Fan Desire for Zelda Series to Copy Fallout 3

[UncannyGarlic]

You must really suck at Zelda games if you think the internet is essential to complete one.

Actually Majora's Mask just had some obnoxious bullshit that you needed a strategy guide for. There was quite a bit of time specific shit and a lot of it didn't drop any hints about the time. Also, there was the conversations that required a specific mask in order to get the reward, some of these didn't give you any hints about their existence either. Heart pieces are easy to miss as well so those aren't unreasonable to need/want a guide for.

If it were any other Zelda game, I'd agree with you.

 

[SharkClub]

You must really suck at Zelda games if you think the internet is essential to complete one.

Actually Majora's Mask just had some obnoxious bullshit that you needed a strategy guide for. There was quite a bit of time specific shit and a lot of it didn't drop any hints about the time. Also, there was the conversations that required a specific mask in order to get the reward, some of these didn't give you any hints about their existence either. Heart pieces are easy to miss as well so those aren't unreasonable to need/want a guide for.

If it were any other Zelda game, I'd agree with you.

I'll agree Majora's Mask was difficult to figure out but it wasn't completely impossible without a guide/the internet...

I don't recall having to use a guide or the internet to complete Majora's Mask... when I was... like... 10?

You guys should try Castlevania II: Simon's Quest.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

I'll agree Majora's Mask was difficult to figure out but it wasn't completely impossible without a guide/the internet...

I don't recall having to use a guide or the internet to complete Majora's Mask... when I was... like... 10?

You guys should try Castlevania II: Simon's Quest.

I'm not talking about to beat the game, I'm talking about 100% completion. I only remember using a guide to get the final few masks that I was missing (something like 5-10).

 

[Dionysus]

Actually Majora's Mask just had some obnoxious bullshit that you needed a strategy guide for. There was quite a bit of time specific shit and a lot of it didn't drop any hints about the time. Also, there was the conversations that required a specific mask in order to get the reward, some of these didn't give you any hints about their existence either. Heart pieces are easy to miss as well so those aren't unreasonable to need/want a guide for.

That's part of why it's the best Zelda game. It doesn't have a ton of handholding. It has an old-school emphasis on exploration and a rare emphasis on exploring time as well as space. If you want to see everything in the game, then you need to need to explore everything. And if you don't want to explore everything, then you don't deserve to get 100%.

I really believe that MM would have been remembered as one of the great adventure games if it came out as a PC exclusive with a decent original setting. It was too ballsy for the Zelda set.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Well, to Garlic's credit, there's a world of difference between hand-holding and providing reasonable hints for the player to figure stuff out. If the puzzles (and one could consider figuring out how to get this or that) don't drop understandable hints, they turn into "try everything in every possible combination until you get some result", which is bullshit rather than exploration.

 

[OakTable]

Actually, i think Fallout 3 has A LOT to learn from a game like "The Legend Of Zelda: Majora's Mask". The game really isn't for casual gamers. It takes some effort to actually finish the game.

Because having crap you can't figure out without Internet help is GENIUS!

You must really suck at Zelda games if you think the internet is essential to complete one.

I was friggin 8 when I played Majora's Mask. How the hell was I supposed to figure that stuff out? "Oh, here's a slow time song and a über mask, but good luck finding it without buying our guide for 20 bucks." OoT was much more self-explanatory. Still challenging, but not like MM.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Well, to Garlic's credit, there's a world of difference between hand-holding and providing reasonable hints for the player to figure stuff out. If the puzzles (and one could consider figuring out how to get this or that) don't drop understandable hints, they turn into "try everything in every possible combination until you get some result", which is bullshit rather than exploration.

Right and that's my problem with some of the quests in Majora's Mask (if I remember correctly, it's been a decade and I did get fed up with it at a certain point). The time system was largely responsible and I do remember waiting at a few places all three days for a quest to pop-up before using a guide (which I believe consisted of a photocopy of a friends Nintendo Power page) but I seem to remember a mask that required doing a series of events with no clues on all three days, leading up to a puzzle that, if you failed, would cause you to have to do it all over (I'm not sure if I didn't fail or failed once). I'm almost positive that it's pretty unreasonable to happen upon all of the time specific events in the journal.

Maybe if I went back and replayed it today, I'd have a different result.

 

[Dionysus]

I was friggin 8 when I played Majora's Mask. How the hell was I supposed to figure that stuff out? "Oh, here's a slow time song and a über mask, but good luck finding it without buying our guide for 20 bucks." OoT was much more self-explanatory. Still challenging, but not like MM.

Cry me a river. I was fucking 7 when my parents bought me Ultima II. That game didn't tell me anything. In order to beat it, I had to run around and give money to anyone that seemed like an important NPC (they all only had one line of "dialog") in hopes that they would give me a necessary item. Someone would say "you need the quicksword to destroy Minax", but I didn't know what town it was in or what planet it was on or what time it existed in. And that's the way it was and we liked it! Finding everything in a game was an accomplishment. Beating a game meant something.

But you gen Y-ers need to have everything handed to you on a silver platter. Oh no, we wouldn't want you to get less than 100% on something! Everyone needs to get a gold star! We couldn't possibly have some real depth in a game. We wouldn't want some things in a game that only a small percentage of players will experience. Everybody needs to feel special! You people make me sick.

 

[Ausir]

Another one:

http://legendzelda.net/legend-of-zelda-articles/nintendo-should-add-skills-for-link/

 

[SharkClub]

So much facepalm right now.

 

[OakTable]

I was friggin 8 when I played Majora's Mask. How the hell was I supposed to figure that stuff out? "Oh, here's a slow time song and a über mask, but good luck finding it without buying our guide for 20 bucks." OoT was much more self-explanatory. Still challenging, but not like MM.

Cry me a river. I was fucking 7 when my parents bought me Ultima II. That game didn't tell me anything. In order to beat it, I had to run around and give money to anyone that seemed like an important NPC (they all only had one line of "dialog") in hopes that they would give me a necessary item. Someone would say "you need the quicksword to destroy Minax", but I didn't know what town it was in or what planet it was on or what time it existed in. And that's the way it was and we liked it! Finding everything in a game was an accomplishment. Beating a game meant something.

But you gen Y-ers need to have everything handed to you on a silver platter. Oh no, we wouldn't want you to get less than 100% on something! Everyone needs to get a gold star! We couldn't possibly have some real depth in a game. We wouldn't want some things in a game that only a small percentage of players will experience. Everybody needs to feel special! You people make me sick.

So people who like some hints to hidden content in a kid's game make you sick? This shit is Serious Business, man. Serious Business. And I really love how you insult me in the first and last sentences of your rant. Keeping the thing consistent and what not.

 

[Morbus]

Sorry to intrude...

I always found that "finding everything" in a game just because is a bit like the big kids in school throwing all my books into the air and making me pick them up: it takes no effort from their side, and is completely pointless.

 

[Aphyosis]

But you gen Y-ers need to have everything handed to you on a silver platter. Oh no, we wouldn't want you to get less than 100% on something! Everyone needs to get a gold star! We couldn't possibly have some real depth in a game. We wouldn't want some things in a game that only a small percentage of players will experience. Everybody needs to feel special! You people make me sick.

Sorry, but real depth does not equate to a game where you get told "Find X" and thats it. Real depth comes from a immersive atmosphere, enjoyable gameplay and a compelling story.

A challenge is one thing, but not being told shit is another thing entirely. How about instead of "Find this magical sword!", we go "Find this magical sword!, last i heard it was in X General area". When the PC Gets there, they must figure out the location via clues. Or "Legend has it, the lord holds it in his arms, etc etc) and stick in a church or other reference.

 

[OakTable]

Sorry to intrude...

I always found that "finding everything" in a game just because is a bit like the big kids in school throwing all my books into the air and making me pick them up: it takes no effort from their side, and is completely pointless.

Meh, some people like finding all the hidden stuff in a game. I don't usually do it unless it rewards me with XP, weapons, Easter eggs, etc.

 

[Seymour the spore plant]

From where I'm standing, these Zelda fans already got their wish with Twilight Princess - an entirely pointless new iteration on the series that rehashes just about EVERYTHING from Ocarina of Time (Jesus, even the order of the temples) except exactly that which made it good in the first place. Sounds plenty Failoutish to me.

Seriously though, what on Earth would Zelda gain from tacked-on RPG elements that barely impact on its well-established adventure/puzzle solving oriented gameplay? Maybe a little level grinding to make those insanely hard boss fights last only one hit instead of three?

You guys should try Castlevania II: Simon's Quest

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. And to think that people to this day credit Symphony of the Night as the first Metroidvania.