Frigid Wrath!

Global warming my ass! It's now fucking freezing here!

I can't wait for global warming to really kick in, as I live in the middle of North America, away from any coast or risk of natural disaster.
 
calculon00 said:
I can't wait for global warming to really kick in, as I live in the middle of North America, away from any coast or risk of natural disaster.
Yeah, massive ecological disasters and ensuing worldwide famines are always a blast.
 
The best thing about global warming is that the melting of the icecaps would mean THE END for Dutchieland... Heh heh he.

Of course, Belgium would be pretty much gone too - but that's a price I think every true-blooded Belgian is willing to pay.
 
Baboon is 100% right. Belgians and Dutch are ethnically, culturally, linguistically and historically one and the same people.
 
Ratty said:
Baboon is 100% right. Belgians and Dutch are ethnically, culturally, linguistically and historically one and the same people.

WHOA!

That's SO not true.

Really.

Linguistically there may be similarities, but that's about it.
 
For once I agree not entirely wholeheartedly, though. But still: Dutch>> Belgians, hence we're not the same people.

Although there are some idiots who want to create a unified Netherlands-Flanders and call it 'Dietsland'. Weirdos.
 
Titsland? Yes please!

I knew the Flemlings were already having trouble with the Wallons, now they have "ethnical" disagreements with the Dutchlings too? This whole "oh boohoo I want my own country" thing is ridiculous, it all ends up being the same. Not really worth struggling for. Now if they were oppressed, it would've been a different thing.
 
This is amazing. Someone finally posts on topic and its Baboon no less! Thanks man.

Come on people Global warming means a shift in weather patterns that will lead to a slightly higher average temp. overall. Some places will get colder or hotter. So tell me if you area's have drastically different weather this year. The only one's who have answered have pretty much agreed that things out of the ordinary are taking place.

Sorry to be so serious.

Oh and if the Netherlands went under that would suck. The girls there look hot!

Seriously,
The Vault Dweller
 
Ratty said:
Jebus said:
WHOA!

That's SO not true.

Really.
When you confront my statements with such strong argumentation, I can do nothing but conceed the point to you. :wink:


Well... I wouldn't know where to start. While it's true that the Dutch and the Flemish both come from the same distant Germanic forefathers - that doesn't really make us ethnically closely related. Not any more than with Germans, really.

Historically, Belgium and the Netherlands spent very little time together. A little in the time of Charlemagne - but then you can't really call that a 'state', can you. A generation or two, three when the Flemish counts and the Bourgondian dukes conquered/annexed the Dutch, but that wasn't really a 'voluntary' union; and it never really evolved to a cordial one. The provinces of the Low Countries usually wanted different things, and wanted to go their own ways, and it was not until Charles V created the Estates General as a body that represents the entire Low Countries that there was a shimmer of cooperation between them. Still, as fragile as the bond between the Southern Netherlands and the Northern then were, they drifted miles apart when the Dutch revolts began and Belgium remained Spanish. They were then also briefly joint together after the Congress of Vienna - but the rulers of the Great Powers made the huge mistake of actually giving the barbaric Dutch the leardership over the Flemish, and it took only 13 years for the Flemish to start rebelling against the cruel and bloody oppression the Dutch enacted on us.
And don't even think about 'culturally' - while in this day and age cultural boundaries between all European states are actually virtually non-existent, in past times the difference really was there. The main difference was, of course, that the Flemish always remained Catholic, while the Dutch turned Protestant; and that really made it's difference in Early Modern times. And in medieval times, the Dutch were basically peasants while Flanders had rich and powerful merchant cities - so huge differences are to be found there also.

Meh, I might be overstating and oversimplifying the point a bit, but saying the Dutch and Flemish are the same really isn't correct. While a united Benelux in this day and age might be a possibility - not 'Dietsland', but also containing Wallonia and Luxembourg - that's only because cultural and sociological differences between Western countries nowadays are so minor they can be ignored anyway.

And forgive me for the incoherentness - it's been a long day.
 
Also, here's a little history I wrote ages ago on the Dutch-Flemish tensions in a thread on a different forum:

As most of you have probably already noticed, on this forum even, Flemish (the Dutch-speaking Belgians) and Dutch people don't get along too well. And I can imagine that a lot of the members here (especially non-European) may wonder why that is. Now, since I'm Flemish myself, I kinda feel obligated to tell you people of the history behind the feuds between Flanders and Holland.


It all started back in the stone age. In the marches that were then Flanders and Holland, you had two mayor spiecies: The Homo Sapiens Sapiens Sapiens Sapiens Sapiens Flandrensis and The Homo Sub-Sapiens Hollandensis. For centuries, they had lived side by side, in a relatively peacefull matter. But when the Homo Sapiens Sapiens (etc.) Flandrensis invented fire, the wheel, agriculture, etc. etc. the Homo Hollandensis started to become jealous. They came out of their stinky caves, grabbed all sorts of branches they could find, all grouped together, and marched towards Flanders; detirmined to raze it to the ground.

History is not too sure what happened then though, but is rumoured that the Chief of the Homo Flandrensis tribes bought off the attack with some pencils and a piece of cheese. But, since the Homo Hollandensis had an inherent treacherous nature, and they didn't like the taste of the pencils, they amassed their armies again about two weeks later and headed out to Flanders.

This time though, the Homo Flandrensisses didn't buy off the attack, but met them head on. After about four minutes, the battle was over. The Chief of the Homo Hollandensis put his little 'X' under a peace treaty, and the Homo Hollandensis headed back to Holland. Nothing was heard of them for thousands of years.


Then, in the year 75 AD, a Flemish explorer by the name of Janus-Marinus Vanockerzeelius headed out North, to see if he could find any more suitable land for the thriving Flemish population. There, he found a spiecies of man that quite puzzled all antropologists of that period. Because of their looks, they were first thought to be Neanderthals. But, after the Flemish scientists had done some research, they were proven to be the long-lost spiecies Homo Sub-Sapiens Hollandensis. Because the people of Flanders kinda felt sorry for them, seeing they still lived in caves and such, they decided to teach them civilisation.

This, though, proved to be a quite difficult task. Their entire language, for exampe, appeared to exist out of only three words: 'Cheese', 'Oranje' and 'Edgar Davids'. They had also, being completely isolated from any other civilisation, adapted the stranges behaviour. They for example weared the strangest footwear, which was actually nothing but a piece of wood carved into a shoe, something they called a 'Klomp'...

But, after tremendous effort and a whole lot of time, the Dutch finally reached a level of civilisation that was somewhat comparable to the rest of Europe. This was around the year 1946 AD. By this time, the Flemish were so fed up with the Dutch, all the Flemish missionairies returned to Flanders, and the people of Flanders decided it was time the Dutch learned how to take care of themselves.

This may have been a premature decision, though. About 5 days after all the Flemish left Holland, the land was in turmoil. Apparently, the entire country was torched down after a footballmatch between Belgium and Holland, when the Dutch fans just couldn't cope with the fact they lost.

Flanders wasn't able to help the Dutch people though. Belgium had been all but destroyed by the German troops, and there were just no funds available to give to Holland. The Dutch were very angry with this, and then decided they maybe should all just move to Flanders.

The Flemish, being the inherently nice people they are, allowed this. Even though the exaggerated pot-smoking and prostitution the Dutch brought with them added an unpleasant element to the streets of Flanders, they were allowed to live in shacks around the Flemish cities.

And their they remained, up till about 1975, when Flanders finally had enough money put aside to rebuild Holland. They gave it to the Chief of the Dutch, some freaky lookin' woman with a medieval haircut, and deported them all back to Holland.

After about two weeks, the Chief of the Dutch people came to visit the Belgian king. She explained that the Dutch had wasted all the money on beer, whores and pot, and she asked for another loan.


But then, finally, the king had enough. He kicked the Chief out of his palace, and told her Flanders had already given enough money. Enraged, she returned to Holland.

Holland then started to ask the other countries in the world for help. A big concert was staged, called 'Farm Aid', to help gather funds for Holland. The Flemish people, out of the goodness of their harts, added another hefty sum to that, and Holland was rebuilt.

Thing would never be the same again, though. Up till today, the Dutch still carry hatred in their harts for the footballmatch they lost back in 1946, and every other match they had lost against Belgium (being almost every singe one).
And even though the countries officially get along just fine, and Belgium still has a developement project running in Holland, a lot of tensions exist between the two nations.

One can only hope things will ever change. But, unfortunately, as long as the Belgian team keeps on kicking the Dutch's butt, it will probably remain the same...



*EDIT* Link removed, because I my sense of humour was so different then it's kinda embarassing now.
 
One can only hope things will ever change. But, unfortunately, as long as the Belgian team keeps on kicking the Dutch's butt, it will probably remain
That guy needs some football history lessons, and pay some attention to football now. ;)

Oh, and Jebus, don't be so dramatic:
They were then also briefly joint together after the Congress of Vienna - but the rulers of the Great Powers made the huge mistake of actually giving the barbaric Dutch the leardership over the Flemish, and it took only 13 years for the Flemish to start rebelling against the cruel and bloody oppression the Dutch enacted on us.
Pft. Those are overstatements of immense proportions.

EDIT: As for the topic, the winter is extremely warm right now. 10 degrees Cesius, where it used to be around 0.
 
Sander said:

That guy is me :wink:

Oh, and Jebus, don't be so dramatic:
They were then also briefly joint together after the Congress of Vienna - but the rulers of the Great Powers made the huge mistake of actually giving the barbaric Dutch the leardership over the Flemish, and it took only 13 years for the Flemish to start rebelling against the cruel and bloody oppression the Dutch enacted on us.
Pft. Those are overstatements of immense proportions.

I know that... Where's the sense of irony?
Basically, the Flemish rebelled because the Dutch king wanted to centralise power in Amsterdam, and made economic reforms that benifited only the Dutch. That, and the fact that an opera called 'The Mute of Portici' played in 1830 apparently inflamed Belgian patriottic feeling enough to start a rebellion.

Also, a little trivia - recently, I found out that Belgium actually owes much of the fact that it's an independant nation to Poles. Ironic, isn't it?
At the Council of Vienna, the Great Powers agreed that they would fight rebels in each European country. So when the Belgians rebelled, foreign armies were mobilised. Most of the Great Powers couldn't actually respond because of internal in international difficulties, though, but the Russian Tsar Alexander sent its army to Belgium. When he passed through Poland, though, the Poles chose just that time to start rebelling against the fact that Alexander was also the Polish king, and Poland was thus practically annexed to Russia. So he had to stay there and quell the Polish rebellion, and by the time he was done with that it was already too late to still march on Belgium.

So there you go. Who would've thought the Poles would've been good for something?


*EDIT* I really don't know what's wrong with me. It's probably that I've spent way too much time studying and way too little drinking and getting laid, lately.
 
I only know what Victoria has taught me. Namely that Belgium kicked Holland's ass at the beginning of the game (1820ish) and never looked back.

I think Sander and Jebus should just whip it out right now and measure, and stop derailing this thread.
 
Murdoch said:
Belgium kicked Holland's ass


That's what we've been doing since the Dark Ages.

Until those vile, treacherous Dutch started blockading the Schelde, of course. That's what, in the end, made the Dutch rich and the Flemish relatively poor up 'till the industrial revolution.
 
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