowind and Fallout 2 you start off as a literal nobody, and no one gives a guar shit about you or who you are. You have to earn their respect. Meanwhile in Skyrim you kill one dragon, which any random guard can do with a bow and arrow, and everyone will gather around and shout "OMG THE DRAGONBORN CAN I HAVE YOUR AUTOGRAPH?!"
 
To be fair the reason everyone goes nuts about you isn't because you managed to kill a dragon. It's because you managed to kill a dragon AND absorb it's soul. The Dragonborn prophecy is a very important and longstanding tradition in Nord culture so it's natural that everyone would be hyped to see a Hero from Legend in the flesh.
 
Vergil said:
To be fair the reason everyone goes nuts about you isn't because you managed to kill a dragon. It's because you managed to kill a dragon AND absorb it's soul. The Dragonborn prophecy is a very important and longstanding tradition in Nord culture so it's natural that everyone would be hyped to see a Hero from Legend in the flesh.
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Hype, hype never changes.
 
What annoys me about SKyrim is how everyone knows you're everything else as well as the Dragonborn. Theres no need for half of the town guard in all of the holds to recognize me as the Listener of the Dark Brotherhood.
 
Ragemage said:
Actually, number 1, there IS still a disposition system in Skyrim. It's just incredibly dumbed down. Every time you do a mission for someone you can raise or lower their disposition by 1 or 2 points. See here as a good example of where a quest raises or lowers disposition with 2 different people: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Taste_of_Death It's incredibly dumbed down compared to Morrowind or Oblivion but it is actually there.
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That is RelationshipRank and determines weather an NPC will let you take their things, marry them. In order for this rank system to work, the corresponding NPC needs to have a followup faction like PotentialMarraigeFaction, PotentialFollowerFaction. This tells the NPC that they can move forward. Unfortunately it isn't "dumb downed" and it isn't "disposition" like UESP states it is. UESP stopped being a reliable source when they started changing/deleting the lore to comply with ESO. I agree with you on every point, but have to correct you when you are wrong.

I have worked for years in the CK and know it well. You might have gotten the feeling that the world is bending to the position of the Dragonborn, but even your example shows how poorly conceptualized relationship ranks are used. Eola has no idea you are the Dragonborn. It is a simple condition of when player shouts, say this one line. The game isn't setup in a fashion where if you have completed meeting the greybeards than the trek, only Klimick knows and Ball Grooves and his posse, nor killing the World Eater will anyone know that, that is not a Greybeard or the Blades. Eola surly isn't aware nor are any of the Jarls.

Disposition Base: Not used.
Relationship

If anyone in Skyrim changed their relationship rank with the player after Alduin, I would agree with you, but sadly it does not. It literally has no effect on the people of Skyrim and they are not set up to care. Imagine if you killed Alduin and all Nords got bumped up to Friend Status as a minimum? They can't because the game would poop itself. Stealing would loose all purpose. If you start a fight, your Nord buddies will help you own the unsuspecting by-standard. It would be funny for a minute, but the game just wasn't set up that way.
 
Skyrim was fun, but it really is only the best for derping around. If you don't take the story, NPCs and setting serious. If you place buckets on the head of shop keepers, or if you do other retarded stuff. This is how you can get the most fun out of the game in my opinion. Killing whole towns seems to be a popular pastime for many youtubers making Skyrim videos ...
 
Well, others already covered what I'd have said re: chosen one trope, so I'll just say yup, that. Fallout 2 uses the trope but it handles it well, you're not simply the chosen one from birth because you're the player and therefore automatically assumed to be some godlike special snowflake ;p
 
Crni Vuk said:
Skyrim was fun, but it really is only the best for derping around. If you don't take the story, NPCs and setting serious. If you place buckets on the head of shop keepers, or if you do other retarded stuff. This is how you can get the most fun out of the game in my opinion. Killing whole towns seems to be a popular pastime for many youtubers making Skyrim videos ...
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Killing everyone is a popular pastime for youtubers.
 
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