Fallout community; not doing enough?

[Brother None]

This thread is ongoing on DaC.

VDweller points out the following (my highlights):

How do those conclusions differ from confirmed facts? Let's start with the basics: the game is neither turn-based nor isometric. That's pretty much a fact. If I'm not mistaken these two elements were kinda important to the Fallout community, but instead of doing whatever it is you guys do about such things, you (I don't mean you personally) prefer to pretend that nothing has been decided yet and that no official word has been given. See the post above mine for details - "Suffice it to say, unless it's in an official press release, I'm not going to believe a word of it." It's a great strategy that Bethesda is using against you even now.

Mind you, I'm not expecting you to do anything. You know my position. Fallout is dead, but hopefully Bethesda will make a decent PA game inspired by Fallout. It's just when I read stuff like "oh, yeah, there will be hell to pay, HELL TO PAY, BETHESDA!!!!"... I mean, if you guys are serious about doing something about it, what the fuck are you waiting for?

Why? So that everyone can dismiss them as lies and evil propaganda, stating that nothing short of the official word is good enough?

Once again, I told you that the game is neither turn-based nor isometric 6 months ago. What happened? Nothing. Rosh posted that bit about the story. What happened? Nothing. Well, technically, Rosh was ridiculed and laughed at, so I guess it's something. I can't wait to post more.

I told Rosh awhile ago that the Fallout community will get a Fallout game it deserves. I hope you guys are open-minded and are finally ready to embrace the next-generation (tm) game design.

He raises interesting issues. The situations are somewhat incomparable, but so far the big, bad, scary Fallout community has done nothing but sit on its big, bad, fat ass while Bethesda fends us off to plan their game, many factors of which we already know we'll hate, some we'll have to wait and see how they handle them.

So where are we? Where's the big bad?

Thoughts?

 

[Yoshi525]

Kill all who insult Islam.

Maybe we could like speak to like their reps' or sumthin', i'm sure they would happily cooperate!

 

[Per]

I don't really see the logic, on the face of it. The "Fallout community" is somehow responsible for masterminding Bethesda's game design, even when they explicitly shut us out, except apparently he doesn't share any of the blame because he doesn't care. I don't care either, but I'm still part of the Fallout community, so I'm guessing I'm one of the people whose behaviour is somehow causally related to Bethesda's marketing strategies and development. And then there are these Sekrets again that we should be in awe of even though they can't be openly shared (because we're not grateful enough or something)... we're supposed to assault Bethesda based on some guessing-game we are expected to play with our inside men, when they still prefer to drop smug hints instead of putting forward this awesome information?

 

[Sorrow]

Thoughts?

I think that one of the best things that can be done is a writing series of articles about what Fallout is, so that anyone who visits NMA can read them without reading forums learn what to expect from Fallout 3 .

 

[The Vault Dweller]

Thoughts?

I think that one of the best things that can be done is a writing series of articles about what Fallout is, so that anyone who visits NMA can read them without reading forums learn what to expect from Fallout 3 .

Thats...perfect. Great answer!

Honestly...VDweller is right emotionally. I've always wanted to just "make" F3 right and it wouldnt seem so hard with so many fervantly devoted fans, but that doesnt just "make" a game appear.

Honestly the closest thing we'll get to an appropriate sequal will be a good mod like Mutants Rising or Fan Made Fallout. Pray they finish and do it moderately well.

Its a dirty little secret of mine, but I wanted to join and help them...its a long story, but I couldnt after not being able to keep a promise to myself.

Guys I'd give one of my nuts to have the game made right...maybe even have it removed without anasthesia...

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

 

[VDweller]

The "Fallout community" is somehow responsible for masterminding Bethesda's game design, even when they explicitly shut us out...

I didn't think it was that easy to shut the Fallout community out. Apparently, I was mistaken.

... except apparently he doesn't share any of the blame because he doesn't care.

It's not about sharing the blame. You want to put some blame on me too? Be my guest. Feel better now?

And then there are these Sekrets again that we should be in awe of even though they can't be openly shared...

What secrets? That's the game is not turn-based or isometric? Or do you need the exact words with a signature and a notary stamp?

we're supposed to assault Bethesda based on some guessing-game...

You are right. I'm sure that the game will be a true sequel. Let's wait for the official word together.
.....

Thoughts?

I think that one of the best things that can be done is a writing series of articles about what Fallout is, so that anyone who visits NMA can read them without reading forums learn what to expect from Fallout 3 .

Thats...perfect. Great answer!

What a great idea! When you are done, maybe we can all get together and sing a song too.

 

[Per]

I didn't think it was that easy to shut the Fallout community out. Apparently, I was mistaken.

Oh no, we aren't all ninjas dropping down from skylights to force leaks from intimidated janitors? If you're such a 1337 info digger, feel free to explain how that influences their marketing and design processes. Who knows, you might convince me.

You want to put some blame on me too? Be my guest. Feel better now?

It's not about sharing the blame. You started talking about what people "deserve".

What secrets? That's the game is not turn-based or isometric?

That's the big unmentionable? The information that somehow had to be known and unknown at the same time? That we were supposed to recognize as gospel truth although it's indistinguishable in shape and form from 37% of all posts made in any Fallout 3 news thread?

Or do you need the exact words with a signature and a notary stamp?

People here might take it at face value (an honest, straightforward delivery helps). I think you can see that the invading fanboys aren't going to.

we're supposed to assault Bethesda based on some guessing-game...

You are right. I'm sure that the game will be a true sequel. Let's wait for the official word together.

I'm trying to see any relation between what I wrote and your reply, but there's nothing. If you have anything to say besides random cynical one-liners, I'm sure it would clear things up.

 

[VDweller]

Oh no, we aren't all ninjas dropping down from skylights to force leaks from intimidated janitors? If you're such a 1337 info digger...

I'm not. I simply talk to developers, just like I'm talking to you now. Look at all the interviews I did in 2006. It's that simple.

... feel free to explain how that influences their marketing and design processes.

No marketing guy would want to make a game that will be met with negativity and torn to fucking ribbons. By met with negativity, I mean the overall reaction, not some local bitching at DAC and NMA.

It's not about sharing the blame. You started talking about what people "deserve".

Sure, and I stand by my comments. Want to add me to that group? Fair enough.

That's the big unmentionable?

I have no idea of what you are referring to.

we're supposed to assault Bethesda based on some guessing-game...

You are right. I'm sure that the game will be a true sequel. Let's wait for the official word together.

I'm trying to see any relation between what I wrote and your reply, but there's nothing. If you have anything to say besides random cynical one-liners, I'm sure it would clear things up.

Let's try that again then. You either believe that the game will be a proper sequel or you don't. If you don't, feel free to start the assault at any time.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

I care! But I don't see there's anything that can be done. The devs are going to make the game they want to play (as long as it fits in with the marketing guys projections).

If they are going to make something that's radically different to the original then you've got fat chance of getting them to do a u-turn. Even if you got all the people who've registered here and at DaC or Shamo etc to do a campaign it would be a drop in the bucket compared to their oblivion sales. I don't see how that's got anything to do with the community getting the game we deserve, as they most likely already had an idea of what game they were going to make when they bought the rights.

 

[RPG of the year!!]

I care! But I don't see there's anything that can be done. The devs are going to make the game they want to play (as long as it fits in with the marketing guys projections).

While we're indeed powerless to stop Fallout 3 from being anything more than shovelware, we do have the same capacity to fight back that we did last time(the parallels to FO:BoS are terrifying).

We can poison its chances for commercial success by telling the truth*, relentlessly, at the top of our lungs. Talk about playing dirty.


*The truth that TB combat, isometric viewpoint, choice and consequence, art style, and storyline have all been greeted with a big emphatic "NO SIR!" by Bethesda. If we have to start by shouting the truth out to *eachother*, then it's rather depressing, but whatever gets the ball rolling gets the ball rolling.

 

[VDweller]

I care! But I don't see there's anything that can be done.

Never know till you try. Doing nothing will ensure that nothing will happen. Your choice.

The devs are going to make the game they want to play (as long as it fits in with the marketing guys projections).

Like I said at DAC, no marketing guy will be comfortable making a game that's surrounded by negativity instead of hype.

I don't see how that's got anything to do with the community getting the game we deserve, as they most likely already had an idea of what game they were going to make when they bought the rights.

So did the FOBOS developers, and look where it got them.

Anyway...
http://www.duckandcover.cx/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16502

 

[Per]

There's always a question of cost-efficiency, and the community is about more things than Fallout 3. While raging at Bethesda accomplishes more in that regard than not raging at Bethesda, there are other things we can do with our time, especially those who aren't really that invested in Fallout 3 to begin with. I'd much rather be working on my own post-apocalyptic game than spend the same energy trying to influence the making or success of Fallout 3. Unfortunately, that's not really an option for me either.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

Never know till you try. Doing nothing will ensure that nothing will happen. Your choice.

Doing nothing is sometimes the best thing.

Like I said at DAC, no marketing guy will be comfortable making a game that's surrounded by negativity instead of hype.

Wanna bet, there's been plenty of sequels that have still been made in the midst of objectivity once the details had been known. And not just games, remember when the new BSG was announced, the negativity didn't kill that. Bad press won't kill the game before it's released. Only thing that will kill an xbox game is garlic and holy water (in other words bad gameplay and poor graphics).

So did the FOBOS developers, and look where it got them.

That's still got nothing to do with a moronic statement like the community will get the game they deserve.

Let them make their game their own way, they've already shown their willingness to listen to the community. Either way we'll get the blame for it's failures and no credit for any success.

Anyway...
http://www.duckandcover.cx/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16502

Ah I don't go there anymore.

 

[VDweller]

Doing NOTHING is sometimes the best thing.
...
That's still got nothing to do with a moronic statement like the community will get the game they DESERVE.

Need I say more?

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

Yes!

Sure as a consumer it would be nice to have some input, are you implying we lost that luxury because of the reactions and hostility of members of the community following the announcement of the deal? Then you could be right but I doubt it would of made much difference, and doesn't really equate to getting the 'game we deserve'.

Next you'll be blaming us for the cancellation of VB because of the reaction to FOBOS (before it was even released).

 

[VDweller]

Yes!

Sure as a consumer it would be nice to have some input, are you implying we lost that luxury because of the reactions and hostility of members of the community following the announcement of the deal?

Not at all. I'm not talking about the input, as you can't force Bethesda to listen to you. You can, however, influence a company indirectly. Once again, no company will be comfortable making a game that has a good chance of failing. By doing nothing, you have given Bethesda a luxury to disregard your wishes completely.

Next you'll be blaming us for the cancellation of VB because of the reaction to FOBOS (before it was even released).

You misunderstood.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

You misunderstood.

Seemingly.

But an FPS game on the xbox, well the only way it's going to fail is if turns out another stinker like FOBOS. Even if it only turns out to be a poor man's Deus Ex in a screwed up but open ended Fallout setting with great graphics it'll fly off the shelves, at first.

FO3 might well be beyond redemption so start thinking about saving FO4.

 

[SuAside]

so let me get this straight: we (as a community) deserve a craptic game because we (as a minority) don't constantly drive a hate campaign against Bethesda, that at best could warn others that the product will be "Oblivion with guns". the problem is that there is a huge potential market for "Oblivion with guns", VD.

what exactly do you hope to achieve by going into an all-out hatecampaign? do you expect Bethesda to apologize, scrap the project & start over from scratch? that seems to have worked quite well in the past indeed!

what exactly do you expect from us for fucks sake? dress up like ninja's, infiltrate Bethsoft HQ and leave memo's about a change of direction for FO3? or start a flamewar to burn Beth to the ground, thereby only achieving that they lost a teeeeny tiny part of their public and made Beth ignore us even more?

as for your example about how marketing doesnt want to make games that are refered to as "bad" by the general public: how about Postal? or GTA? the "bad" publicity was their hype...

 

[VDweller]

But an FPS game on the xbox, well the only way it's going to fail is if turns out another stinker like FOBOS.

Was there a realy big difference between FOBOS and Oblivion in terms of shitty design? The only difference was that one was overhyped and one was almost destroyed by anti-hype before the release.

so let me get this straight: we (as a community) deserve a craptic game because we (as a minority) don't constantly drive a hate campaign against Bethesda...

That's my opinion, not a fact.

...the problem is that there is a huge potential market for "Oblivion with guns", VD.

Not every shooter is a commercial success, as John Romero can tell you.

what exactly do you hope to achieve by going into an all-out hatecampaign? do you expect Bethesda to apologize, scrap the project & start over from scratch? that seems to have worked quite well in the past indeed!

Not at all. As to what I hope to achieve, well, there could be plenty different outcomes. Personally, I'm tired of all the bullshit in the gaming industry, I'm tired of unplayable games (I don't mean bugs) and the always-eager-to-suck-someone's-dick media. I think it's worth taking a stand, and FO3 is a good cause. There is a good chance that nothing will happen, but then there is a chance that something will happen, so why not try it?

what exactly do you expect from us for fucks sake? dress up like ninja's, infiltrate Bethsoft HQ and leave memo's about a change of direction for FO3? or start a flamewar to burn Beth to the ground, thereby only achieving that they lost a teeeeny tiny part of their public and made Beth ignore us even more?

To try to beat Bethesda in their own game - hype. We don't attack Bethesda at all, we create awareness, expectations, and anti-hype. It's not easy to succeed in this game, but it's easier than you think.

as for your example about how marketing doesnt want to make games that are refered to as "bad" by the general public: how about Postal? or GTA? the "bad" publicity was their hype...

Not that kind of bad.

 

[RPG of the year!!]

the problem is that there is a huge potential market for "Oblivion with guns", VD.

There was also a huge potential market for "Dark Alliance with guns".