Fallout: New Vegas "Mocking JRPGs" Advertisement

[LionXavier]

Re: Fallout: New Vegas "Mocking JRPGs" Advertiseme

That's the point of the ad.

As sarfa has said, I was referring to VATS, a major characteristic of their game that turns out to be a very good exemple of an argument used to criticize the competition in their ads. There's is the irony.

Technically speaking, that's not true at all.

The point most people don't seem to get when comparing targeted shots to V.A.T.S. is that one is turn-based, and the other is a cheat system which lets you continue playing straight after taking your "turn".

I never mentioned Fallout 3 and/or VATS. I was talking about JRPGS.

Looks like there's been a confusion. As I was referring to VATS in the post you quoted, it looked like you were comparing it to the original Fallout's turn-based combat; but now I can see that you thought I was referring to the general mechanics of JRPG's turn-based combat when I was quoting the "games becoming something that you watch" bit, which is not case nor the intention of the advertisement, which is obviously referring to the extensive presence of cutscenes and general linearity in games.

But hey, let's just lump it all together, shall we? It's all targeted, and every every click is you telling your character what to do, rather than you doing it in real time (like any run-of-the-mill FPS).

Oh, but when the gameplay is that of a FPS, being able to do so is indeed watching the game playing by itself. The gameplay style is what matters in this regard: nobody gets surprised when a player's unit in a RTS game fights automatically against an enemy, but they surely would if that happened to their character in a fighting game.

But really, we don't want to derail this thread in yet another VATS discussion, do we? I much prefer to keep getting delighted with the fine irony of this ad:

"A game where you just follow the scenario is like living life on rails."

Liberty Prime anyone?

 

[PaladinHeart]

Eh? Fallout 3's VATS would be about the only FPS game example I've played where that's the case, but I get what you're saying.

As for your Liberty Prime comment.. yeah, it's funny that Bethesda even allowed some of these comments. It's kinda like if Homer were to get someone to help him make an advertisement against someone he doesn't like, and the ad pokes fun at irresponsible couch potatoes who drink beer and eat twinkies all day.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Eh? Fallout 3's VATS would be about the only FPS game example I've played where that's the case, but I get what you're saying.

I'm pretty sure that's the point (it's certainly what's ironic abou the statement), they are insulting something which they (I assume Beth is behind the campaign) themselves did.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/...opment-3d-not-supporting-nintendo-and-more/1/

An interview with Todd Howard where he comments on JRPGS.

IG: In terms of the RPG genre, you guys do a fantastic job and a lot of the western developers are leading that charge now; maybe Japan is a little weaker in that area. Final Fantasy XIII is selling pretty well, but it seems whether it’s you or BioWare, or Peter Molyneux with the Fable series, there’s just a really strong western RPG presence. Do have any thoughts on the state of the Japanese RPGs? Do you play them personally?

TH: I don’t. I look at them. Artistically, I think they’re really, really good. I’ve never been one to draw lines, though I think it’s easier in this case to say, “these are the western and these are the eastern ones.” I think, by and large, if you look at Japanese games, overall their mindset is way more fantastical, even if it’s not an RPG. Personally for me, sometimes I like that and sometimes I have a hard time wrapping my hands around it. A western game… again I’m generalizing, they’re more realistic. Even if it’s post-apocalyptic America Fallout, there’s this filter on it: well, this could really be happening. It’s got this somewhat of a suspension of disbelief, even when we do fantasy stuff. If you compare the sci-fi in Mass Effect to the science fiction in a million Japanese games, it just gets really, really out there. I think the two sensibilities break down more like that.

 

[Gaddes]

Todd Howard is the last person I want talking about RPG's and even less when talking about JRPGs. Interesting find either way.

 

[Per]

Do have any thoughts on the state of the Japanese RPGs? Do you play them personally?

TH: I don’t. I look at them.

This is when JRPGs became something you look at.

 

[PaladinHeart]

So basically his advertising campaign pokes fun at something he knows nothing about.. Next thing you know, he'll be saying that he invented the JRPG.

 

[aenemic]

the whole point of this is probably to beat into the heads of the general public that Bethesda creates REAL rpg's, building their reputation as the best company in the rpg market.

paranoia aside, I don't find it particularly clever or funny. just weird, actually.

 

[rcorporon]

Meh...typical anti-JRPG nonsense. Let's break these down:

Says one, "A game where you just follow the scenario is like living life on rails."

This is just stupid. All games have a beginning / middle / end, with the exception of games like SimCity.

Another: "What's the point of playing again if there's no change to the story."

Another nonsensical argument... I can't think of any games where the story changes to any drastic amount. Even in a game like "Fallout" (any of them) the ending is still the same, regardless of what type of character you bring through.

Hell, I enjoy re-watching movies or re-reading books despite the fact that the story never changes.

The girl to the left: "When did games become something that you watch?"

Ever since we evolved eyes?

The tall one in back: "I think it would be nice if the main character had a mission aside from just wiping out evil."

Yeah... just like in Dragon Age how you don't fight evil... wait... or in Fallout how you don't fight the forces of evil... no... wait...

Suggests the one sitting in front: "The world has been prepared. After that, you're free to do as you please!"

I can't think of any western RPG's that follow this gem either... GTA games are more along this line of thinking.

[/quote]Hahaha, these are pretty great. You have to wonder how the Japanese still aren't sick of JRPGs yet, a genre that has barely evolved at all.

What a silly comment... You could say the same thing using FPS's:

"You have to wonder how Americans still aren't sick of FPSs yet, a genre that has barely evolved at all."

 

[terebikun]

I can't stop looking at the guy on the far right. It's like he's a guy they found off the street, threw him in a gray shirt and jeans, and gave him a sign. He just wanted directions to the co-op.

All games have a beginning / middle / end, with the exception of games like SimCity.

I disagree. My bustling metropolis of HoboTown had a distinct construction/prosperity/spamming-every-disaster-button progression.

 

[KING SHIT]

There's kind of a difference between watching a 10 second VATS shot and watching a 45 minute cutscene full of ridiculous JRPG drivel

 

[LionXavier]

There's kind of a difference between watching a 10 second VATS shot and watching a 45 minute cutscene full of ridiculous JRPG drivel

Not when you accumulate all the "10 seconds of VATS shot" moments of an average playthroung. In fact, I think that it even has the chance to beat some of those JRPGs in the amount of cinematic-time

 

[PaladinHeart]

Plus, most JRPGs have the option of skipping said cinematics.. often by accident when you'd just like to pause it. xP

"Wait.. what.. who is that? What's going on? Why am I fighting him. Was that suppose to be Perseus or something?"

Not that God of War 2 is a JRPG or anything, but that was basically my experience when I got to that part.

 

[Stealste]

The tall one in back: "I think it would be nice if the main character had a mission aside from just wiping out evil."

Yeah... just like in Dragon Age how you don't fight evil... wait... or in Fallout how you don't fight the forces of evil... no... wait...

But you've missed the point. In Fallout 3 you could collect scrap metal whilst wiping out evil.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

There's kind of a difference between watching a 10 second VATS shot and watching a 45 minute cutscene full of ridiculous JRPG drivel

You're saying that VATS is less idiotic and childish than the cutscenes in JRPGs? Really?

 

[KING SHIT]

There's kind of a difference between watching a 10 second VATS shot and watching a 45 minute cutscene full of ridiculous JRPG drivel

You're saying that VATS is less idiotic and childish than the cutscenes in JRPGs? Really?

I have to watch 10 hours of cutscenes to know what the hell is going on in the story of FF13. I can choose not to use VATS. The cutscenes are definitely worse.

 

[LionXavier]

I have to watch 10 hours of cutscenes to know what the hell is going on in the story of FF13. I can choose not to use VATS. The cutscenes are definitely worse.

You can, but you most probably wont. I mean, the game is designed for the player to count on the support of VATS, isn't it? Not using it would be unintuitive; it wold be like... I don't know... forcing yourself to not use special attacks in a fighting game: you can do it, but... why make your gaming experience worse than it should be? (and VATS is even easier to perform than most fighting games' special attacks).
At the end, what do we have?: a considerable amount of time spent in repetitive slow-motion cinematics that you can't even skip by pressing a button like in most JRPGs.

On the other hand, your same argument can be used in favor of JRPG's cutscenes: I can skip them, even if that means that I'm willingly missing integral parts of the game.

 

[Crni Vuk]

truth is though that both Oblivion and Fallout 3 are as linear in their scenario as any JRPG. Well Fallout 3 offers a bit more of a "choice" here and there. But its still far away from anything that I call a real roleplaying experience.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

On the other hand, your same argument can be used in favor of JRPG's cutscenes: I can skip them, even if that means that I'm willingly missing integral parts of the game.

That's...not exactly the same thing. Playing without VATS is more along the lines of a self-imposed challenge (like playing Resident Evil 1 only with the knife, for example). But if you skip the cutscenes in a JRPG you don't understand the story.

 

[LionXavier]

That's...not exactly the same thing. Playing without VATS is more along the lines of a self-imposed challenge (like playing Resident Evil 1 only with the knife, for example). But if you skip the cutscenes in a JRPG you don't understand the story.

Well, in the same way someone could argue that playing a JRPG skipping the cutscenes, and thus without understanding the story or knowing where they have to go next for example, would be a self-imposed challenge; others could call both things being an idiot. What you want to call it is up to you, but at its root, the implication is the same: you are willingly missing content that is an integral part of the game.

Oh, by the way... is it even possible to finish RE1 only with the knife? (that is, without shooting even once)