FOBOS/FOPOS, how to fix it?

Discussion in 'Future Fallout Game Discussion' started by The Dutch Ghost, Oct 22, 2011.

  1. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hello all,

    Not really sure if this belongs in the new Fallout Games subforum but I would like to ask people here how FOBOS (or FOPOS as its also known) could be fixed and turned into a proper Fallout game.

    I have played and finished the game, and though it deserves its reputation there are still elements in it which I liked.
    The Super Mutant Remnants search for a cure to FEV caused sterility, a Ghoul Cult that hates and enslaves humans, and the secret Vault Tec Vault; a facility that could have rebuild the Vault Tec Corporations in the Post Nuclear War world.

    What things would have to be changed, added, and especially removed.

    To me starters would be;

    -Removal of stupid juvenile humor
    -Reduction of swearing
    -Removal of over the top and a lot of the self made weapons
    -Removal or rewrite of several NPCs in the game
    -Addition of more non combat skills and better influence in the game.
    -More 'gray' situations and less 'black and white' ones (or make the black ones at least somewhat compelling to consider other than 'lets be an evil asshole for the sake of it')
    -Better quests (no "Kill that many critters' quests")
    -Companion characters with their own skills, traits, and goals (I really wanted to recruit the Vault Dweller when I ran into him)
    -Reduction or removal of strict level progression (more free form exploration and carrying out of quests)
    -Removal of all the Bawls advertisement (that speaks for itself)

    And how should it be like? FO1/FO2 like, or FNV like?

    I am not considering of starting such a project, I am simply curious what people's opinions here are.
    Perhaps there are some suggestions here that offer inspiration.
  2. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Guest

    I applaud the effort to make a horrible game a better one. The game did possess a couple of things that make a game good, but failed to do much of anything great. Taking the Neverwinter Night formula should have worked, but my biggest complaint of POS was how it didn't feel like Fallout.

    You listed many things that would be necessary already, but here are a couple of my ideas:

    More character distinction.
    More open-ended environments.
    Less Canon-Shattering bullshit.
    More RPG

    But to be honest I find myself wanting to write five pages worth of things that could be done better in POS.
  3. The Suave Gambler

    The Suave Gambler First time out of the vault

    Feb 22, 2011
    If you're going to make a game about the BoS specifically, I'd make it a squad based shooter similar to Star Wars: Republic Commando. Simply because none of the current Fallout games can accurately display such a scale of action needed to make the BoS perform actions of badass-ery that stands up to their image.

    I haven't played FOBoS, but I've heard that its full of guns, creatures, and locations that violate Canon. So from my standpoint I think a complete rewrite that fleshes out conflicts that have been discussed or discovered by the player character in the main series of Fallout games, rather than making something up out of thin air.

    Thats not to say that there shouldn't be original bits of the plot, but it should be based on actual canon and use parts of the story that were never explained. When making a spinoff you should never have to create AND explain a concept all in one shot, or you're setting yourself up to fail.

    *edit* looked up some gameplay. They also need to stop trying to action-movie the universe into something its not. Fallout has always been realism grounded plot with silly elements (Realistic Plot: Nation Rebuilding, Silly Element: Super Mutants, FEV in general.)

    The game shouldn't throw big breasted characters in my face from the start of the game, at that point it just doesn't feel like fallout.
  4. Atomkilla

    Atomkilla Hazel Hegemon oTO Orderite

    Dec 26, 2010
    That's quite impressive, Dutch.

    I personally have very little experience with this game. Almost none.
    Still, from what I've read, it truly is POS.


    ...this does sound interesting.

    While I think that trying to remake or rectify this game in any way, reusing some of these elements in future Fallout titles could produce interesting results.
  5. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Well the BOS references could be somewhat diminished or completely removed if that would work better.

    Anyway I see no need to make a Fallout squad based shooter with the BOS.
    Their reputation is also not completely deserved as the BOS in general does not go out to perform military operations, only when it is in their own interest.
    Normally they prefer to be left alone.

    Its more individuals in the BOS that sometimes deal with threats to the wasteland.

    But not everything was made out of thin air, some elements were from the original games such as the Super Mutant remnants that survived the death of the Master and the destruction of the vats.
    Or the Ghoul survivors who fled from Necropolis.

    This is a side story and not a full sequel that has to carry on everything from the previous games.

    I addressed the weapons part, and with creatures it was mostly that their models were flawed and there were some over the top additions but nothing really that did not exist in Fallout previously. (Deathclaw variants, Ghoul types)

    The locations also did not really clash with canon either as it took place outside California.
    Carbon and Los really did not have much connection back west, and the Secret Vault Tec is not such a bad idea as it would make sense that Vault Tec would have its own facility separate from the main network for its CEO and employees.

    I am a bit in a dilemma about this one, as reusing them in another Fallout game that may be a sequel or another spin off would still be sort of plagiarism.
    That is why I was interested how people would instead fix this game.

    Hope to hear more suggestions from people.
  6. Atomkilla

    Atomkilla Hazel Hegemon oTO Orderite

    Dec 26, 2010
    True, though NV reused Van Buren stuff, right? It's not the same thing, I get your point, but if, hypothetically, there are elements in some future title that just take the rough concept from FOBOS' assets, without much detailing that is akin to FOBOS, it wouldn't be so bad.
  7. Ben

    Ben Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Oct 6, 2011
    Less crotch jokes
  8. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Well the Ghoul Cult sounds a bit like Clarke's Children of the Wasteland from Van Buren and I liked that idea of a Ghoul Cult that keeps enslaved humans more.
    Especially that they were set up at Los Alamos and were trying to developed dirty bombs to use against normal humans.

    But I like the anti technology dogma of the Church of the Lost and absurd views about their mutations. (there was no Luddite like organization in Fallout at the time)
  9. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    So what would be the best style, it to remain top down, like in Fallout 1 and 2, or like Fallout New Vegas?
  10. Ben

    Ben Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Oct 6, 2011
    More like New Vegas, it can actually give justice to a revolver
  11. Atomkilla

    Atomkilla Hazel Hegemon oTO Orderite

    Dec 26, 2010
    Top down, of course. First person is very clunky when it comes to Fallout games. Not to mention completely unnecessary.
  12. Starseeker

    Starseeker Vault Senior Citizen

    Jul 25, 2003
    I hate to admit it, but I did play and finish this game. I was bored and tried to rent something to play back then. In my defense, I saw the Black Is/Interplay logo on this game sitting close to the Baldur's gate game, so I rented both.

    It's obvious from the outset that they were clones of each other with different skins. It was probably assumed (speculation here) that the Baldur's Gate game will sell well or better than the BOS game, so they didn't bother to work on that as much. BG: DA 2 had 6 playable characters and something resembling a storyline, but BOS didn't even get that far. If you want to understand the elements in BOS that didn't quite feel right for a FO game, all you need to do is go play BG: DA 2. BoS wasn't as much a game as a game as a re-skin cash in on one of the few intellectual property they had left. It is telling that Black Is closed right after these 2 games.

    It is also interesting to speculate that these 2 games might have given Todd the idea of the FO games. All we need to do is re-skin Oblivion and it will be great!

    The biggest problem I had with BoS can probably be attributed to DA 2. There is nothing wrong with a Diablo clone per se, but as we all know fully well, FO isn't a Diablo game. Hack and slash, linear progression, lack of affects on your surroundings, your choices, companions or even yourself are not exactly what made FO a FO.

    I didn't mind the advertisement and the swearing as much, because you can ignore those. They are just cosmetics. If you played BoS, I recommend you to play DA 2 just to see what I am talking about.
  13. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all

    Apr 3, 2003
    Why look to improve it? Revel in its badness

    I'm hoping to find the time to do a LP for NMA some day.
  14. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I know its not a good game, but there are still some elements in it which I like and feel are worth saving.
    But as I told Atomkilla, to copy these and reuse them in a different Fallout game and pretend it to be new feels like plagiarism to me. (and strangely enough it makes me feel bad)

    So then it would perhaps be better to fix something instead.

    I have also wanted to make a LP for people who are curious about this game but do not want to buy it for logical reasons but I don't have the cable to hook my PS2 up to my PC.
  15. Surf Solar

    Surf Solar So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2009
    I don't really understand how exactly you want to "fix" it?
  16. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I probably 'worded' it wrong when I wrote the title for this thread.
    What I meant was, how could this game have been improved or if some kind of remake (using elements of the game) was ever made, what should be done to make it a better Fallout like experience.

    I was curious what kind of suggestions people had and if these could give me some fresh thoughts and perspectives for my own ideas on Fallout.
  17. Umbersona

    Umbersona First time out of the vault

    Jan 19, 2012
    What's wrong with BAWLS? It's a great drink and pretty damn fitting for the setting. If Sunset Sarsaparilla is a regional soda, there is no reason BAWLS can't be.
  18. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Do you know how old this topic is?
  19. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    Yea, around 2 months since the latest post. I don't think that's very old. :>