T
TorontoReign
Guest
This video is responsible for gun violence.
Gun Control
- Thread starter Throatpunch
- Start date
This video is responsible for gun violence.
What about it? Form a cohesive argument please, because I am not sure what you're trying to say here. As far as I remember, the topic of the conversation is not gun related viollence in Brazil. But hey, if you want to compare a nation like Brazil witht the United States, be my guest, I believe it's not a good argument in the favour of the US. Point is, you will have a very hard time to find a prosperous and stabile democracy that has the same rate of gun viollence or crime like the United States has. - And yes I am well aware that the crime rate is not related to the numbers of weapons in a society, I never made that claim by the way. I am not arguing against the rights of citizens to own fire arms.
Let me start with a question? What is 'The Left' for you?
In todays discussion and political culture leftism is often used as some kind of umbrella that is sometimes used to scare everyone from 'those' people, which if you don't watch out will take your guns away and with that all kinds of rights like free speech and liberty! - Red Scare! Healthcare is Communism!
Or it is simply used as a degrading term to anyone like extreme-right wingers disagree with, uhm! Yeah but he is a damn lib-tard, what does he know! For them, Hillary, Obama, and everything outside the Republican party is a leftist ...
Just to make this clear, I am a die hard leftist.
Of course we're not liberals, why should we be? We never have been, and we never will. That's like saying there are no liberals among right wingers anymore, like as there ever have been ...
Also your idea about the Left is hillarious. Just from a political point of view, leftists are actually closer to anarchists then your 'control-freak-big-brotherish hype-puritan dispshits' for the very simple reason, that leftists are often free thinkers, intellectuals, anti-authoritarian etc. and ended up in Gulags and under repression in socialist dictatorship, leftists are a relatively small group and they will always be, the reality is that liberals which are usually the majority simply adobt leftist or right wing/conservative ideas - depending on where the mainstream is leaning towards. That doesn't mean that extrem-leftists can't be viollent or commit crimes and even terrorism! As we have seen with plenty of leftist movements like the RAF in Germany, which killed people and which as a group I completely reject as a movement, they often want to disrubt societies and governments regardless if they are democratic or not, infact a 'perfect' communist society would have no government and authority at all. But the idea that authoritarianism would be an inherent quality of the left is ludicrous. Lenin for example (just like Stalin) was actually a right wing deviation from the socialist movement which are the figures that are usually very prominent, but you have on the other side leftists like Rosa Luxemburg or Trosky who have been very critical of Leninism.
Let us look at some of the core principles of the political left:
Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy.[1][2][3][4] It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others (prioritarianism) as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished (by advocating for social justice).[1] The term left-wing can also refer to "the radical, reforming, or socialist section of a political party or system"
And now at the political right:
Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal or desirable,[1][2][3] typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition.[4]:p. 693, 721[5][6][7][8][9][page needed] Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences[10][11] or the competition in market economies.[12][13] The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system".
Those are both terms that go back to the French parliament and the seating with conservatives sitting on the right, and progressives on the left. Now, you tell me which political system is closer to authoritarianism.
That might actually be a good idea honestly ...
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Cliffy McEdgeface
bitch I will cut you
"prosperous and stable". Ah, I see, you add a couple qualifiers on it and the problem just vanishes? Interesting. No, you see, Brazil has had comparatively strict laws for guns for a while (though they're kicking around the idea of relaxing them a bit last I knew) and their firearm murder rate is fucking ASTONISHINGLY high. They're not even the highest, but the numbers that come out of that place make me blanch. But "prosperous and stable" is where you're going to split hairs. Well, Brazil represents over 3 percent of the WORLD'S economy (which is probably why they are major players in the BRICS group) with a GDP in the thousands of billions of American dollars. Stable? They're undergoing some political turmoil last I knew, totally unlike anything here in the USA... corruption scandals, accusations of rigged elections I think... you know, now that I say that aloud it sounds sort of familiar. Hm.
'The Left' ranges from Antifa nutbags, champagne socialist college students and their handlers/professors, radfems and dyed-in-the-fucking-wool Communism apologists (with overlap perfectly possible between any and all of these) to comparatively laissez-fairé folks who just prefer to have a few things like social safety nets and regulatory agencies around. I sympathize MUCH more with the latter.
In today's discussion and political culture rightism is often used as some kind of umbrella that is sometimes used to scare everyone from 'those' people, which if you don't watch out will take your gay marriages and abortions away and with that all kinds of rights like personal autonomy and freedom of association! - Nazi Scare!
Do you get it yet? Do I need to hammer it a bit harder?
Or it is simply used as a derogative term to anyone they disagree with, uhm! Yeah but he's a fucking fascist, what does he know! For them, Trump, Bush and everything outside the Democratic party is a Nazi...
Do you see it yet?
Really? Couldn't tell at all.
Hooboy. "We're the true left, we were always the true left, anyone who says otherwise is a revisionist!" Yeah, you're not alarming me at ALL right now.
The ones trying to control what I say, how I say it and when I say it. The ones trying to erode my ability to resist a tyranny should it arise. The ones who want to impose upon my mind a form of secular original sin that I must atone for, forever and ever. The ones who think people like fucking Mao Zedong are someone to LOOK UP TO. I say again, you have LOST THE PLOT. Your side is in the process of making the conservatives look like PERFECTLY REASONABLE PEOPLE. You can post dictionary-definitions of the right wing and left wing until you are blue in the face, and I'll remind you that dictionaries are roughly 25 years behind the curve by their very nature. You are associating yourself with absolute NUTCASES who are riding the coattails of things like the Civil Rights movement and RAPIDLY eroding the goodwill built up by liberals.
SilverStarApple/Epsilon7
Still Mildly Glowing
Believe me, I can tell.
You start, not by addressing his criticisms of your political party, but by pretending that your political party doesn't exist and exists in a mysterious state of mystery, meaning all criticisms of it are invalid.
Then, you make a generalizing statement about "Today" and what life is like today, while using that to try and discredit what your political opponent is saying. You mockingly imitate your opponent mocking you because you can't form a mature and intelligent argument and you don't want him to mock the left's faulty ideas. You claim that the red scare was not necessary or justified, while comparing people telling commies to shut it to people thinking you're full of shit. Nice persecution complex, pal. You intentionally strawman an argument against Obamacare nobody even fucking made, because some part of you knows it's bullshit to make everyone pay extra for their healthcare and make everyone without it pay extra for not having it, just so tax-leeches can get tummy balloons, but you don't feel like listening to the only part of you worth listening to.
And then, you claim that "Left Winger" is a term that exists to degrade all non-right-wingers, which is honestly absolutely hilarious. Thank you, I haven't laughed that hard in a while. Oh, the irony is palpable! You're projecting so hard, you're practically astral projecting!
Libertarianism. Monarchism. Conservativism. Nationalism. Capitalism. Anarcho-Capitalism. There are ideologies, and then there are apolitical groups. Gamers. Comic fans. Book fans! What binds them together? The modern left, coated in meaningless labels but the same red under all the labels, loathes them and wants them censored, shamed, and intimidated into silence. To you, all of the aforementioned groups are "Alt-Right", they're "Racist sexist homophobic xenophobic heteropatriarchal bigoted double hitlers", just because they're standing up for themselves and telling you to stop attacking them.
You say we're wrong about your ideology, which means we can't critique it. You say we're stupid misguided haters if we critique it.
And I say... because the leftist ideology, The Intersectionality, the feminist-communist-anarchist-SocJus-islam-LGBTQPA+ anti-western world alliance, made you dumb enough to think "You can't critique us because you don't know us, dumbass! You call everyone you don't like us so your words are worthless!" a mature argument to make, I say leftist ideology needs to be debated and debunked harder than it's already been on youtube, in books you want censored, by speakers you've rioted to silence, and in reality over in Russia, China, and Venezuela.
Don't worry, you violent, childish bully. Your news sources are lying when they say we're all evil racist Nazis who are going to genocide you once we get the chance! Once we've replaced the remaining ten liberals in Congress with Trump supporters, and we can finally get your deranged, unhinged obstructionist SocJus asses out of power to stop your continued abuse of it, we'll treat you a hell of a lot better than you've been treating us, our countries, and our kids for the past 60+ years.
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If you could, we wouldn't have this discussion.
If there was actually criticism on 'my' political party - there is none by the way since I was talking about political ideology, big difference in my book, then I would have adressed it. My point was, 'Leftism' is thrown around a lot these days and it's used to describe groups that are not leftist or don't represent the left. For example, some in the Antifa might be leftists, but that doesn't make Amtifa a leftist movement just as how Punk doesn't become liberal, because there is a liberal in the Punk movement. And as long we have this issue isn't adressed, we will always spin around in circles because then I am continiously arguing about Straw Men over and over again. And honestly, I am bored of that shit.
I am all open to a honest debate about the dangers extreme leftism can pose to a society, I am not THAT full of my self to believe that characters like Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge do not exist on the left. Extremism is bad. And leftist ideals can disrubt a society, particularly one that's heavily based on hirachy and the chaos can be used by some individuals to cause all kinds of attrocities. Particularly when the once opressed parts of society actually get some serious power.
Ok, can you name some of those 'faulty' ideas and where they have lead to issues please? I have yet to actaully read some. - It is not my problem when you or others mix authoriatarianism with leftism by the way.
By some it is. I never said everyone does it. It's simply a rehtoric that was often used in the United States - historically speaking - to scare the public of leftists with the intention to silence critical voices. Don't believe it? Google 'Red Menace' or 'Red Scare'. If Mc Carthinism wasn't an extreme display of that, then I don't know what is. You had people denouncing all sorts of people in the US with the intention to blame them as 'Communists'.
Quote me please, where did I say they are all 'alt-right'. You're displaying very nicely right now, why it is such a problem to have a meaningfull discussion about the left and left ideology in the United States.
Quote me please where have I called you stupid? Besides, if you get leftism wrong, then how am I supposed to take your criticism about it serious?
You and Pariah Dog are throwing terms and ideologies around, without even undestanding what the underlying principles are.
SilverStarApple/Epsilon7
Still Mildly Glowing
Let's play a game.
You're going to stop being intellectually-dishonest. You're going to stop insulting me. You're going to stop playing the "We're playing different games which means you lose by default, I'm not an X and you know nothing about The Xs and you're total Ys!" game.
You're going to raise your level of discussion above the level of a spiteful, subversive, slippery little rat desperate to undermine his opponents and anyone else who doesn't think he's cool.
You're going to promise me you're never going to use that "You don't like leftism which means your view on it is inherently wrong, you're strawmanning it!" lie again.
And then you're going to contribute something intelligent and positive to a discussion on whether the liberal party is stupid for still thinking gun-free zones work after Pulse, Ohio or not.
You're standing on the side of libtards when you insult me for not liking libtards. You're acting like a libtard when you attack me and my new best friend instead of any of the points we bring up. You're going to stop acting like, and being, a libtard. And you're going to stop projecting.
Why?
Because if you can do that, I'll show you a really funny meme. Doesn't that sound nice? You act like an adult, and I reward you with a really nice meme.
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When ever you're ready to come up with an argument buddy, I'll be here.
Cliffy McEdgeface
bitch I will cut you
I could say the same to the opposing side of the gun control argument, to be perfectly honest. I see a ton of emotional appeals from certain posters ("Think of the kids!"-esque string-pulling BS) but nothing that makes me reconsider my position in any meaningful fashion. It's really like the left has fallen out of love with the idea of changing minds and being the ones with reason on their side, and that's pretty damn sad. Used to be the reactionary types who'd use fear as a weapon, and now the Modern Left uses fear in pretty much the same fashion.
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SilverStarApple/Epsilon7
Still Mildly Glowing
What are you talking about, libby? It was your turn to make an argument. And instead of making an argument, you said we're not allowed to criticize the left and neither is anyone else because it's a multi-dimensional thing and also a myth.
You just ripped off truthful things people said about your hate-cult, and yelled them at us, thinking it'd BTFO us as hard as they BTFOd you. Because you don't understand how logic works.
We're judging you for being so childish and petulant and spiteful. You can't "Not an argument" away our looks of disapproval.
Cliffy McEdgeface
bitch I will cut you
The handwringing and shouting over the recent Florida school shooting that gave us the wonderful human being known as David Hogg still bugs me. We had a situation where the FBI was alerted to a potential school shooter and did nothing, then when the shooting was going on the Broward County Sheriff's Office dropped the ball by sitting outside the school with their thumbs up their butts. The laws and officers of the law that were supposed to prevent Cruz from getting firearms and committing a mass murder all utterly failed at every important juncture in this tragedy.
But citizens having guns is bad, only cops should be armed, and we need more gun laws. There is no logic here, you can tie your brain in knots trying to find the logic and you will come up empty handed because there is NONE. Johnny Law screwed the pooch, so John Q. Public needs to give up his firearms. FOR REASONS. It's really hard not to think the worst of these kinds of people - that they're idiotic, willing pawns of an increasingly jackbooted government that salivates at the idea of an unarmed populace wholly dependent upon government agents for protection - but to my credit I just assume they're being emotional dumbshits, a common affliction among human beings. Maybe I need to start viewing them as the enablers of tyranny they are.
But citizens having guns is bad, only cops should be armed, and we need more gun laws. There is no logic here, you can tie your brain in knots trying to find the logic and you will come up empty handed because there is NONE. Johnny Law screwed the pooch, so John Q. Public needs to give up his firearms. FOR REASONS. It's really hard not to think the worst of these kinds of people - that they're idiotic, willing pawns of an increasingly jackbooted government that salivates at the idea of an unarmed populace wholly dependent upon government agents for protection - but to my credit I just assume they're being emotional dumbshits, a common affliction among human beings. Maybe I need to start viewing them as the enablers of tyranny they are.
Nice, you're funny guys. I never said you can't critizise leftism. But as long as you're so confused about what leftism is, I don't see any argument and just scare mongering. Yeah yeah I get it, we are a hate cult, we are antifa, we are BLM we are everything you guys disagree with, we are the people that want to take your guns away and turn the US into a communist dictatorship.
That's EXACTLY what leftism is about ...
That's EXACTLY what leftism is about ...
Cliffy McEdgeface
bitch I will cut you
Sooooo... No True Scotsman, the post? OK.
D
Deleted member 93956
Guest
So you're cool to be held responsible by straw men in your "side"? I really wish I had the same intent as you to conjure equivalents...
For one, "sonehow" you've gone from general reforms often held by liberals (let's not even go over how American liberal politicians are somewhat less defining) to THE LEFT IS CORRUPT AND EVIL AND MIST BE DESTROYED. I think I know who's the one using fallacies here...
For one, "sonehow" you've gone from general reforms often held by liberals (let's not even go over how American liberal politicians are somewhat less defining) to THE LEFT IS CORRUPT AND EVIL AND MIST BE DESTROYED. I think I know who's the one using fallacies here...
Cliffy McEdgeface
bitch I will cut you
Pointing out what the Modern Left is currently in the process of doing and what they are saying is now strawmanning? Come the fuck on. Even if Crni doesn't think any of the horseshit they're doing should fly, he's definitely not the kind of person dictating policy on the Left at the moment. Don't blow smoke up my ass with this "you've got it all wrong" crap. This goes back to when I say the Left has lost the fucking plot. You've let the inmates run the asylum for years now and you get bristly when someone points that out.
show me where I said this, thanks
Can we all take a step back and stop being a bunch of pillocks before I lock this thread? It lasted 100 pages, and while it will never go anywhere, it'd be a shame if I had to close it after such a long time.
Cliffy McEdgeface
bitch I will cut you
I'm not exactly sure what it is you expect. Reading through the older pages I'd say we're about on the same level of "discourse" right now as this thread was ever on. This is the epitome of a hot-button issue and the fact that we haven't completely devolved to flinging crap at one another should probably be considered a small miracle of sorts.
Do you care enough to try and offer some specific constructive criticisms here? Seriously.
Then I will ask again:
What exactly is leftism for you?
And please, be specific and give me a definition of yours without pointing fingers screaming "Look! Them crazy guys there burning cars are leftists!" which I find way to vague and wouldn't be more helpfull than screaming "Conservatives are the guys that want to burn abortion clinics!".
What ideology does the Left follow in your opinion? What are their targets and core values for example.
As long as I do not know those questions from you, I see simply no reason to have a further discussion on the topic.
Cliffy McEdgeface
bitch I will cut you
The left is on a sliding scale (as is the right) and I already gave examples, but sure, let's do this
LEFT:
Expansion of wealth redistribution, ranging from on the moderate end things like taxation schemes to on the extreme left things like Socialism and Communism. By contrast, the RIGHT generally wants a reduction of wealth redistribution schemes of all sorts. This has practically zero relevance to the thread topic.
Relaxation or elimination of border controls, either (on the moderate end) by making legal immigration easier or (on the extreme end) the literal abolishment of the concept of borders and even the nation itself. By contrast, the RIGHT generally wants to stiffen border controls, for varying reasons and to varying extents depending on how far down the scale you go. This has only marginal relevance to the thread topic.
Reduction or outright bans of firearms and firearm sales to private citizens. This issue in particular seems to be championed by the Left for no other reason than the Right has decided to apparently champion the opposite. Some members on both sides exhibit clear hypocrisy and want only the "right people" to have access to firearms. These people tend to lie at the extremes of their respective wing. This is more or less the only point of discussion completely relevant to the thread topic.
Government protection of "minority classes". This tends to range from (on the relatively moderate end) simple protections against discrimination in things like access to essential services and hiring, to (approaching the extremes) "Bake the gay wedding cake or else, Mr. Christian Baker" which runs roughshod over an implicit part of the First Amendment and has been unfortunately backed up with what I believe to be faulty court precedent by activist judges, but that's neither here nor there. The right wing gives variable amounts of non-fucks about this issue, ranging from apathy to outright antipathy towards the idea. Relevance to thread topic: nil.
Government regulation of private business. This tends to range from (on the moderate end) wanting a few basic consumer protection laws in place to (at the extreme) full-on Communism. The right is generally gradually more laissez-fairé the further down you go, with possible exceptions being made for odd (and largely extinct) birds like fascism which have a much less laissez-fairé approach than most others who are commonly placed on the political Right. Relevance to thread topic: next to nil.
If there's anything I've missed or overlooked, I'll be happy to opine on it as needed.
Now can we move on?
Good, I don't necessarily agree with everything but that's besides the point, because nothing of what you mentioned requires from people to be authoritarian or violent, yet this is what has been mentioned a few times by now, as like it would be some inherent part of The Left, like the moment you're a leftist you're suddenly turning in to an authoritarian or violent person. Which is also interesting when you consider that extreme right wing violence is much more common in the United States than extreme left wing violence.
There certainly are thugs and nut jobs on the left, no doubts about it, however not everyone who was violent was necessarily motivated by the ideology, or we would certainly have also to talk about the fact how characters like the Las Vegas mass shooter was in favour of Donald Trump and his right wing policy, I am certain you wouldn't agree with the idea that his actions might have been 'motivated' by it. Still, the dangers of beeing killed by a right wing terrorist are higher compared to a left wing terrorist:
What you really have to let down though, is this idea that gun controll or even the bann of all guns, is an inherent leftist idea - a hint, it isn't, most polls show that the strongest advocate of gun regulations are coming from left-leaning liberals. Infact the further you go to the extreme left the more likely might you encounter people who are in favour of gun ownership, since A communist society is characterized by common ownership of the means of production with free access[1][2] to the articles of consumption and is classless and stateless,[3] implying the end of the exploitation of labour. [4][5]) (...). It is basically a society without governments and authority where everyone has access to the resources, I mean how do you want to have gun regulations, without anyone to enforce them? Leftists are often very divided on the debate of gun controll. I quote:
Not to mention the delusional extremists among the leftists who actually are in favour of a (maybe even violent) socialist/communist revolution, usually do not speak against gun regulations, for the very obvious reason that they support an uprising which what surprise, requires weapons. Does this look like a movement that's in favour of banning weapons?
What the situation looks like with gun controll once they are actually in power, is a whole different story, but funnily enough socialist regimes are usually much more militarized then the US society ever was (or will be), I remember that my Mother which grew up in socialist Yugoslavia had military training in school which involved shooting, and Russia has still the tradition of keeping the largest army of reservists which is based on the history of the Soviet Union and their experiences from WW2. Would a society that fears weapons do that? Of course it's true, any socialist dictatorship for the most part abolished private ownership of fire arms.
And here again, even with the risk that you'll take that as 'attack' again, but you're having simply some very grave missconceptions about the left and the principles behind it. When people say, well the Sovietunion took the guns, Mao in China took the guns etc. they often forget that those regimes havn't been communist societies, but socialist dictatorships. What ever if communism can work in real live, has yet to be seen - most probably not though as it's simply an utopian dream.
This is why I said that your idea of Leftism is somewhat laughable because it's way to generalizing. Take me for example, I am actually in favour of gun rights, I am just not in favour of unlimited gun rights, for the same reason that I don't want everyone to operate nuclear power plants or having access to hazardeous materials. But I wouldn't mind if everyone had the same gun rights like Switzerland for example. You're simply coufusing leftists on many points with liberals.
White supremacists in the United States killed more than twice as many people in 2017 as they did the year before, and were responsible for far more murders than domestic Islamic extremists, helping make 2017 the fifth deadliest year on record for extremist violence in America, a new report states.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...port_us_5a5f59b0e4b0ee2ff32c4bea?guccounter=1
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...port_us_5a5f59b0e4b0ee2ff32c4bea?guccounter=1
There certainly are thugs and nut jobs on the left, no doubts about it, however not everyone who was violent was necessarily motivated by the ideology, or we would certainly have also to talk about the fact how characters like the Las Vegas mass shooter was in favour of Donald Trump and his right wing policy, I am certain you wouldn't agree with the idea that his actions might have been 'motivated' by it. Still, the dangers of beeing killed by a right wing terrorist are higher compared to a left wing terrorist:
Terrorists inspired by Nationalist and Right Wing ideology have killed about 10 times as many people as Left Wing terrorists since 1992. Terrorists with unknown or other motivations were the least deadly. Islamists swamped them all.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realsp...n-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil/#103626981e74
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realsp...n-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil/#103626981e74
What you really have to let down though, is this idea that gun controll or even the bann of all guns, is an inherent leftist idea - a hint, it isn't, most polls show that the strongest advocate of gun regulations are coming from left-leaning liberals. Infact the further you go to the extreme left the more likely might you encounter people who are in favour of gun ownership, since A communist society is characterized by common ownership of the means of production with free access[1][2] to the articles of consumption and is classless and stateless,[3] implying the end of the exploitation of labour. [4][5]) (...). It is basically a society without governments and authority where everyone has access to the resources, I mean how do you want to have gun regulations, without anyone to enforce them? Leftists are often very divided on the debate of gun controll. I quote:
Nearly every time I’ve seen the topic of gun control brought up in a leftist space the debate has raged on endlessly about the proper way for leftists to view and deal with the issue of private gun ownership.
https://www.non-compete.com/what-do-modern-communists-think-about-gun-control/
https://www.non-compete.com/what-do-modern-communists-think-about-gun-control/
Not to mention the delusional extremists among the leftists who actually are in favour of a (maybe even violent) socialist/communist revolution, usually do not speak against gun regulations, for the very obvious reason that they support an uprising which what surprise, requires weapons. Does this look like a movement that's in favour of banning weapons?
What the situation looks like with gun controll once they are actually in power, is a whole different story, but funnily enough socialist regimes are usually much more militarized then the US society ever was (or will be), I remember that my Mother which grew up in socialist Yugoslavia had military training in school which involved shooting, and Russia has still the tradition of keeping the largest army of reservists which is based on the history of the Soviet Union and their experiences from WW2. Would a society that fears weapons do that? Of course it's true, any socialist dictatorship for the most part abolished private ownership of fire arms.
And here again, even with the risk that you'll take that as 'attack' again, but you're having simply some very grave missconceptions about the left and the principles behind it. When people say, well the Sovietunion took the guns, Mao in China took the guns etc. they often forget that those regimes havn't been communist societies, but socialist dictatorships. What ever if communism can work in real live, has yet to be seen - most probably not though as it's simply an utopian dream.
This is why I said that your idea of Leftism is somewhat laughable because it's way to generalizing. Take me for example, I am actually in favour of gun rights, I am just not in favour of unlimited gun rights, for the same reason that I don't want everyone to operate nuclear power plants or having access to hazardeous materials. But I wouldn't mind if everyone had the same gun rights like Switzerland for example. You're simply coufusing leftists on many points with liberals.
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Cliffy McEdgeface
bitch I will cut you
I didn't include anything about authoritarianism or its opposite in that rundown because that is a different axis altogether. There are authoritarians and libertarians on both left and right. You asked specifically about the left, not the authoritarian left or the libertarian left.
Regardless, as far as I'm concerned short of WMD-scale shit there should be the absolute minimum of hurdles involved to bear arms. If you want to have a fucking MBT for some reason I don't particularly care (you still need a crew and the operating costs on those things are fucking prohibitive anyway). The whole point of the Second was to give citizenry a fighting chance if shit reaches the point where the government absolutely needs to be deposed. The only real thing keeping other parts of the Bill of Rights safe is the implicit threat that Johnny Jackboots will be copping a few slugs if he tries anything funny. They aren't God-Given Rights because God sure as fuck doesn't swoop down and smite motherfuckers when they commit violations. They are "fuck with me and I'll end you" rights. As it is the US gov't fucks with the 4th Amendment basically whenever it feels like it, and that's something that really needs to be addressed with either words or (eventually, if they keep it up and someone bothers to take serious issue) lead.
Regardless, as far as I'm concerned short of WMD-scale shit there should be the absolute minimum of hurdles involved to bear arms. If you want to have a fucking MBT for some reason I don't particularly care (you still need a crew and the operating costs on those things are fucking prohibitive anyway). The whole point of the Second was to give citizenry a fighting chance if shit reaches the point where the government absolutely needs to be deposed. The only real thing keeping other parts of the Bill of Rights safe is the implicit threat that Johnny Jackboots will be copping a few slugs if he tries anything funny. They aren't God-Given Rights because God sure as fuck doesn't swoop down and smite motherfuckers when they commit violations. They are "fuck with me and I'll end you" rights. As it is the US gov't fucks with the 4th Amendment basically whenever it feels like it, and that's something that really needs to be addressed with either words or (eventually, if they keep it up and someone bothers to take serious issue) lead.