SmartCheetah
It Wandered In From the Wastes
You'll need only two files from fallout2 full installation. Critter.dat i master.dat. It's around 300-400mb's.
FOnline: 2238 Developers Video #2
- Thread starter Per
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It Wandered In From the Wastes
shihonage
Made in USSR
scypior said:
True, but the rendering code looks eerily similar to Fallout. I mean the transparency around player, the increments of movement, animation rate, etc...
I'm especially looking forward to this now. Not only are they keeping the old style of play which most people hated fallout 3 for abandoning. They are improving on it and making it a true mmo experience. I know this game uses Fallout 2 as a base but the only thing I have to complain about (keep in mind this is just me nitpicking and its not really nessicary) but maybe graphic update (even a small one) if possible. Otherwise them game seems to be perfect.
SmartCheetah said:
Alright, thanks for the response. Can't wait to try this out. Looking reeeeal nice!
ZXL09 said:
The closest thing to that which was attempted was using and recolouring some of the old Tactics groundart. So you'd see more than that open cardboard box, and that weird medical backpack. Jet on the ground looked like jet, stimpaks were stimpaks, and so on. Same for the guns. It was a bit hit and miss, but it was nice knowing whether it was a bb gun or a gauss rifle on the ground, particularly if it was buried under ammo boxes and all other kinds of junk.
But then Lexx said he'd quit FOnline's dev team if any new groundart was introduced, but life goes on. Not that I'm bitter.
Don't talk bullshit, Lazlo and stop fighting your stupid holy war. The "groundart" you are talking about was a shitload of ugly and unfallouty item graphics with mostly totally wrong size. Just because some where out of Fallout Tactics doesn't make it good by default. Also graphicalwise Fallout Tactics mostly sucked when it came to comparing with original fallout graphics. Beside this, you guys introduced more than just "a small update" on ground art. If I remember correctly, nearly every item was replaced by something different. Even graphics that don't needed to be changed got a hit and it just felt like "let's edit every Fallout item to make it look new and fancy!"
It was not only me who disliked it. If all others would have liked them except me, then they would be ingame now.
It was not only me who disliked it. If all others would have liked them except me, then they would be ingame now.
Thanks to everyone for your comments. I'll do my best to ignore the last few posts and concentrate myself on the crafting (PPC system).
Killing a raider for weapons, ammo or stimpaks was already discussed, I think in the dev#1 video thread. Farming the encounters will be pretty much reduced soon (WIP, I hope we'll make it till OBT3).
You probably think about starting the game. Normally, when starting the game with a new character, you'll buy a knife, because it's very cheap and can be found everywhere (traders). Crafting it is just an additional option, e.g. if you stumble upon a flint and have metal parts in your inventory already or, another example, if your friend needs a knife and you are too far from the city to buy it (but you have the stuff needed for crafting). Also, buying metal parts from other players or NPCs is an option - the flint itself is really not an issue, because it will be laying around, scattered on maps.Lazlo said:
But if you're really into crafting, you can make it with 2nd level already by putting a few skillpoints on the right skils, even with 5-6 IN. I'm not sure what your point is, probably the starting difficulties again. Look at my previous answer.Lazlo said:
Let's be honest, none of us can know this for sure, the system has to be tested yet. Massively tested. We never claimed it won't be changed, adjusted or totally scraped out.Lazlo said:
You don't have to. Take a look at my first two answers.Lazlo said:
They can. For a spear you need 40% melee skill, which any average John Doe already has on the game start. I'm still not sure about your point thus far.Lazlo said:
Sure! But then you are no crafting, but a combat character.Lazlo said:
I think you got the whole concept wrong, sorry. Keep in mind we're having a MMO RPG game here. It is, after all a ROLE playing game. Specialising in crafting means sacrificing your other abilities and vice versa. Combat characters will be able to craft some basic things, but they will be the best bet in combat. If someone wants to play a raider and raid towns, I won't allow him to have additional crafting abilities and hoard tons of good ammo before the next raid. He will have to steal it, kill for it, extort it, whatever. You might say the crafters may become an easy prey for combat characters then, but we already have more mechanisms which can resolve this - but it's another (and quite long) story right now.Lazlo said:
Killing a raider for weapons, ammo or stimpaks was already discussed, I think in the dev#1 video thread. Farming the encounters will be pretty much reduced soon (WIP, I hope we'll make it till OBT3).
lisac2k said:
Does this mean that some objects, like a flint, will respawn randomly over and over again in the world? Did I got this right? Does this include only random encounters or towns too? What other things could be expect to respawn in the world?
edit: typos
At the moment it includes random encounters and town maps. I am not sure if we will delet this from town maps or not, etc. We will see. But finding a flint in a random encounter shall be really no problem.
About this craft'n'resources system.... I think it should be, well: annoying. Why? If crafting and gathering resources (vide getting ore from rock with just 1 slam of hammer) would be easy and quick, we'll be facing such outcome: prices of manufactured goods in free market will be much less than in stores (kind of deflation) and crafters will be financial demi-gods, leaving combat characters far behind them. And there will be problem of available ammount of currency... Well, it's economic issue, you guys should find someone with economy degree to help you xD After all, he can do a science work about "virtual economy".
Shops with commodities provided by game engine/game masters and free market of items, crafted by players reminds me of modern euro-socialism: It require immense ammount of beurocracy and control. It's extremely fragile economic system that will be often exploited without proper control. No crafting or no npc shops (supplied by engine/gm) will be much less complicated. Having it both ways will be tough...
(sorry for my bad english)
Shops with commodities provided by game engine/game masters and free market of items, crafted by players reminds me of modern euro-socialism: It require immense ammount of beurocracy and control. It's extremely fragile economic system that will be often exploited without proper control. No crafting or no npc shops (supplied by engine/gm) will be much less complicated. Having it both ways will be tough...
(sorry for my bad english)
You can't go to a rock and click 10 times in 20 seconds on it to get 10 rocks. There is a cooldown timer.
Also you shouldn't start to get your opinion about the system until you have really played it.
Also you shouldn't start to get your opinion about the system until you have really played it.
Mayck
First time out of the vault
I think you guys are doing great job, let's hope it will work. I have a few questions:
1) Are there any explosives/traps which do more damge than C4s in Fallout 2? I think it's a bit tricky to have to use 3 or 4 C4s to take out one guy in combat armor (even with demolition expert perk).
2) Since the combat is real-time, is there any use for combat sequence and (my favourite) Kamikaze trait?
3) What about drug abuse, does it work same way as in fallout2? (I mean, first few hours positive effects, then few hours negative effects, and if addicted then week of withdrawal symptoms.) If so, what prevents me from doping buffout into someone's character against his will and thus making his next few days of playing full of pain.
(btw sorry, if my english is bad)
1) Are there any explosives/traps which do more damge than C4s in Fallout 2? I think it's a bit tricky to have to use 3 or 4 C4s to take out one guy in combat armor (even with demolition expert perk).
2) Since the combat is real-time, is there any use for combat sequence and (my favourite) Kamikaze trait?
3) What about drug abuse, does it work same way as in fallout2? (I mean, first few hours positive effects, then few hours negative effects, and if addicted then week of withdrawal symptoms.) If so, what prevents me from doping buffout into someone's character against his will and thus making his next few days of playing full of pain.
(btw sorry, if my english is bad)
SmartCheetah
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Mayck said:
As a professional suicide bomber (Certified by Allah) I can tell you that with only one TNT there was a big possibility to kill even PA armored guy (OBT2)
I think damage wasn't lowered that much
Guys told me that drugs will have a major revamp. You'll no longer die from it after some time x3
Edit: Forget my last post. It wasn't helpful. Just whiney. It's under spoiler tags if you want to read it.
Here's how you improve the crafting system.
Remove the emphasis on Science, particularly for small guns. For energy weapons, it's justified. Don't make someone have to get a physics degree to craft 10mm, they'll just buy it instead. Keep the focus on repair, it'll mean that a whole lot more people will craft. Even for stuff like 14mm, just make it so it requires a whole lot of repair skill.
Edit: Better yet, make it so crafting requires science -or- repair. Hell, repair is called 'The practical application of the science skill'. That way science doesn't become useless, but people don't have to spend two tag skills in order to build anything.
Make the basic 'building blocks' buildable by everyone, but make it so weapon construction requires a decent skill investment. It seems odd that I can easily craft a 10mm pistol at a low level, but not the things I craft the pistol with. This way, there's logical progression and characters have something to shoot for. It's more intuitive. Basic ingredients first, like metal parts alloys and gunpowder, then you build more advanced things with these ingredients. Once I'm capable of building all the basics, I can also build a pistol. Then a shotgun. Then a rifle. At the moment, it seems kind of backwards. More logical progression according to your skill would be better. That way people can also be self sufficient when they craft, as they can't build anything useful until they can build the basics.
Scrap the mining system. Replace it with junk. The mining system is too complicated, time consuming, and not intuitive. In its current state, I'd bet a .223 pistol that there will be people running around several months into the open beta, who've been there since the beginning, that have no idea how to get ore. Even if there is a manual. Metal parts, alloys, gunpowder are all manufacturable by junk. I know it sounds absurd, but it's simpler and it puts the focus back on the character's abilities, not how long he bashed rocks with a hammer.
Get rid of alloys, make it so the guns themselves have high skill requirements with metal parts. Having to craft two different items out of the same raw material for one weapon is a waste of time. If you don't want players to be able to manufacture pistols at level 1, make it so they're too unskilled to build the pistol itself, not the things to make the pistol with.
[spoiler:d569fe7bff]
When I talk about the complexity of the system, I'm talking about how much activity is required proportional to what I gain. If I want to build shotgun shells, I need to mine five pieces of minerals and three pieces of iron ore. I've then got to find a workbench to craft them into alloys, metal parts and gunpowder. Then, if I'm a crafter or I've just invested the 60 skill points necessary in repair/science, I can build 20 shotgun shells. Or I could've just bought them, and spent that time earning money, through a means that isn't killing raiders.
Even if the recipes change, the basic tenets remain the same. Go into the wastes, bash rocks with a sledgehammer, build things and use them to build other things. The wastes are dangerous, and walking there and back into town is going to get you killed a couple times. Resources and equipment are lost too easily in the wasteland for people to be prepared to invest that much time in something that's available a lot quicker and faster through other means.
It doesn't matter that I can buy some of those resources, if the system works I shouldn't have to. The second a crafting system isn't about crafting but just purchasing ingredients it ceases to have a point.
It seems to me that what'll actually be common is a crafting alt. I realise crafting is only meant to be one way of getting resources, but I really do believe it won't be useful. I also believe it should require effort, and not everyone should be able to build anything. But most people should be able to build -something-. Don't say to half your players 'This isn't for you, you're a combat character, this is for crafters'. Even if I can build metal parts, what do I do about alloys, or gunpowder? They require science, which is something I figure is way to important in your crafting system. I realise you wanted to make science useful, but having to be reasonably skilled in two things a lot of people won't have tagged means they're inevitably going to be cut off. Even for 10mm ammunition, a substantial investment is required in three skills - if I haven't tagged science and repair that means it'll cost me forty skill points. And that's providing I don't have to build all the materials. If I'm trying to build 10mm ammo all by myself, it'll cost me seventy skill points. If I haven't tagged science and repair, I simply won't bother.
I'd like you to try something. If crafting and combat characters are totally separate, then create a level 1 character with no combat skills and try to craft yourself up a few levels. Equip yourself only with what you create, and play alone and with no admin shenanigans. If the system is good enough, even though it's an MMO, you should be able to survive. The system should be enhanced by other people's assistance, it shouldn't be totally dependent on them.[/spoiler:d569fe7bff]
Here's how you improve the crafting system.
Remove the emphasis on Science, particularly for small guns. For energy weapons, it's justified. Don't make someone have to get a physics degree to craft 10mm, they'll just buy it instead. Keep the focus on repair, it'll mean that a whole lot more people will craft. Even for stuff like 14mm, just make it so it requires a whole lot of repair skill.
Edit: Better yet, make it so crafting requires science -or- repair. Hell, repair is called 'The practical application of the science skill'. That way science doesn't become useless, but people don't have to spend two tag skills in order to build anything.
Make the basic 'building blocks' buildable by everyone, but make it so weapon construction requires a decent skill investment. It seems odd that I can easily craft a 10mm pistol at a low level, but not the things I craft the pistol with. This way, there's logical progression and characters have something to shoot for. It's more intuitive. Basic ingredients first, like metal parts alloys and gunpowder, then you build more advanced things with these ingredients. Once I'm capable of building all the basics, I can also build a pistol. Then a shotgun. Then a rifle. At the moment, it seems kind of backwards. More logical progression according to your skill would be better. That way people can also be self sufficient when they craft, as they can't build anything useful until they can build the basics.
Scrap the mining system. Replace it with junk. The mining system is too complicated, time consuming, and not intuitive. In its current state, I'd bet a .223 pistol that there will be people running around several months into the open beta, who've been there since the beginning, that have no idea how to get ore. Even if there is a manual. Metal parts, alloys, gunpowder are all manufacturable by junk. I know it sounds absurd, but it's simpler and it puts the focus back on the character's abilities, not how long he bashed rocks with a hammer.
Get rid of alloys, make it so the guns themselves have high skill requirements with metal parts. Having to craft two different items out of the same raw material for one weapon is a waste of time. If you don't want players to be able to manufacture pistols at level 1, make it so they're too unskilled to build the pistol itself, not the things to make the pistol with.
[spoiler:d569fe7bff]
lisac2k said:
When I talk about the complexity of the system, I'm talking about how much activity is required proportional to what I gain. If I want to build shotgun shells, I need to mine five pieces of minerals and three pieces of iron ore. I've then got to find a workbench to craft them into alloys, metal parts and gunpowder. Then, if I'm a crafter or I've just invested the 60 skill points necessary in repair/science, I can build 20 shotgun shells. Or I could've just bought them, and spent that time earning money, through a means that isn't killing raiders.
Even if the recipes change, the basic tenets remain the same. Go into the wastes, bash rocks with a sledgehammer, build things and use them to build other things. The wastes are dangerous, and walking there and back into town is going to get you killed a couple times. Resources and equipment are lost too easily in the wasteland for people to be prepared to invest that much time in something that's available a lot quicker and faster through other means.
It doesn't matter that I can buy some of those resources, if the system works I shouldn't have to. The second a crafting system isn't about crafting but just purchasing ingredients it ceases to have a point.
It seems to me that what'll actually be common is a crafting alt. I realise crafting is only meant to be one way of getting resources, but I really do believe it won't be useful. I also believe it should require effort, and not everyone should be able to build anything. But most people should be able to build -something-. Don't say to half your players 'This isn't for you, you're a combat character, this is for crafters'. Even if I can build metal parts, what do I do about alloys, or gunpowder? They require science, which is something I figure is way to important in your crafting system. I realise you wanted to make science useful, but having to be reasonably skilled in two things a lot of people won't have tagged means they're inevitably going to be cut off. Even for 10mm ammunition, a substantial investment is required in three skills - if I haven't tagged science and repair that means it'll cost me forty skill points. And that's providing I don't have to build all the materials. If I'm trying to build 10mm ammo all by myself, it'll cost me seventy skill points. If I haven't tagged science and repair, I simply won't bother.
I'd like you to try something. If crafting and combat characters are totally separate, then create a level 1 character with no combat skills and try to craft yourself up a few levels. Equip yourself only with what you create, and play alone and with no admin shenanigans. If the system is good enough, even though it's an MMO, you should be able to survive. The system should be enhanced by other people's assistance, it shouldn't be totally dependent on them.[/spoiler:d569fe7bff]