Goddammit, I hate being wrong - showrunners fucked New Vegas

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

In the pre-Bethesda canon, the plan was that NCR gets nuked in Van Buren by a random mad scientist with a space station full of nuclear weapons.

To be fair, I seem to remember the plot being that the player would be able to stop the launch of at least some of the nukes, and failing that, would be able to decide which towns get hit and which don’t. I think this would’ve been cool from an RPG design perspective. The player’s skill would factor into just how many nukes get launched, and the player would have to make the difficult decision of which cities get hit. So, even though Presper isn’t the most interesting idea for a villain, his plan does allow for an interesting choice to be made at the end of the game.

But in a TV show, no such decisions can be made by the audience. Whatever happens is what happens, there’s no choice and consequences, no replayability. So I’d hope they’d come up with a better idea than that.

 

[CT Phipps]

To be fair, I seem to remember the plot being that the player would be able to stop the launch of at least some of the nukes, and failing that, would be able to decide which towns get hit and which don’t. I think this would’ve been cool from an RPG design perspective. The player’s skill would factor into just how many nukes get launched, and the player would have to make the difficult decision of which cities get hit. So, even though Presper isn’t the most interesting idea for a villain, his plan does allow for an interesting choice to be made at the end of the game.

But in a TV show, no such decisions can be made by the audience. Whatever happens is what happens, there’s no choice and consequences, no replayability. So I’d hope they’d come up with a better idea than that.

Take note that Wasteland 2 more or less copies this as the ending of the game.

 

[Bradylama]

To be fair, I seem to remember the plot being that the player would be able to stop the launch of at least some of the nukes, and failing that, would be able to decide which towns get hit and which don’t. I think this would’ve been cool from an RPG design perspective. The player’s skill would factor into just how many nukes get launched, and the player would have to make the difficult decision of which cities get hit. So, even though Presper isn’t the most interesting idea for a villain, his plan does allow for an interesting choice to be made at the end of the game.

But in a TV show, no such decisions can be made by the audience. Whatever happens is what happens, there’s no choice and consequences, no replayability. So I’d hope they’d come up with a better idea than that.

We don't just get no choice over what happens, we don't even see it happening. Which robs it of any emotional or thematic resonance and misses the whole fucking point of doing a tv show, by NOT SHOWING something.

 

[CT Phipps]

We don't just get no choice over what happens, we don't even see it happening. Which robs it of any emotional or thematic resonance and misses the whole fucking point of doing a tv show, by NOT SHOWING something.

I mean we see Maximus' reaction and the giant crater.

 

[Bradylama]

Giant craters aren't special in this world. We saw one before already. We're not even seeing the ruins of a once proud city, it's just a fucking hole in the ground. They couldn't have picked a more lame way to depict this if they tried.

 

[Hassknecht]

I mean we see Maximus' reaction and the giant crater.

Maximus' reaction? Fucker hasn't shown a single reaction in the entire season besides sometimes a light smile when he realises he can be mean to someone.

 

[laclongquan]

What is this?

Games are games, and TV shows are TV shows.

Are you asking TV Shows to even follow games? Naivete much?

Personally in all these retcons in TV shows I dont have a tiny bit objection, if only because I know both are separate, and if the show writers dont break down shit, keep it simple and stupid, even retcon a fucking load, there's no way the audience can follow Fallout logic.

It is another parallel universe, imagined by how the 50s would imagine future to be, themselves are a figment of 90s devs' imagination of how the 50s would think. That kind of twisty POV is not to be fed to TV audience because they wont get it in its full glory.

From the very start, there's just no way the shows can be even a bit similar to games.

 

[R.Graves]

Which benefits the actual shitty changes made by groups because if there's everything is bad, there's no way of critiquing what they did wrong.

But literally everything is bad. It's wrong from every angle. We just want some basic consistency and some new ideas. And we want it to feel like fallout instead of some bizarro reinterpretation that seems based entirely off skimming one wikipedia article. It's not as if we're playing Mario kart and complaining it's not like dark souls enough

 

[CT Phipps]

But literally everything is bad. It's wrong from every angle. We just want some basic consistency and some new ideas. And we want it to feel like fallout instead of some bizarro reinterpretation that seems based entirely off skimming one wikipedia article. It's not as if we're playing Mario kart and complaining it's not like dark souls enough

Which is my point. You can't talk about the game in any way that actually says anything about it because it's all, "It's all awful."

Nothing about the characters, writing, what's fun, what's not.

What could be improved.

It's just white noise.

Discussion is impossible.

 

[R.Graves]

Which is my point. You can't talk about the game in any way that actually says anything about it because it's all, "It's all awful."

Nothing about the characters, writing, what's fun, what's not.

What could be improved.

It's just white noise.

Discussion is impossible.

Mfw there haven't been any discussions on this forum since 2008 because negativity isn't discussion (Phipps said so).

Although you seeing opinions that aren't you're own goes a long way to explain why you somehow never understand what we're saying. Anyways you catch up on yakuza yet?

 

[CT Phipps]

Mfw there haven't been any discussions on this forum since 2008 because negativity isn't discussion (Phipps said so).

Yes, please describe the threads about individual plots, worldbuilding, and idea. Generally, it's the sea of, "Bethesda sucks and they don't get Fallout" on these forums.

Try posting a discussion about specific plot elements and worldbuilding and see how much debate you get.

 

[Bradylama]

Bethesda not getting Fallout is well trodden ground. That's why it's so remarkable that the showrunners managed to do something even worse than Bethesda did.

 

[Bawls Lover]

"We really wanted to imply, guys, the world has progressed, and the idea that the wasteland stays as it is decade-to-decade is preposterous to us. It’s just a place [of] constant tragedy, events, horrors—here's a constant churn of trauma. We're definitely implying more has occurred."

"It really was our belief, also, that though there are the events of the games, it's not frozen after that. History is not static. It keeps going, and entropy is a constant. Which is a less flashy way of saying 'war never changes'."

???? How much fucking Bawls were they drinking?

 

[Traeger91]

Yes, please describe the threads about individual plots, worldbuilding, and idea. Generally, it's the sea of, "Bethesda sucks and they don't get Fallout" on these forums.

Try posting a discussion about specific plot elements and worldbuilding and see how much debate you get.

That's the thing isn't it, the negatives so far outweigh the very small positives that the positives are hardly worth talking about. I liked the soundtrack of 3, at least to a degree, it definitely gave the feeling of being alone in a dead world. Other than that, aside from a few side quests and maybe some small world building here and there... the rest was pretty bad. Also, aside from stealing an occasional idea from fans, I doubt they really care about what players or viewers want. Just look at 4 and 76, It's like one step forward ten steps back.

 

[R.Graves]

has there ever been an NMA attempt at a total conversion for fallout 3 and 4? i mean we're hanging around here for years and years anyways. the idea of a series of TCs comprising a semi official "NMA continuity" is a really cool idea if we can keep it up. rewrite fallout 3 to remove the crazy lore stretching expanding on the good idea's bethesda did have and title it FALLOUT: DC. i mean shit we're passionate enough to do this in theory. and it would make us more than some internet whiners objectively. there was an extensive rewrite done by a user named @Radiosity or something that had some cool ideas in it a long while back

 

[Hassknecht]

What positive is there about Fallout 3? I liked the general art design. They nailed the architecture and I was generally happy with their 3D interpretation of the world.
But, uh, beyond that? I didn't like the story. I didn't like the gameplay. I didn't like the lore or the worldbuilding. I have probably written long posts about each aspect before, so just a short recap. The gameplay was a clunky mess that did neither RPG nor shooter style well. The story was a random mish-mash of Fallout 1 and 2, with little regard for logic, consistency, or common sense. We gotta go out find dad, then we gotta find the GECK, and then all the cool things you love from Fallout are there! There is the BOS, very different and kinda out of place, but hey, they're cool! There's the Enclave, who have the same evil plot they had in F2, but this time by poisoning the water supply! There are super mutants, because somehow Vault-Tec made them as well in a vault experiment! Haha, Gaaaary!
Many of the locations in the wasteland felt like pointless filler, were extremely poorly thought out, or, while cool in concept, lacked any effort put into them.
That's the tip of the iceberg.

@graves: I don't know about TCs, but I surely would be interested in compiling a PnP source book/campaign to fix F3 and 4.

 

[Traeger91]

has there ever been an NMA attempt at a total conversion for fallout 3 and 4? i mean we're hanging around here for years and years anyways. the idea of a series of TCs comprising a semi official "NMA continuity" is a really cool idea if we can keep it up. rewrite fallout 3 to remove the crazy lore stretching expanding on the good idea's bethesda did have and title it FALLOUT: DC. i mean shit we're passionate enough to do this in theory. and it would make us more than some internet whiners objectively. there was an extensive rewrite done by a user named @Radiosity or something that had some cool ideas in it a long while back

That's a lot of work, almost an unreasonable amount. Think about the reasons it's taken so long to get a successor to Van Buren.

 

[R.Graves]

What positive is there about Fallout 3? I liked the general art design. They nailed the architecture and I was generally happy with their 3D interpretation of the world.
But, uh, beyond that? I didn't like the story. I didn't like the gameplay. I didn't like the lore or the worldbuilding. I have probably written long posts about each aspect before, so just a short recap. The gameplay was a clunky mess that did neither RPG nor shooter style well. The story was a random mish-mash of Fallout 1 and 2, with little regard for logic, consistency, or common sense. We gotta go out find dad, then we gotta find the GECK, and then all the cool things you love from Fallout are there! There is the BOS, very different and kinda out of place, but hey, they're cool! There's the Enclave, who have the same evil plot they had in F2, but this time by poisoning the water supply! There are super mutants, because somehow Vault-Tec made them as well in a vault experiment! Haha, Gaaaary!
Many of the locations in the wasteland felt like pointless filler, were extremely poorly thought out, or, while cool in concept, lacked any effort put into them.
That's the tip of the iceberg.

right but a TC can change literally all of those complaints

That's a lot of work, almost an unreasonable amount. Think about the reasons it's taken so long to get a successor to Van Buren.

you say that but people do do shit like this. its been done with the classics. skyrim has enderaal morrowind has tamriel rebuilt and so on

 

[Hassknecht]

right but a TC can change literally all of those complaints

Sure. Personally, I'd rather try and restore Van Buren than working on FPS mechanics, but yeah, sure, a TC could help.

 

[Traeger91]

It's definitely not impossible, it's just that in the time it would take to make a complete conversion, several other games set in the world of Fallout could be made. It just seems like a waste of time to fix something that's really not worth fixing.