Greece is the time, is the place, is the commotion- Riots

[DexterMorgan]

This isn't going to lead to anything

It leads to governments realizing they're not untouchable, that people will only act as sheep that can easily be manipulated for so long before they boil over.

There needn't be radical change in the political system, scaring the officials into actually taking care what they do with the people is enough.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

This isn't going to lead to anything

It leads to governments realizing they're not untouchable, that people will only act as sheep that can easily be manipulated for so long before they boil over.

There needn't be radical change in the political system, scaring the officials into actually taking care what they do with the people is enough.

If you think the antics of a bunch of kids running around tossing rocks at cars is going to scare the government you are living in a pipe dream.

It is not like they are any real "resistance" I hope you know if the government wanted to shut them down they could easily do it using force in a few days. I know that would just martyr them and create more social unrest but the point still stands.

Lets see a few of them actually attack and kill a cop and watch what happens.

 

[DexterMorgan]

If you think the antics of a bunch of kids running around tossing rocks at cars is going to scare the government you are living in a pipe dream.

It is not like they are any real "resistance" I hope you know if the government wanted to shut them down they could easily do it using force in a few days. I know that would just martyr them and create more social unrest but the point still stands.

Lets see a few of them actually attack and kill a cop and watch what happens.

Why would they attack and kill a cop? That kind of thing makes sense only in a black-and-white view of a chronic label sticker predisposed to be overly judgmental of things he labels "evil" (see "ragheads", "commies", "liberal pinkos") and tolerant of the intolerable if labeled "good" (see waterboarding, constitution-breaking Patriot Act, etc.).

So instead of arguing with you over your uninformed opinions, I'm gonna stick a preemptive label on you so I can safely dismiss your opinions in the future: ignorant warmongering rightwinger.

I'm only doing this to avoid getting into a protracted argument akin to the one I had with an Iraq war supporter before the actual invasion. That idiot still claims Saddam had nuclear weapon potential.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

If you think the antics of a bunch of kids running around tossing rocks at cars is going to scare the government you are living in a pipe dream.

It is not like they are any real "resistance" I hope you know if the government wanted to shut them down they could easily do it using force in a few days. I know that would just martyr them and create more social unrest but the point still stands.

Lets see a few of them actually attack and kill a cop and watch what happens.

Why would they attack and kill a cop? That kind of thing makes sense only in a black-and-white view of a chronic label sticker predisposed to be overly judgmental of things he labels "evil" (see "ragheads", "commies", "liberal pinkos") and tolerant of the intolerable if labeled "good" (see waterboarding, constitution-breaking Patriot Act, etc.).

So instead of arguing with you over your uninformed opinions, I'm gonna stick a preemptive label on you so I can safely dismiss your opinions in the future: ignorant warmongering rightwinger.

I'm only doing this to avoid getting into a protracted argument akin to the one I had with an Iraq war supporter before the actual invasion. That idiot still claims Saddam had nuclear weapon potential.

I fail to see how they could strike any real "fear" as you so put it into the government by doing what they are currently doing. ffs they did not even want to go out into the rain .

Joking aside I will come back and admit defeat if any real social change comes out of this, but honestly unless something drastic happens I do not see this solving anything.


Also to note you said "Why would they want to attack and kill a cop?" Well why would they want to throw a Molotov at a cop?
You said yourself "Firebomb the bastards". Violence loses its "fear factor" when you know the people doing the acts are not willing to go all the way.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I fail to see how they could strike any real "fear" as you so put it into the government by doing what they are currently doing. ffs they did not even want to go out into the rain .

Joking aside I will come back and admit defeat if any real social change comes out of this, but honestly unless something drastic happens I do not see this solving anything.

Oh damn, you're being reasonable. My magic label, it does nothing!

Joking aside.

When a government is asking for outside help in handling their own citizens, then trust me, they are afraid. You're just too used to living in a country where people are used to being hostage of the government (IRS, mortgage loans, medical insurance, out of the house and living under a bridge in a SNAP if you're unlucky), and where the people forced a change 30 years ago wielding flowers, not molotovs.

Your government is only afraid of the people at election time, and then only the part of your two-party system that's currently in office. In other countries people can and will take the government hostage when shit really hits the fan.

There needn't be any radical change in the political structure of the country, reminding those at the top that they have to mind those who voted them into office is quite enough.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

I fail to see how they could strike any real "fear" as you so put it into the government by doing what they are currently doing. ffs they did not even want to go out into the rain .

Joking aside I will come back and admit defeat if any real social change comes out of this, but honestly unless something drastic happens I do not see this solving anything.

Oh damn, you're being reasonable. My magic label, it does nothing!

Joking aside.

When a government is asking for outside help in handling their own citizens, then trust me, they are afraid. You're just too used to living in a country where people are used to being hostage of the government (IRS, mortgage loans, medical insurance, out of the house and living under a bridge in a SNAP if you're unlucky), and where the people forced a change 30 years ago wielding flowers, not molotovs.

Your government is only afraid of the people at election time, and then only the part of your two-party system that's currently in office. In other countries people can and will take the government hostage when shit really hits the fan.

There needn't be any radical change in the political structure of the country, reminding those at the top that they have to mind those who voted them into office is quite enough.

We will see eh? I still think this will blow over in a few weeks at most. The little goons who most are probably in the late teens/early 20s will eventually get tired of this or the government will get tired of it and end it.

Nothing has happened yet that really makes me take them seriously. As of right now I view the "violence" as a temper tantrum.

If it escalates I might rethink my opinion.


Also on the note of my country, To say the least things are not really bad enough here to warrant riots in the streets. Maybe that will change in a year or so due to the economy but so far nothing has been that bad.

It should also be noted due to the fact we have a firearm in almost every other house a riot in my country would be a bit more "serious".

Our cops would not fuck around if they are getting fire bombs tossed at them and to be honest our citizens would not either if private property was being destroyed.

 

[the_cpl]

selfcensored post

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html (And many other websites. Use the Google.)

I was more or less questioning the accuracy of the polls and of that number counted the error ratio for how many were not "civilians" regardless it does not matter to me either way.

They are 10,000 km far from the US. But you are "right", let's kill everybody who is not US citizen.

No, lets kill everyone who offers resistance to my countries armed forces during war.

Yes, everybody, who throws a rock deserve a bullet in the head. Right?

Depends on the situation, maybe a rubber bullet sure. I see no problems using lethal force when the fire bombs come out, a man could get a nasty burn from one of those little bottles .

They are communists. The media tries to hide this fact, but they can't. I know a mediablog (a huge one), they wrote the rioters are "extremeRIGHTISTS"! Few hours later they deleted this from their website, without apology.

I figured as much.

Maybe, but don't forget France.

To be honest I suppose it is to early to speculate but we will see.



On a side note lets not drag this thread into the ground with my views on how the Iraq/Afghan war should be handled. We have beat that dead horse in a couple of other threads and if you want to chat about it go say something to me in there or private messages.

Let this thread be about the mighty Greek uprising!

 

[M-26-7]

On a side note lets not drag this thread into the ground with my views on how the Iraq/Afghan war should be handled.

If anyone were to do that it would be you.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

On a side note lets not drag this thread into the ground with my views on how the Iraq/Afghan war should be handled.

If anyone were to do that it would be you.

Uh no it would be the person who continues to derail this thread after I already stated I do not wish to talk about it in here.

I am more than happy to discuss it on any other thread where it holds relevance or in private messages. No real need to continue the discussion in a thread about Greek riots.


Anyways back on topic, anyone who has been following this closely want to give us an update on whats going on over there today? The news websites I frequent the most are not front paging it as heavily anymore.

 

[ceacar99]

on a starting note, civil unrest in greece, hell the entire balkan region is nothing new. grecian riots were one of the events that caused a domino effect to create two world wars, i wouldnt be surprised if it starts another major one.

This isn't going to lead to anything

It leads to governments realizing they're not untouchable, that people will only act as sheep that can easily be manipulated for so long before they boil over.

There needn't be radical change in the political system, scaring the officials into actually taking care what they do with the people is enough.

If you think the antics of a bunch of kids running around tossing rocks at cars is going to scare the government you are living in a pipe dream.

It is not like they are any real "resistance" I hope you know if the government wanted to shut them down they could easily do it using force in a few days. I know that would just martyr them and create more social unrest but the point still stands.

Lets see a few of them actually attack and kill a cop and watch what happens.

man.... you have NO clue do you?

students are normally the first to start these things, its the blame of their youth and the general fact that the employment of being an educator draws individuals that would fill those kids with such ideas. however as outrage grows so will the power. first its rocks, then its bombs and a few small arms clashes. suddenly out of no where an army appears, an army that swells in number with each individual step. it becomes a cancer that is the most difficult thing to control at that point.

we saw such events in places like cuba, spain, hell even china after the second world war when war between the communists and the various factions of china continued(namely the war against cheng kai shek)). quite literally the weak sucked the strength out of the strong and made it their own in all those events.

one should note there are differences between such rebellions and military coups even if those coups are installing a civilian in power. one builds on the discontent of the general population and the other builds on the discontent of a few.

 

[Patton89]

BBC: "Hundreds of mainly young Greeks have held peaceful protests in memory of a teenager killed by police a week ago.

Meetings were held in Athens and in the city of Thessaloniki, as protesters held candles at nightfall at parliament and at the site of the shooting.

The vigils came at the end of a day that saw reports of sporadic violence, including attacks on a police station. "
They are still not even over.

"One policeman has been charged with the murder of Grigoropoulos, 15, and a second has been charged with being an accomplice.

The killing sparked off rioting that spread quickly, and has led to calls for the government to stand down.

Greek Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis has vowed not to be swayed by protests, insisting the country needs an experienced government at a time of economic crisis. "

seems that the PM is ignoring the riots.

"But there were reports of new violence.

Police said that at least two banks were targeted in Athens before youths attacked a police station."

"They then smashed paving stones and set up street barricades with burning trash bins, reports said.

Anger at the killing of the teenager has developed into a widespread sense of anger at Greece's government over the past week.

Thousands of Greeks have taken to the streets across the country, repeatedly clashing with police and vowing to overthrow the government. "

More BBC:
"Several thousand people have marched through the Greek capital Athens to protest at the government's economic policies, as part of a general strike. "



idiots attacking banks, but of course many blame the banks for the economic crisis.

Riots will have some impact on Greeces leadership, the riots won't stop in few days. It is just a matter of time before they are out of CS.

And then the goverement might be forced to bring the military to the streets. And im not vowing for the army to follow orders if its pitted against civilians and family members.



Note: sory for any grammar mistakes, i have fewer ATM. Stupid flu.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

man.... you have NO clue do you?

As I said before we will see eh? I personally do not see anything major changing over this.

Only time will tell.

 

[the_cpl]

Hundreds of mainly young Greeks have held peaceful protests in memory of a teenager killed by police a week ago.

Peaceful anarchist protesters! English humour from the BBC.

If an anarchist group is going to protest, that means violence, ALWAYS!

idiots attacking banks, but of course many blame the banks for the economic crisis

I don't get it. So they protesting against the killed anarchist now, or because the economy, or because the corruption, or what?

I still see anarchist flags and red flags only, I can't find a single Greek flag on the photos.

 

[Loxley]

If an anarchist group is going to protest, that means violence, ALWAYS!

man.... you have NO clue do you?

Says it all really. Anarchists do plenty of peacefull protests. All the year around. The thing is that they are PEACEfull so they are not notice by the media.( Media is not reporting things that does not sell) Being one thing does not neccecarily mean you are another. I have known pacifist democratic communists for example.

What you said above is what is called generalisation SSteve. You could also say Oh all muslims fly airplanes into houses and they are all violent rapists. All republican presidents are mad servants of the oil industry since bush was one. all americans have guns and shoot people in schools after all does not that hapen pretty often? All black peopler are rapping criminals and all jews are money hungry people that plans to overthrow the world....ect ect ect. See where I am going with this?

 

[ceacar99]

man.... you have NO clue do you?

As I said before we will see eh? I personally do not see anything major changing over this.

Only time will tell.

well your right, not much will likely change over this.... . that is not because the people dont have the power, its because the setting is not quite deep enough yet for a major change. however i had to rail about the moronic statement that the rioters couldnt possibly lead to any change.

 

[Bal-Sagoth]

man.... you have NO clue do you?

As I said before we will see eh? I personally do not see anything major changing over this.

Only time will tell.

well your right, not much will likely change over this.... . that is not because the people dont have the power, its because the setting is not quite deep enough yet for a major change. however i had to rail about the moronic statement that the rioters couldnt possibly lead to any change.

I never meant rioters in general, it is all situational and depending on different factors anything is possible.
I was referring directly towards the goons currently running around in Greece right now.

All the same I will give them the benefit of the doubt all the same and wait a couple of weeks before I pass harsh judgment.

You never know what might happen.

 

[the_cpl]

selfcensored post

 

[mulaalia]

Like in other countries.

" - Hey dude, that guy has more money than we have."
" - Wow, let's go and kill him!"

Seriously...

I don't know if this is a joke, but gap in the Balkans is made through criminal activity,shady deals and corruption, Greece is no exception.

 

[Patton89]

wouldnt call it peacefull :

"Violent clashes broke out in the capital, Athens, on Saturday evening following a day of largely peaceful vigils for Alexandros Grigoropoulos.

Youths threw petrol bombs at banks and the police station where the officer charged with the teenager's killing was based. Police responded with tear gas. "

and apparently the goverment has been affected:

"ATHENS (Reuters) - A week of violence in Greece has taken its toll on the fragile conservative government, with opinion polls showing on Sunday many think authorities mishandled the worst rioting in decades."

I guess that the riots will restart soon. The people are unsatisfied, angry and in bad economic situation. The goverment of greece hasn't done anything really, in order to stop these riots. If they accepted the demands, the rioters would likely loose their support.
Even some of the teachers are demanding better education side by side with the students.