GamingExcellence previews Fallout 3

[Mungrul]

Regarding audio, it's one of my major conundrums with Fallout 3.
I really like Mark Lampert from the few interviews I've seen with him; he's a down-to-earth, genuine kinda guy.
And yet, the end result in Bethesda games is always rather disappointing.
He's the dev I like criticizing the least, but his product is the most easily criticised.

 

[Wazza]

Heh, speaking of reviews - am waiting to see what zeropunctuation comes up with once he gets hold of this game

 

[hakunin]

I'd be lying if I didn't say that at some point, I was one of them.

He's lying by saying it. If he didn't say that at some point he was one of them, he would have had been quiet, meaning that he wouldn't have lied. You can't lie by saying nothing. What a ninny. (need more binge drinking)

 

[pyrock]

So I started a game in Fallout 1 today and I realized critical hits = IGNORE ARMOR. That's SHIT game design, they better not include this in Fallout 3. Example: With the best armor in the game super mutants will either do no damage or 188004. Combat balance was never Fallout's strong point eh?

 

[Brother None]

So I started a game in Fallout 1 today and I realized critical hits = IGNORE ARMOR.

Incorrect. Critical hits have a chance to ignore armor, and only for shots to the eyes or groin (frequent) or torso (rare).

 

[pyrock]

It's still pretty shitty though imo: a chance of getting raped in any scenario

 

[Brother None]

That shots to the eyes bypass armour? Because from Todd's description of the Mirelurks in one of the gameplay vids, it sounds like Fallout 3 occasionally opts to do the same.

Honestly, you think it's odd that shooting someone in the eye bypasses his armour? The powered armors are the only armors that even have any protection there.

 

[pyrock]

I'm just not a fan of realism that harms gameplay

 

[beverageleverage]

A lot of games have critical or sneak type attacks that have a chance to ignore armor, always bypass armor, or ignore a percentage of armor. Not sure how that harms gameplay, if anything it makes combat less safe and predictable.

 

[Jabu]

I'm just not a fan of realism that harms gameplay

In the originals the vulnerability of the eyes was compensated (maybe not fully) by them being very hard to hit. In "3" you don't even have the option to shoot at the eyes.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

I'm just not a fan of realism that harms gameplay

All body armor has weak points and the eye and groin areas are usually the weakest parts of armor, if there is even any armor there at all. As for the torso, the armpit is always poorly protected so it would be a weak point (though power armor does cover it up better than most types of armor).

 

[Black]

It's still pretty shitty though imo: a chance of getting raped in any scenario

I actually like that, it's another element of older games that games nowadays are missing, the fact that you can be raped at any time.
For some reason devs today are afraid that people who play their games will fail and their character die. Oh shit, who has ever heard of saving games, right?

Nothing like going to the oil rig at lvl 66 only to get raped for 500+ damage by a goddamn scent tree. You know, things like that actually make the world seem more dangerous and make you want to avoid trouble if you can.

 

[Brother None]

All body armor has weak points and the eye and groin areas are usually the weakest parts of armor, if there is even any armor there at all.

I don't think the groin is about being less protected than the rest of the body, I think it's about...uhm...exacerbated impact damage. If you know what I mean.

 

[oihrebwe]

I'm just not a fan of realism that harms gameplay

All body armor has weak points and the eye and groin areas are usually the weakest parts of armor,

on the other hand sometimes it isn't

 

[Xenophile]

On the minigames....

This time I think they did a great job with them. They actually are a pretty close analogy to the activities that they are based on. At least in presentation.

Even in Bioshock.. I enjoyed the hacking minigame. Maybe most of you don't like the minigames, but I think alot of people like them.

One thing I did think that they should have done is provide a way to bypass the minigames like bioshock had. It might cost you an item that you would have to keep in your inventory of something. I usually played all the hacking puzzles in bioshock, but every once in a while I would "pay" to bypass it.

Other than that, like I said above, I like the presentation of the mini-games (from character perspective) and the mechanics of them. Sorry if other won't enjoy them.

I do wonder if the hacking minigame presentation or gameplay changes when you get lockpicks, etc.

 

[Brother None]

This time I think they did a great job with them. They actually are a pretty close analogy to the activities that they are based on. At least in presentation.

Even in Bioshock.. I enjoyed the hacking minigame. Maybe most of you don't like the minigames, but I think alot of people like them.

What? If your analysis of minigames is based on close analogy to activities they are based on, why would you like BioShock? What does plumbing have to do with hacking?

One thing I did think that they should have done is provide a way to bypass the minigames like bioshock had.

Lockpicking had an auto-attempt in Oblivion that was doable if your skill was high enough. Considering how f'ing annoying the lockpicking minigame was that was a good thing. Perhaps Fallout has the same.

 

[ushdugery]

Minigames are only so damn prevalent because of casual gaming become huge and the hardcore crowd become a small part of the market it's a clever trick to make us forget the days of yore when the game stood up by getting us hooked on finding our way to the next peggle hacking rpg that's real choice and consequence that peggle shit is like crack for middle aged women, don't do peggle kids it'll fuck you up, don't do minigames for that matter either.

 

[grapedog]

Audio cues. Bloody mess. BoS armor.

Typical misconception of "this is Fallout"

Dialogue? Quest structure? Choice and consequence? Dark ironic humour?

If we took your four examples, we could be playing Planescape:Torment too...

Fallout had those four things, but it also had it's own very unique setting, which I would argue was just as important if not more important for the game. The Brotherhood, the dismemberment, the audio cues were a part of the original game, and three items that made it stand out from other RPG's, just as much as it's dialogue, humor and quests.

If I showed you a dialogue tree, without any spoilers, it could be from any number of games. If I started playing some of the sound effects, audio cues...you'd think Fallout immediately. As much as anything else, the setting has to be there to connect the players to the world, at least the people who remember/played the original games.

 

[Brother None]

Fallout had those four things, but it also had it's own very unique setting, which I would argue was just as important if not more important for the game. The Brotherhood, the dismemberment, the audio cues were a part of the original game, and three items that made it stand out from other RPG's, just as much as it's dialogue, humor and quests.

Yes.

And no.

Fallout is the sum of its parts (or more than that) and obviously that sum includes everything from heretoforth and back, from its pen and paper heritage to its specific style of retro-50s. Cut out the pen and paper and you're left without Fallout (Fallout 3). Cut out the setting and it's not Fallout anymore either (Arcanum).

But the things this previewer sums up are fairly minor. The BoS? It's been lazily slapped into several spin-offs now but it's not integral of Fallout at all (why would a faction by integral of a game). Dismemberment? Fairly integral, true. Audio cues? Flippin' audio cues? Who gives a flying fuck?

Are you actually arguing those things are equally important to preserving Fallout's standard on dialogue, choice 'n consequence, dark ironic retro-50s or overall pen-and-paper heritage? I'm not saying Fallout can be summed up in half-a-dozen bullet points like that, but pretending that the bullet points the previewer chose makes sense is just backasswards.

 

[grapedog]

Yes.

And no.

Fallout is the sum of its parts (or more than that) and obviously that sum includes everything from heretoforth and back, from its pen and paper heritage to its specific style of retro-50s. Cut out the pen and paper and you're left without Fallout (Fallout 3). Cut out the setting and it's not Fallout anymore either (Arcanum).

But the things this previewer sums up are fairly minor. The BoS? It's been lazily slapped into several spin-offs now but it's not integral of Fallout at all (why would a faction by integral of a game). Dismemberment? Fairly integral, true. Audio cues? Flippin' audio cues? Who gives a flying fuck?

Are you actually arguing those things are equally important to preserving Fallout's standard on dialogue, choice 'n consequence, dark ironic retro-50s or overall pen-and-paper heritage? I'm not saying Fallout can be summed up in half-a-dozen bullet points like that, but pretending that the bullet points the previewer chose makes sense is just backasswards.

You laugh at audio cues, but subconsciously sounds link us to experiences. While the new Star Wars movies might have sucked, when you hear that opening theme song you get the shivers right(I'm hoping you are a Star Wars fan)? Or Indiana Jones, Superman...hell, even the Jaws "about to die" sound effects. Subconsciously you hear those sounds, and it feels comfortable. When the little end turn box opens or closes, the sound of Ians SMG tearing you apart, you remember those little sounds, they connect you to the game.

Yeah, as one of three examples of things to get excited about, Audio Cues were not in my top 10...but I can understand why the sound effects might make him feel like he was putting on his favorite pair of comfortable old shoes.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I can't find fault in SOME of the things that he says helped him connect this game with the older games. I'm in your boat, I'm going to be looking long and hard at the actual meat of the game too. But if those things are missing, the little things that may not rate on anyone's top 10 of most important features list, it will feel a little less like fallout and a little more like a generic PA game.