Fallout listed as most significant game of 1997.

[UncannyGarlic]

You sir, are crazy! TF2 is spectacular.

If vanilla TF2 isn't to your liking, find servers that disable crits, unlocked weapons, etc.

TF2 should not have gameplay effecting unlockables, no FPS should. It's bad game design. It exaggerates the difference between new players and experienced players and adds nothing to the experience.

Competitive playing ruins everything. Halo before the dumbass MLG was just another popular FPS. Now I can't even stand it.

Competitive players play games correctly and push them to the limits. If a game falls apart (balance wise) in competitive play then it has major underlying flaws. I haven't heard of TF2 having this problem, I'm just speaking generally.

replace Warcraft 2 with C&C

I'm not sure why WarCraft 2 mad the list, presumably because it was popular and had a map editor. After reading the Wikipedia article on C&C though, it seems to be the more significant of the two. StarCraft was more significant than either of them but that was a later year. Looking at other games from the year, I'm not sure what belongs there but C&C seems like it should be higher on the list than WarCraft 2.

Also I failed to mention in my earlier post:
1980: Pac-Man - The biggest game of 1980? Sure, but the most significant? No. Pac-Man energized the arcade scene in the '80s but Rogue has had a far larger impact which is still effecting games. Pac-Man died in the '80s but Rogue not only laid the groundwork for RPGs (particularly dungeon crawls) but is still being cloned by small and large companies (such as Square-Enix) to this day.
1998: StarCraft - Everquest has been far more significant for the industry and, in conjunction with Diablo II, is the basis for the vast majority of MMORPGs (including WoW). That said, StarCraft was significant for competitive computer gaming, particularly in Korea, but I'd say that Counter-Strike had pretty much the same impact on competitive gaming (in the west) and that the influence of EverQuest on MMOs nails the Koreans at least as hard as StarCraft did (I'd say significantly harder due to it's continued impact).

 

[Crni Vuk]

Pac Man is just the more popular game. Thats all.

I have the feeling he made his list not with games that had a huge effect in mind but more with the "big" names.

 

[terebikun]

1998: StarCraft - Everquest has been far more significant for the industry and, in conjunction with Diablo II, is the basis for the vast majority of MMORPGs (including WoW). That said, StarCraft was significant for competitive computer gaming, particularly in Korea, but I'd say that Counter-Strike had pretty much the same impact on competitive gaming (in the west) and that the influence of EverQuest on MMOs nails the Koreans at least as hard as StarCraft did (I'd say significantly harder due to it's continued impact).

I would've agreed with you a couple months ago, but now that I'm actually in Korea, all I have to say is that EverQuest does not have whole TV channels dedicated to watching people play it. StarCraft 2 is going to be goddamn judgment day.

But that's Korea. Interestingly, Counter-Strike is also massively popular here, but only in the form of its Korean rip-off Sudden Attack.

 

[SuAside]

UncannyGarlic, i'm actually fine with the unlockables. hell, they're random drops AND unlockables.

however, i firmly believe that the new weapons should not be 'uber' in any way. they should be different than the default, but equal in value. it's ok to have the sniper's anti-spy shield if it means you walk slower and you've got less survivability up close due to lack of SMG.

i'm fine with that.

however, many unlockables are retardedly overpowered. don't like that at all.



PS: MLG? lawlz. it's called CPL, you noobies. oldskool CS for the win.

 

[fireb0rn]

If you don't find TF2 competitive, we must be playing different games.

General, that's the best definition of MLG I've ever read. Well met sir.

If coordinating invincibility usage with your team-mates is your definition of competitive, sure.

And MLG rules are probably (like in other leagues) agreed upon by competitive players. So if you don't like them my guess would be you're not a competitive player in the first place. Or you think random crits "spice up the game" or something along those lines.

 

[TheWesDude]

the influence of EverQuest on MMOs

you mean ultima online, not evershit

 

[swampcat]

Mass Effect is pretty damn meh.

good IMHO but not even worth the greatness of Deus Ex and
System Shock.

sorry for my bad english.

 

[sydney_roo]

You sir, are crazy! TF2 is spectacular.

If vanilla TF2 isn't to your liking, find servers that disable crits, unlocked weapons, etc.

TF2 should not have gameplay effecting unlockables, no FPS should. It's bad game design. It exaggerates the difference between new players and experienced players and adds nothing to the experience.

Finally someone who speaks sense. TF2 is extremely random and unbalanced. I don't agree with the choices from 2005. Well, MW2 maybe but HL2:E1 or L4D? Come on! Really glad to see Fallout there.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

And Quake 3 arena over UT? Haha, yeah right.

After 10 years of crystalization, I myself think it's pretty clear that Q3 > UT. Very influential game and very online-tested.

You lie sir! Although, the discussion is sort of pointless. Both games are extremely popular, and both had a lot of influence in making multiplayer shooters "big" (even if UT was a better game). Although probably neither as much as Half-life/Counter-strike.

2005: God of War - The only influence I can think of that it had was on incorporating quicktime events into regular gameplay, but it really never caught on too much. I'd say that Devil May Cry (2001) has been more influential for the genre. Not sure what would take it's place though.

Except that it wasn't the first one to do that either. Farenheit did that 2 years earler.



Overall: The list goes to hell after 2000 or so. On the one hand, 10 years and less isn't really enough to show "historical significance". On the other hand, even if we disregard the crappy picks from the last 3 years, things like Morrowind and Kotor shouldn't be there. I remember how Morrowind was bashed upon released for killing the cRPG genre, so unless we're also talking NEGATIVE influence... Games like Kingdom Hearts or NWN or BF1942 are more deserving of the title. Kotor is yet another generic Bioware release and I'm not really sure what makes it stand out, or what makes it so "historically significant".

Finally, the list sort of discredits itself by completely ignoring sports games as well as racing/simulator games.

 

[SmartCheetah]

the influence of EverQuest on MMOs

you mean ultima online, not evershit

You mean ultima online on niche sandbox MMO's ;] Everyquest had much more influence on carebear/themepark-type MMO's.
Oh well. There are plenty of Everquest successors.

 

[swampcat]

the influence of EverQuest on MMOs

you mean ultima online, not evershit

You mean ultima online on niche sandbox MMO's ;] Everyquest had much more influence on carebear/themepark-type MMO's.
Oh well. There are plenty of Everquest successors.

both good games if you ask me and both at the same quality
level even if they do differ for some features.

( but the Ultima saga always " charmed " me more than Everquest )

sorry for my bad english.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

however, i firmly believe that the new weapons should not be 'uber' in any way. they should be different than the default, but equal in value. it's ok to have the sniper's anti-spy shield if it means you walk slower and you've got less survivability up close due to lack of SMG.

i'm fine with that.

however, many unlockables are retardedly overpowered. don't like that at all.

They claim that they try to make the unlocks "sidegrades", equally powerful, just different, but they've made some mistakes. That's not my problem with unlockables though, my problem with them is that they provide alternate advantages and disadvantages which makes them useful for different strategies which gives players who possess them an advantage over players who don't. So even if the weapons were properly designed and balanced, it would still disadvantage new players. Add in the fact that there are some unlockables which are simply better (the Blut) and things are even worse. Hats, on the other hand, are perfectly fine as unlockables as long as they don't alter gameplay because they don't alter gameplay. They are cosmetic awards (which I now fear will actually matter with the crafting update) which are fun for some folks. Now that there is the crafting system, old players are going to have another advantage over old players which creates further imbalance.

Finally someone who speaks sense. TF2 is extremely random and unbalanced. I don't agree with the choices from 2005. Well, MW2 maybe but HL2:E1 or L4D? Come on! Really glad to see Fallout there.

Well it's really a lot better since they made criticals and (I believe) random damage togglable. Criticals are fine for competitive play when they aren't random (though I believe the chance rate increases based on damage delt, so the chance can be modified).

You mean ultima online on niche sandbox MMO's ;] Everyquest had much more influence on carebear/themepark-type MMO's.
Oh well. There are plenty of Everquest successors.

I'm not really sure of Ultima Online's impact but I get the impression that it helped to establish the MMORPG genre. If that's correct, it could very well take the 1997 slot. That said, my understanding is that Everquest is the specific game from which the majority of modern MMORPGs have drawn from (directly or indirectly) and it has certainly has a major impact on distribution of "major" MMO titles (WoW follows the same distribution theory, though with much fewer expansions).

 

[sydney_roo]

Overall: The list goes to hell after 2000 or so. On the one hand, 10 years and less isn't really enough to show "historical significance". On the other hand, even if we disregard the crappy picks from the last 3 years, things like Morrowind and Kotor shouldn't be there. I remember how Morrowind was bashed upon released for killing the cRPG genre, so unless we're also talking NEGATIVE influence...

Well, I think Morrowind was pretty good to be frank. It actually had some world behind the story that you could plunge into. And unlike Oblivion there was no magical arrow that guided you during quests which made the game challenging and console-user-unfriendly .

 

[Ausdoerrt]

^ Well, sure, but notice how the guy specifically says it's supposed to be not a "best of" list, but a "most influential" list? Well, I'm not quite so sure that works here.

 

[sydney_roo]

Then how the heck HL2:E1 is more influential than let's say HL2?

 

[OakTable]

Overall: The list goes to hell after 2000 or so. On the one hand, 10 years and less isn't really enough to show "historical significance". On the other hand, even if we disregard the crappy picks from the last 3 years, things like Morrowind and Kotor shouldn't be there. I remember how Morrowind was bashed upon released for killing the cRPG genre, so unless we're also talking NEGATIVE influence...

Well, I think Morrowind was pretty good to be frank. It actually had some world behind the story that you could plunge into. And unlike Oblivion there was no magical arrow that guided you during quests which made the game challenging and console-user-unfriendly .

Uh, I got Morrowind for the Xbox and I was pretty ok without an omniscient arrow. I honestly think some of the PC players annoyance at the Consolers is that companies frequently think players are morons, and apparently think consolers are the worst, so they add simplistic elements to multiplatform games thinking we can't understand complex elements which causes BAAAW on the old-school PC crowd as they get the same game. It's the same shit MTV does. Why appeal to the music crowd with interesting tv when they obviously are idiots who enjoy dating shows and retarded wiggers doing stupid shit with their bodyguard? /end sarcasm mode

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Then how the heck HL2:E1 is more influential than let's say HL2?

It wasn't but it was released the same year as WoW while HL2:E1 wasn't.

Uh, I got Morrowind for the Xbox and I was pretty ok without an omniscient arrow. I honestly think some of the PC players annoyance at the Consolers is that companies frequently think players are morons, and apparently think consolers are the worst, so they add simplistic elements to multiplatform games thinking we can't understand complex elements which causes BAAAW on the old-school PC crowd as they get the same game. It's the same shit MTV does. Why appeal to the music crowd with interesting tv when they obviously are idiots who enjoy dating shows and retarded wiggers doing stupid shit with their bodyguard? /end sarcasm mode

It completely depends on the specific players but I'd say that there is a certain amount of accuracy in the statement. Gaming has become increasingly common and normal, which has resulted in/is the result of a increasingly broad userbase. I really started to notice it with the XBox and it's become increasingly common with Rock Band, Guitar Hero, the 360, and the PS3. I'll call it the frat-boy crowd for the sake of identifying it with the stupidest group of people brought in by it. This crowd really is stupid and really doesn't like to have to work shit out (puzzles in various forms). Of course it ignores the retarded PC gamers who started picking up with the September That Never Ended and became noticable for me back in the days of CS (I saw the transition of gamers). Brazilians really exemplify that type of gamer (not all of them but the majority that I've run into and are commented upon). That said, there is also a group of old PC (and some console) gamers who played games that required them to put up with a lot of shit that was bad design or the result of bad design and complain/insult people for not putting up with said defects. It over simplifies things but I feel it's somewhat close.

Honestly it's pretty stupid to do a "Most Influential Game of the Year" list instead of simply a "Top XX Most Influential Games" list (which you could organize chronologically and have multiple in the same year) but I'd say it's still miles better than "Best XX Games" list (which are subjective and based on what games the author(s) have played).

 

[Feedbacker]

No ROTK? No PS 1/2? No D? No Okami? No SMT/Pesona? No CT?

The list can go on, but I should stop now before I get p*ssed off.

How could Okami possibly be considered influential? I can't think of any games that took any cue from it, and it basically just borrowed Legend of Zelda's formula. I love the game, but influential is the last word I'd use to describe it.