GDC panel; the viability of PC gaming

[SkynetV4]

I started smelling a big mutated rodent back when Blizzard wanted to release their new Starcraft game for a console. A console release...for a game that developed a cult following on the PC.

Don't listen to John Romero, that guy is still sulking because the binary shitburgers he cooked (Daikatana and an RTS game whose name escapes ATM) were shunned. Sorry Johnny, aside from Tycho and Gabe, no one is going to keep kissing your ass.

The graphic cards race is so similar to the Cold War's arm race that isn't funny anymore. You can fork out half a grand for hardware that will be superceded in less than a year. Developers need to get into their heads than most gamers don't fork out 10K for Dell XPS 710 or Falcontech Systems. On this note, I find ridiculous that developers release games that are so flawed and whose engine is so inefficient that it won't run at acceptable speeds on any existent rig (Oblivion, I define acceptable speeds at 60 frames per second but some people claim they can see difference at higher framerates so your mileage may vary).

 

[radnan]

apropo blizzard - they seem to be the only ones with common sense about (which would lead me to conclude that the reason for this madness lies with the publishers - who close deals with hardware manufacturers, hurry games out, want to sell and dont know what theyre doing when asking for changes to games- since blizzard doesnt have a publisher)

there has yet to be a blizzard game released that doesnt work on 90% of the gaming markets machines or more at the moment it comes out ... the art direction and game concepts (allthough getting boring) are solid and polished.

 

[Rainstorm]

EDIT: Also, some of you are treading very near the Warez talk line. Don't. Rainstorm, I'm looking at you.

Sorry about that,the reason was the "that would buy a $600 video card knows how Bittorrent works." part inte the original text....I'll go back and edit it out.(so I don't inspire anyone)

Read my whole post I said I don't use credit cards, kind of hard to online shop without them.

You can't buy with invoice,so that you pay later on,when you have the game?
That was what I meant with the "you'll -if they allow it- even have it delivered to your door,so you can pay later on" part.(or is that very unusual in the UK?)

But the point of my post is that it's a lot easier to buy console games as they are everywhere while PC games, at least those not in the charts i.e the more original and innovative games from smaller developers, can only usually be found in specialist shops or online. But even the specialist shops and several online store are mored geared to selling console games these days.

Yes,I got your point,was just trying to state that there are ways to get games without using a CC...but maybe that's very uncommon elsewhere...

 

[Dracon M'Alkir]

I believe that the PC Gaming industry is slowly taking a hike upwards back to goodness once again, but very slowly.

The first two good titles this year that I've played are Supreme Commander and Commander and Conquer 3.

If this is a sign of things to come, then perhaps the future is not too bleak.

Spore also looked really good from the trailers back in 2005.

Who knows, all we can do is hold on and hope that things get better. 8)

(I know how much optimism is hated in these boards, so yeah - I think that the oncoming flaming is deserved)

 

[radnan]

i dont like how publishers behave lately and THQ is no exception to the rusher genre but they as of late THQ have supported a lot of quality titles which didnt dissapoint ... i think .. like Supreme Commander etc.

 

[The Vault Dweller]

I believe that the PC Gaming industry is slowly taking a hike upwards back to goodness once again, but very slowly.

The first two good titles this year that I've played are Supreme Commander and Commander and Conquer 3.

If this is a sign of things to come, then perhaps the future is not too bleak.

Spore also looked really good from the trailers back in 2005.

Who knows, all we can do is hold on and hope that things get better. 8)

(I know how much optimism is hated in these boards, so yeah - I think that the oncoming flaming is deserved)

You've captured my recent sentiments exactly as I was thinking them. Good to see I'm not crazy in feeling a little optimistic and noticing that there are more than a few great games coming out that are indeed true to their series and good fan-involvement.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

 

[Brother None]

I believe that the PC Gaming industry is slowly taking a hike upwards back to goodness once again, but very slowly.

I played Avernum 4 and BookWorm Adventures last year, both pretty good

OHWAITNOTMAINSTREAM

If you think the PC Gaming Industry is going "back" (bullshit) to "quality" (unquantifiable), you need...I'm not sure what you need.

(sorry to interrupt the circle jerk here, guys, but it's going around in circles too much)

It is inherent of any industry that it does not produce pieces of arts. Remember that. Industry and art are anemic.

Gaming industry is an industry. The 17th century painting schools in Holland were an industry. The production of both is/was (hard to speak over two timelines) an industry which would churn out average upon average work. Art? Art is bullshit. There's only industry.

I mean, you all have *brilliant* ideas of "they need to stop making crappy games", which is, I'm sure, something that has *never* occured to *any* game producer out there, but if there's anything that makes an industry crash and burn faster than Apollo 13, it's a philosophy that it needs to produce for a specific niche market.

That's not what industries do, that's what specialists do. Antique dealers, painting masters, master carpenters, indie game developers, doesn't matter, this isn't the age in which gild rules could dominate an economy, and a specialisation industry, to heavily misuse two terms, does not work. Not in film, not in music, not in games, not anywhere, not ever.

To be all South Park poldermodelish, you're wrong for the right reasons, they're right for the wrong reasons, or not, whatever...

People know my personal feelings about piracy. My personal feelings aside, I'm going to find it hard to believe any industry could generate the amount of interest to have its theft reach a critical point of destroying the industry. Equally, I think people that pretend that an enormous unchecked amount of theft as exists within games, films and music could leave the industry and its producers' attitudes uninfluenced need a bit of a reality check.

Still with me? Back to 17th century painting schools, film industry, and games.

Do I hear hints of a claim that the industry should *stop* producing what it is producing? That there is something inherently *wrong* with the product as it is produced today?

Bullshit.

Hogwash.

Codswiddle.

Balderdash!

I mean, have fun pretending the current gaming industry consists of a few guys that keep wringing their hands in delight over our anguish while producing games that are total shit which people only play out of desperation. Keep pretending piracy is no problem whatsoever, shove it away, no worries, it has nothing to do with it.

As for the real world, well...the gaming industry is a fatally immature industry. Hinged on the basic concept that, for big companies, a few big hits are produced which have to finance the big flops. Everything is big, everything is focused, there's no need for diversification because the big hits finance the big flops.

Very unstable. You know what it reminds me off? Internet Bubble.

The *last* thing they would want to do to stop this trend is to stop producing games that people want. It's grand and all that you don't like certain recent games, but other people do, and they are valid releases. Flawed? Of course, but valid and viable hits. Are the bug and high-end computers a problem? Peripheral problems, they are.

A mature industry would finance both these blockbusters and the indie titles with good budgets. Currently, the gaming industry is in a dichotomy in which indie games fail because of low production value and big games can fatally fall on their ass because nobody is diversified. What the gaming industry *should* do about it is clear, but it has fuck-all to do with manuels, cardboard boxes, high-end computers or producing no mainstream games.

What the industry will do is another question. Piracy is helping to tie its feet so that it can crash and burn more easily. Thanks, piracy, you combine well with general economic short-sightedness to end the industry as we know it.

"Yay, the end of evil capitalist gaming producers!"

That's right, kids, but do you know what will replace it? No? Neither do I. Do you know if you'll like what'll replace it? No? Neither do I, but I seriously doubt it.

Hey.

Just sayin'

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

Apollo 13 didn't crash nor burn, n00b. Shows how much you know.

 

[radnan]

Allthough i cant agree with everything you said its a pretty valid point ... allthough i think the industry suffers from applying classic industry methods in a medium which works differently in a lot of ways ...which doesnt work extremely well with capitalism and industry since it was designed differently. thats why consoles work better .. they are industry creations.

 

[Brother None]

Apollo 13 didn't crash nor burn, n00b. Shows how much you know.

Yes. So if the industry crashes tomorrow, it'll have crashed faster than something that never crashed.

Learn English.

n00b.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

It's competition that's costing sales. From console games, from other pc games, from other media.

You can't buy with invoice,so that you pay later on,when you have the game?

Payment up front unless you've joined one of those clubs, then there would be a need for a bank account.

Yes,I got your point,was just trying to state that there are ways to get games without using a CC...but maybe that's very uncommon elsewhere...

But still doesn't beat the impulse buys from seeing something on the shelf.

 

[Briosafreak]

I agree with this guy

 

[Sorrow]

Keep pretending piracy is no problem whatsoever, shove it away, no worries, it has nothing to do with it.

I'm not pretending. I'm just saying the truth - they have more important problems than illegal copying of their games. Like losing people who actually buy games for example. In last years, my buying priorities shifted thanks to their policy - I prefer buying books, music CDs, comics, etc. because they aren't bugged, they don't force me to type stupid CD-keys, they don't install malware on my computer and don't force me to spend few hundreds dollars on hardware every year.
I used to buy a game every month - a new game that costed about 1/8 of average monthy wage in my country, now I buy a game every three months and only old titles from promotions.

They are fighting phantom threats, while they are losing a competition against many other products. Game industry doesn't exist in void - it competes against books, music, movies, hardware, restaurants, theme parks, vacations, food, etc.

Are the bug and high-end computers a problem? Peripheral problems, they are.

People stopping buying games because of them are a problem.
Also, they are supporting their competitors. Hardware industry isn't an ally of the software industry, it's its competitor.
People pay for their hardware with money that they could spend on games.

What the gaming industry *should* do about it is clear, but it has fuck-all to do with manuels, cardboard boxes, high-end computers or producing no mainstream games.

I don't recall anyone complaining on producing mainstream games in this thread.

 

[Brother None]

I'm just saying the truth - they have more important problems than illegal copying of their games.

More important never negated anything.

People stopping buying games because of them are a problem.

Yes. A peripheral problem, because it isn't the biggest leak of users.

Also, they are supporting their competitors. Hardware industry isn't an ally of the software industry, it's its competitor.
People pay for their hardware with money that they could spend on games.

Ok, seriously, that's not what the word "competition" means in this context, please don't use it as such. That's like arguing cars are competing against oil prices. Don't be redic.

I don't recall anyone complaining on producing mainstream games in this thread.

If "bad quality" refers to "Oblivion", then 1 + 1 = 2.

 

[Rainstorm]

You can't buy with invoice,so that you pay later on,when you have the game?

Payment up front unless you've joined one of those clubs, then there would be a need for a bank account.

Then it's a different matter in the UK than it is here...and I was of course talking from what I know.(which is of course why I asked in the previous post)

But still doesn't beat the impulse buys from seeing something on the shelf.

For the distributors POV I agree,for a buyer I don't....I prefer to know what I'll get when it comes to games.
I don't want to spend my hard-earned on a full-priced game just by judging its cover.

My personal feelings aside, I'm going to find it hard to believe any industry could generate the amount of interest to have its theft reach a critical point of destroying the industry. Equally, I think people that pretend that an enormous unchecked amount of theft as exists within games, films and music could leave the industry and its producers' attitudes uninfluenced need a bit of a reality check.

I agree with the above statement...what got me worked up was how they use piracy as a scapegoat,they take every stolen copy as lost revenue,when not everyone with a stolen copy is someone who would've bought the software.
I'm not stating it is correct to steal,I'm just saying that a stolen copy is not equal to one less sold unit.

In some cases a stolen copy may even sell one more unit...like I got NFS3 after "stealing" it (it was still new,so full-priced) due to the demo not showing what I wanted to know,i.e. if different cars acted differently.(the demo had two tracks and one car,so it was very unfullfilling as to answering what I wanted to know)
After buying it,I've also bought every NFS release since it,so they've made "quite a bit more" than they would if I wouldn't have gotten my hands on NFS3 as warez initially...(I even spent about 1/4'th of the games price to be able to see what it was about,which a proper demo should've shown)

 

[mortiz]

The piracy issue has little to do with the downfall of PC gaming. The issue is that you've got no one fighting the PC's corner. Microsoft used to with Windows but they're much more interested in pushing the XBox these days. They have far more control over it than they do with Windows, where any tom dick or harry with some programming skills, notepad, and a compiler can write a game. Microsoft has started with this whole XNA thing i.e. "Youtube for video-games" but at the end of the day by developing with it you’re just helping MS make more money since they're charging a subscription.

The other major companies are Sony and Nintendo, well; they've always been ones for consoles anyway. Big companies love to brand things. They love to stick "Sony" or "Microsoft" on the outer casing. With the PC being an open platform they can't really do that thus they have no real ownership over the platform. You may say “But what about Dell or Hewlett Packard?”, again they have no ownership over the platform they’re selling you; they’re just branding the case. The more you try to diversify a platform then the more open and accessible it becomes. For instance, if Microsoft had made Windows so you couldn't write your own programs for it, it wouldn't have taken off at all. Microsoft has no ownership over the PC platform and would therefore beg the question "Why can't I write my own programs for my own PC?”. Not to mention the idea of an Operating System that you can't program is an oxymoron.

Gamers aren't failing the PC, pirates aren't causing the downfall of the PC, it’s the major companies who are striving for some sort of absolute control over a platform that they simply don't get with the PC. Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo push millions upon millions of dollars into advertising their gaming machine, that completely dwarfs by orders of magnitude the amount of money being put in to advertising PC gaming. So in conclusion it has nothing to do with a platforms suitibility for gaming, and everything to do with big business of major corporations.

 

[Sander]

Part of the problem is also a lack of 'good' innovation (graphics don't count).
There's barely anything new and, by analogy, interesting being done on the PC market. 'Play it safe' is the motto of *every* PC game company out there, except for some *very* small niche companies.

Nintendo, on the other hand, proves that innovation is possible and very profitable as well. The Wii has outsold the 'safe' PS3 by huge margins.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

For the programming houses I agree,for a buyer I don't....I prefer to know what I'll get when it comes to games.
I don't want to spend my hard-earned on a full-priced game just by judging its cover.

The last four games I bought were all impulse buys, FEAR because I was bored, shopping in Tescos and it was there cheaper than in GAME or Gamestation and they had a further reduction, on all chart video games to boot. SW Battlefront, Empire at War & KOTOR2, all because SKY TV had been showing all six Star Wars movies on all month. Sure I'm a fool, FEAR has to be the most boring game I've ever played, the other three only are interesting due to their franchise.

Like Sorrow I would prefer to spend my money on books and DVDs, I won't pirate, there's just so few pc games out or coming out that interest me. Even those few that do look interesting don't tantalise me enough to motivate me to make a trip to the next town.

 

[mortiz]

The Wii is the king of the time-wasters no doubt, but as far as anything deeper? I'm not sure. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess came out but was essentially a re-hash of Orcarina of time. I haven't seen any innovation at a level deeper than Wii sports. I couldn't even imagine something as complex as Fallout on the Wii. Then again it depends what you want out of gaming. I certainly hope gaming doesn't simply become re-hashes of previous games and/or innovative, but shallow time-wasters. Innovative and deep will do me just fine.

 

[Rainstorm]

The last four games I bought were all impulse buys, FEAR because I was bored, shopping in Tescos and it was there cheaper than in GAME or Gamestation and they had a further reduction, on all chart video games to boot. SW Battlefront, Empire at War & KOTOR2, all because SKY TV had been showing all six Star Wars movies on all month. Sure I'm a fool, FEAR has to be the most boring game I've ever played, the other three only are interesting due to their franchise.

We differ in that way,nothing more to it than that,I don't do impulse buys when it comes to games.(when it comes to movies I can do it though,but that's at a bit under half-price compared to a game...last I did it with was Sin city and that was a lucky risktaking...from my POV,since I like it,a lot)

Like Sorrow I would prefer to spend my money on books and DVDs, I won't pirate, there's just so few pc games out or coming out that interest me. Even those few that do look interesting don't tantalise me enough to motivate me to make a trip to the next town.

If I take into account the PC gaming club I was in -which sent a game every three weeks,for about 20€ each-,I've still spent about 5 times the amount of games on movies,books and music CD's,so it's the same here.

The Wii is the king of the time-wasters no doubt, but as far as anything deeper? I'm not sure. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess came out but was essentially a re-hash of Orcarina of time. I haven't seen any innovation at a level deeper than Wii sports. I couldn't even imagine something as complex as Fallout on the Wii. Then again it depends what you want out of gaming. I certainly hope gaming doesn't simply become re-hashes of previous games and/or innovative, but shallow time-wasters.

What sander meant is that the concept of how to play was innovative,not the games,the controls are what makes wii stand out from the rest.(and it can not compete in graphics with its opposition,but still sold very well due to being innovative)