Fallout: New Vegas Honest Hearts Trailer and Screenshots
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Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
A guy talking about bringing vengance upon the earth in an obvious megalomaniac divinity complex is a clear sing of not being a crazy fuck, Still I think I am gonna side with him in my FIrst Play through just for the hell of it.
I'd consider to fight against him, as I want to see if he can die.
Maybe one should be able to take off his head to show it around the Mojave, so everyone can be sure that he is dead and thus shattering all the hopes and rumors 'n stuff of the legion slaver folks. Hurr durr.
/Edit: Also I'll guess if one is with the NCR, from story point of view, it's better to fight on his side and keeping him alive, as he is one of the few people who can have a big impact on the legion. If he is dead, this might be locked off.
/Edit²: Additionally, do we even know if we can really "fight on his side"? Didn't read anything like that yet, so it's still possible that we have to fight him, regardless of what happens.
Maybe one should be able to take off his head to show it around the Mojave, so everyone can be sure that he is dead and thus shattering all the hopes and rumors 'n stuff of the legion slaver folks. Hurr durr.
/Edit: Also I'll guess if one is with the NCR, from story point of view, it's better to fight on his side and keeping him alive, as he is one of the few people who can have a big impact on the legion. If he is dead, this might be locked off.
/Edit²: Additionally, do we even know if we can really "fight on his side"? Didn't read anything like that yet, so it's still possible that we have to fight him, regardless of what happens.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Well they said that depending on your decisions the fate of Zion would change, and this is a Tribal war story, it would be logical to expect to be able to pick sides, then again, the achievemnts on Steam only reward helping the Mormon Misionary Daniel and crushing the White Legs wich kind of worries me becase it may imply t hat there will only be one side to help.
gumbarrel said:
The fiends use the skulls, not the whole head. :>
requiem_for_a_starfury
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Why does it weird you out? And what is so silly about the Hub?DemonNick said:
It's very cliched and somewhat racist depiction, especially Sulik and Hakunin. Fallout already had tribals, it just didn't need to label them as such or depict them as half naked primitives. Nearly everyone is living a basic hand to mouth existance and split into 'tribes', you had settlers in Shady Sands, Junktown etc making do with little or no technology. You already had nomadic or aggressive hunters in the Caravans and Raiders and you had a resurgence of superstition in the Hub around beliefs about the Deathclaw.
Instead of exploring the backsliding of these groups in FO2 all the small towns are still at the level of the settlements in Fallout. Why does everyone in Klamath and the Den treat tribals with such disdain when there's so little between difference between them? Why are the people of Arroyo living in tents when they've found the 'Temple'? They are not nomads otherwise they'd just pack up and move on when the drought hit so if the Temple is too sacred to be used why haven't the built more permanent domiciles? The Gun Runners and Brotherhood have been manufacturing and trading weapons for years and there are still plenty of prewar caches to be found so why are they using spears?
The reason tribals were problematic in FO2 is that outside of Vault City, The NCR, New Reno and the Enclave they should all be tribals.
TheFlyingBuddha
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I think the most interesting thing to me was that the last few seconds seem to show an area with an awful lot of green. A little hard to see with the focus effect they used, but still. Looks like we might get an area with some legit plant life.
As for the music - nothing surprising there it's all reused. Once the tribals start fighting it's just the weird out of place ending music from FO3. I think that was one of my problems with NV ending slides - they used the same damn sappy music.
As for the tribals -- the problem is mainly a lack of explanation as to why they revert and act the way they do. It's not really that crazy to imagine bands of survivors that lived outside during the war falling back that much.
It's important to note that a lot of the other groups mentioned often had roots in a Vault somewhere (Shady Sands for example). I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume that settlements that more closely resemble contemporary society all have some sort of vault or pre-war influence in their past wheras the tribals exemplify the most extreme scenario of regression.
Now, the real problem with the tribal thing is Arroyo. Since Arroyo was founded by the first VD and those who left 13 definitely kind of wonky that it turned into such a regressed group. But that's all in the name of the game really, they needed a different kind of background story for the player.
As for the music - nothing surprising there it's all reused. Once the tribals start fighting it's just the weird out of place ending music from FO3. I think that was one of my problems with NV ending slides - they used the same damn sappy music.
As for the tribals -- the problem is mainly a lack of explanation as to why they revert and act the way they do. It's not really that crazy to imagine bands of survivors that lived outside during the war falling back that much.
It's important to note that a lot of the other groups mentioned often had roots in a Vault somewhere (Shady Sands for example). I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume that settlements that more closely resemble contemporary society all have some sort of vault or pre-war influence in their past wheras the tribals exemplify the most extreme scenario of regression.
Now, the real problem with the tribal thing is Arroyo. Since Arroyo was founded by the first VD and those who left 13 definitely kind of wonky that it turned into such a regressed group. But that's all in the name of the game really, they needed a different kind of background story for the player.
requiem_for_a_starfury said:
If you don't think the Den is silly you need to go back and talk to Loxley, or Lorenzo at the Friendly Lending Company, or any of the other characters who act like parodies of pop culture stereotypes about criminals.
Tribals on the other hand fit into Fallout really well. The problem with your post is that you're assuming that tribal regression was natural. It's not. If you read the backstory, Arroyo consciously backslid into tribalism, deliberating adopting primitive titles and codes of behaviour, which is why The Vault Dweller left in the first place. It fits into a running theme in pretty much every Fallout game (though it's strongest in 2 and New Vegas) of Postwar humanity really having no idea of what they should do or be now. So people adopt these weird cargo cult versions of pre-war pop cultural norms, which for the Vault 13 refugees probably meant these weird and very cliche ideas of tribalism.
It's only weird if you're expecting cultural realism from Fallout, and honestly that's kind of a silly thing.
There is no New Canaan in this DLC.
brfritos
Humma Kavulaaaaaaa
requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Actually the interpretation is correct, the image of tribals we have in our modern days are that, a bunch of half naked savages pimitives.
But I have an National Geographic magazine from 2003 (or 2004), with an article of some people in Kentucky going tribal. They shauned the modern way of life and organized themselves in a small farm in the middle of nowhere. The woman and man work naked or whatever they feel is appropriate to wear, they raise their own food, trade for other goods in nearby towns, have an chief and council and so on.
They use modern medicine and brush their teeth, after all they are not dumb (rotten teeth are a source of diseases, is not only for the looks), but their social structure is very different. They don't use internet, TV and other communication equipment. Married couples have relationships with other partners whatever they feel attracted to someone, but they aren't promiscuous (in most modern societies this behaviour is not accepted or encouraged).
I lived three years of my life working in a farm here in Brazil, raising cattle, in summer days most of the time I was wearing only my boots and my pants, without a shirt during the day. This makes me a tribal? You can do this in a office?
So yes, the depict in the game are somewhat accurate, any person will change if they live in a very small town or community and the social structure of this communities will also be very different.
Add a nuclear holocaust in the equation and you bet humans will regress to earlier stages.
Walpknut said:
Did you tried Love and Hate? I prefer this weapon over a Powerfist, only changing after getting Pushy or Ballistic Fist.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
brfritos said:
When I fund them I already had my ballistic fist and displacer glove, so I didn't use them.
requiem_for_a_starfury
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Regression isn't the problem, go read Lord of the Flies or Earth Abides. The problem is the simplistic and stereotypical depiction of half naked child like primitives with mystical powers.TheFlyingBuddha said:
The Hub is one of the most prosperous settlements in Fallout it can afford a few pop culture references. It doesn't make the Hub in itself silly besides where there's law there's usually criminals.DemonNick said:
You mean the backstory written by the developers who chose to depict Arroyo in this way? The backstory that also says the Vaultdweller taught them engineering and science to build their homes. Tribes are already in Fallout, The Kharns, Vipers, Jackals, Shady Sands, Junktown, the Hub and the Boneyard these are all groups that are showing some aspects of tribalism and backsliding without resorting to stereotypes.DemonNick said:
No I was expecting the developers not to fall back on cliched troublesome depictations of primitive cultures.DemonNick said:
There is a big difference between a group of people choosing an alternate lifestyle and a group of game developers perpetuating cultural stereotypes.brfritos said:
No Living in a group with strong social ties is what would make you tribal.brfritos said:
Yet Sulik from a different community would fit right in Arroyo, and the people of the Den, Klamath, Modoc, Redding all maintain a similar lifestyle to each other while subject to the same difficulties of Post Nuclear life as Sulik's tribe.brfritos said:
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
You are already saying that the tribals in the DLC are gonna be child like with magic powers but the fucking thing isn't even out yet.
No, he was discussing tribals as implemented in Fallout 2. Pay attention if you want to comment.
We've had bad experienced with tribals, to the point where MCA even apologized for em. And now Obsidian of all people puts em back in? Eh.
We've had bad experienced with tribals, to the point where MCA even apologized for em. And now Obsidian of all people puts em back in? Eh.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Well we still don't know how they will be depicted, they way they dress may look cliched but we still don't know if they are gonna be a village full of Suliks, maybe they will be better developed and mroe realistic, they seem to use Powerfists and remains of Combat Armor wich would imply them voluntarily pursuing a tribal lifestyle, thats what I was saying, people are already getting upset about something hasn't happened in this game yet because it happened in a previous game, we saw the "Tribals" from New Vegas, they went beyond stereotypes with them.