GGL previews Fallout 3

Brother None

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
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GGL put up their preview of Fallout 3:<blockquote>The Fallout series, to me, is part nostalgia and part niche. While this game has always held a special place in the heart of many a hardcore gamer, it's not really something that can be classified as a guaranteed runaway smash hit. And perhaps, this is what Bethesda is thinking as well when they decided to abandon the turn-based style gameplay with a user-friendly real-time FPS/RPG hybrid.

While still having the same style and tone as the first game, this new version looks to break from the indie shell and into a mainstream product that can not only cater to hardcore role-playing fans, but shooter fans who may need a change of pace.

(...)

So what exactly is new in Fallout 3? Well, besides a completely overhauled view of playing -- first-person shooter vs. a top-down classic RPG -- the game also just doesn't completely abandon its RPG roots. One of the most interesting aspects of combat in the game is the V.A.T.S. system. Essentially, it's a targeting system that is initiated with the press of a button and allows the player to target specific parts of an enemy's body. Depending on conditions, each body part has a higher percentage to hit than another -- the computer will make a roll for you as if you were playing a table-top RPG to determine your success.

If you first only had this described to you, it may sound like something that detracts or slows down actual gameplay, but in fact it heightens the experience. Even though it is a bit early in development, had V.A.T.S. not been included, the game may have felt just like your everyday RPG/shooter hybrid. Instead, this new feature adds incredibly to the flow and feeling of playing a well-thought experience.

(...)

At its heart, obviously, Fallout 3 is an RPG. No matter how much it may look like a shooter from the outside, deep down, this is an RPG. Besides the V.A.T.S. system and dialogue branches, the player will get their role-playing fix by earning experience and distributing points to various skills needed as you progress through the world. Of course, how you want to play will determine where you place those skill points (of which, you have 14 different areas ready for distribution).

And besides skills, you'll also get awarded different titles based on your "karma" of playing within the game. Not only can you be evil or good, but also play neutral -- something of which the developers were sure to make a full-featured and working role. </blockquote>Link: Fallout 3 preview on GGL
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
Hi Brother None,

Thanks for posting.

I do not agree with the points of this writer.
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:rofl:

For some reason, that was hilarious.

Always enjoy your posts, Dutch Ghost :ok:
 
It believe that this is the article that comes closest to blatantly calling it an FPS.
 
It's amazing how previews can wander from "Something to revitalize the roleplaying genre" to "something for shooter fans who want a change of pace" from one site to the next. :clap:
 
Hello NukaColaClassic,

I wanted to be polite regarding this preview, we aren't angry yelling fans most of the time. :D

Well my first problem would pretty much be, why should RPGs be made so that they appeal to FPS fans?
Next to RPGs I am also an FPS fan and I have pretty much choice when it comes to that, RPGs, especially science fiction RPGs are much rarer and I don't really feel that they need to be combined with FPS gameplay.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Deus Ex, but that wasn't a full RPG to begin with.
Fallout has more of a tradition that it was based on 'conventional' RPGs, it wanted to recreate the atmosphere of those games without the need of a rule book and other such material the whole time.


Though the writers like to say that systems like VATS make the game more RPG like, I have to disagree, in RPGs it still depended on how much skill you had devoted to the use of weapons, explaining why you could use some weapons better than other.

VATS is more of a pause option with which you can aim the weapon more precisely, it doesn't at all involve your skill level.
Even without you would be able to make critical hits were as in a traditional RPG the chances are that you will be able to make effective use of a weapon you haven't trained your character are much slimmer.

In a way that go for all the skills in an RPG.
Yes it is mentioned that you have to appoint points to various skills but I get more the idea that instead of directly influencing said skill, take for example science which you might use to reprogram a robot, that it simply gives you more time for the minigame Bethesda made up which you need to play to reprogram the robot.

While not mentioned in this preview, I think minigames kind of detract from the whole RPG feel.
Perhaps it is fun to play as an easter egg but quests shouldn't be dependent on how good you are in guessing a word or code.


Another thing, and this is not meant as whining despite that it might sound that, is that Bethesda do not seem to understand the setting well.

So they bring in Super Mutants and the Brotherhood of Steel for example, two familiar factions of Fallout 1 and 2.
But if you played either of those games and you would be really into the story you would have to conclude that neither faction belongs on the East Coast.

Both were products of developments at the West Coast, Mariposa and FEV, the Brotherhood are descendants of the military unit that was assigned to Mariposa, and the Mutants were later created by FEV.

They are also wrongly portrayed, a mistake that was made by earlier Fallout games.

The Brotherhood of Steel are isolationists who hoard technology because it is their base of strength, they were never interested in becoming a police force or Mutant hunters.


The Super Mutants have been declining as a threat since the events of Fallout 1, they lost their leader and their means of creating new Super Mutants; Mariposa Base and FEV.

The years after claimed more mutants and most of the midwest USA has become such a hell that probably a lot of mutants daring the journey would have died before reasing the East Coast.


The only reason why Bethesda put both in were because they are traditionally associated with Fallout.
I am surprised that the Enclave has not been mentioned.


Okay this wouldn't say a games writer much as he or she previews or reviews a lot of games every day and can't remember all the details.

But I would like to compare it to a good book series, if the third part of a trilogy is going to discard everything mentioned in the earlier two books, but maintains the same characters but now with completely different personalities and motivations, what is the point of bringing these characters up again?

Same kind of goes here, why use familiar faces when you are not going to portray them as they are suppose to be?

Bethesda could have used the opportunity to create whole new 'faces'.
I know enough people who could come up with factions just as good as the Brotherhood and the Super Mutants.


This is not as much as a problem, more of an annoyance; a working radio station that apparently broadcasts news.
Its not such a far fetched idea that someone might restore such equipment but I do not think anyone in a Post Apocalypse world suddenly become a radio jockey that collected news over the wasteland and runs music in between.

The choice of music is nice but simply put it in the pipboy for the player to run during the journey.


I hope I have somewhat satisfied your question.
 
Xombie said:
It believe that this is the article that comes closest to blatantly calling it an FPS.
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Amusingly, look closely at that paragraph:

At its heart, obviously, Fallout 3 is an RPG. No matter how much it may look like a shooter from the outside, deep down, this is an RPG. Besides the V.A.T.S. system and dialogue branches, the player will get their role-playing fix by earning experience and distributing points to various skills needed as you progress through the world. Of course, how you want to play will determine where you place those skill points (of which, you have 14 different areas ready for distribution).

Are they serious? "It's not a shooter, it's an RPG, because you can switch RT to RTwP, and it has dialogue, and levels!" Wow, talking about trying to explain why Diablo is an RPG.

I hope it's not that bad and this reviewer is just an idiot.
 
Tannhauser said:
All this time Fallout was an indie game, and we just didn't realize it? Who knew.
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Apparently the people on the Gamespot boards, one of whom accused me of criticizing Fallout 3 because I was afraid that Bethesda is making it mainstream and no longer "my" game; despite the fact that I made it abundantly clear that I was upset over the stupid concepts they're putting in the game (Rock-It Launcher, Fatboy, Exploding Nuclear Cars)...
 
Tannhauser said:
All this time Fallout was an indie game, and we just didn't realize it? Who knew.
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Hmmm, I wonder if this person was born yesterday and didn't look up where Fallout had come from. Heh, indie game indeed. I can't wait till all the hype has passed over once the game is released. Usually people get over it about a year after games are released. Then we can take a deep breath and hopefully be able to relax after the passing storm. But, it is unfortunate to say that there will probably be some damage afterwards.
 
hatchen said:
Hmmm, I wonder if this person was born yesterday and didn't look up where Fallout had come from. Heh, indie game indeed. I can't wait till all the hype has passed over once the game is released. Usually people get over it about a year after games are released. Then we can take a deep breath and hopefully be able to relax after the passing storm. But, it is unfortunate to say that there will probably be some damage afterwards.
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Hello Hatchen,

I asked something similar in another thread.

As Oblivion was the big thing a year ago, Fallout 3 is now the next thing by Bethesda, attracting many people who otherwise never looked at Fallout because it looks old and outdated.
Right now because Bethesda is making Fallout 3, they are Fallout fans and it is a RPG to them because Bethesda says that it is so.

When in a couple of years a new part of the Elder Scrolls is released, how many will then claim that they are Fallout fans?
And if the system of the new Elder Scrolls is different from Oblivion and Fallout 3, will they still call Fallout 3 an RPG, or a failed FPS that tried to be a RPG because Beth's new game dictates what an RPG is?
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
While not mentioned in this preview, I think minigames kind of detract from the whole RPG feel.
Perhaps it is fun to play as an easter egg but quests shouldn't be dependent on how good you are in guessing a word or code.
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Well in my honest opinion, it sure as hell beats clicking your Skilldex, clicking a door, failing to reprogram a bot, and clicking again, again, and again, watching the same damn "Use" animation your character makes.

The Dutch Ghost said:
So they bring in Super Mutants and the Brotherhood of Steel for example, two familiar factions of Fallout 1 and 2.
But if you played either of those games and you would be really into the story you would have to conclude that neither faction belongs on the East Coast.

Both were products of developments at the West Coast, Mariposa and FEV, the Brotherhood are descendants of the military unit that was assigned to Mariposa, and the Mutants were later created by FEV.

They are also wrongly portrayed, a mistake that was made by earlier Fallout games.

The Brotherhood of Steel are isolationists who hoard technology because it is their base of strength, they were never interested in becoming a police force or Mutant hunters.
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I'm sure Bethesda could explain what the BoS and Super Mutants are doing there. Is it really a silly idea to think that some Super Mutants survived the migration east? Do we know enough about what the Midwest was like? And yes, the BoS love to hoard technology, so wouldn't it make sense that they send Vertibirds packed with BoS guys to the East Coast and look for other possible technologies ripe for the picking? To my knowledge Black Isle never gave us many details on the East Coast, so Bethesda adding story details to the East Coast won't seem bad as long as they follow what's already been set.
 
NukaColaClassic said:
Well in my honest opinion, it sure as hell beats clicking your Skilldex, clicking a door, failing to reprogram a bot, and clicking again, again, and again, watching the same damn "Use" animation your character makes.
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The number keys corresponded with the skilldex skills.

And minigames do not belong in a true role-playing game.

That's why, I guess, they're in Fallout 3...
 
Ahahahaha! Fresh meat!

Although, just for your information, in a real RPG, the result of any action you take should only be dependent on your character's abilities, not your own.
 
NukaColaClassic said:
I'd consider RPG's such as the Final Fantasy series as real role-playing games, and they have tons of minigames.
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Notice how people keep using words like "pure" or "true." If you define RPGs haphazourdly, it'll be a genre that stretches from Diablo to the Gold Box Games. And you can stretch it that far, but many prefer to seperate it into more subsections, like TES being a roguelike series, Oblivion being a roguelike/ActionRPG hybrid, PS:T being a dialogue-based RPG and Fallout being a "true" RPG (which just means "true" to its pen and paper roots).

Anyone who suggests the term cTRPG will get shot. And raped. Painfully.
 
Hello NukaColaClassic,

NukaColaClassic said:
Well in my honest opinion, it sure as hell beats clicking your Skilldex, clicking a door, failing to reprogram a bot, and clicking again, again, and again, watching the same damn "Use" animation your character makes.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but it doesn't belong in the Fallout gameplay.
They detract from the skills system.

Its exactly the situation you describe what makes skills and point assignment critical :)
I take it you did not assign enough points to science, excluding that option for you, however perhaps you added more to speech and therefore can talk with Super Mutants (they aren't all brainless oafs) or perhaps stealth.

In RPGs like Fallout it often doesn't pay off trying to be a 'jack-of-all-trades', you have to make decisions and that shapes a character to your gameplay.


NukaColaClassic said:
I'm sure Bethesda could explain what the BoS and Super Mutants are doing there. Is it really a silly idea to think that some Super Mutants survived the migration east? Do we know enough about what the Midwest was like? And yes, the BoS love to hoard technology, so wouldn't it make sense that they send Vertibirds packed with BoS guys to the East Coast and look for other possible technologies ripe for the picking? To my knowledge Black Isle never gave us many details on the East Coast, so Bethesda adding story details to the East Coast won't seem bad as long as they follow what's already been set.
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No, I even pointed that out, some Super Mutants could indeed survive the journey.
However a hoard of them wouldn't because there aren't that much Super Mutants anymore.
Bethesda has created a scenario in which they bring up that an army of them seeks to take over DC, it even includes a Mutant type that doesn't exist; the Behemoth. (a mutant that can resist small atomic explosions no less)


In Fallout 2 it was explained that the Brotherhood has weakened to the point that they are no longer capable of large operations or campaigns, they simply don't have the manpower anymore to send complete expeditions to the East Coast, or are not willing to risk it.

Again Bethesda brings up an idea of a full platoon of them being in DC.
The Elders would probably see that as a waste of their paladins.

As for the vertibird deal, well I may be incorrect but didn't the Brotherhood want to those plans in order to create a defence against them?
The Shi were more eager to create their own vertibirds.

Plus the Brotherhood doesn't have the resources to manufacture vertibirds.
repairing a car is one thing, but building vertibirds which in the eyes of the Elders would be to valuable to waste probable unrewarding expeditions, is something else.

By their reasoning DC is a big crater with all the technology fried by the EMP released by the bombs.
 
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