BigGuyCIA
Yer fond of me Lobster!
In U.S. markets (consumer sales), yes. I can't find anything else internationally except that of the 34% weapon sales that the U.S. government conducts, 18% of it goes to Saudi Arabia.
Gun Control
- Thread starter Throatpunch
- Start date
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
And the Saudis are so loving and nice folks, constantly targeting and wiping out school busses full of kids with USA made missiles in Yemen etc. Nice people. I understand why USA is doing business with them.
BigGuyCIA
Yer fond of me Lobster!
Shifting goalposts from gun control to missile control. Can't win with you Mutant.
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
It's the same industry.
Cliffy McEdgeface
bitch I will cut you
Really? Can't remember the last time I bought a gun from Raytheon or Lockheed-Martin.
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
Good. Too bad the Saudi's can't say the same.
TheGM
The voice of reason
Indeed, I can hop on down to the good ol' wally world and buy myself a Ruger Brand ICBM.
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
Whatever helps you keep those blinders on about the results of gun violence and gun trade by USA.
Cliffy McEdgeface
bitch I will cut you
I shouldn't even dignify this with a response, but you do realize some of the most vaunted names in firearms manufacturing are from Finland right? Valmet? SAKO? The Jatimatic?
Get off your high horse. I don't think it likes you very much.
TheGM
The voice of reason
Oh no American Gun violence, the ever decreasing statistic that sees it's news coverage increase because it fits the narrative of certain political groups,whatever will we do. Oh no International Weapons selling which somehow only becomes a reprehensible act when America does it because nobody cares if the Missile was French. I got to admit Sclaper, you've erased the line between trolling and stupid and I don't think it is ever coming back.
Cimmerian Nights
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
It takes a special kind of person to gloat over that and exploit it for virtue signalling material.
CaptBob
First time out of the vault
We try to sell to the good guys, black Christians in Sudan could probably use a few, with their government arming radical militia to exterminate them. But that would just increase the violence, huh. You think better unarmed people get chopped up with machetes, then at least no one got hurt by a GUN. Point being there are worse things than availability of weapons sometimes. It can give political power to common people. It's when it's in the hands of some only like was it Haiti where only 200 armed men took over the whole country with some WW2 leftover rifles not too long ago(maybe I'm old)? Hardly any arms in the whole country, so it fell without resistance.
And sorry I didn't see the edit button on the mobile version before I see it on desk top version now
And sorry I didn't see the edit button on the mobile version before I see it on desk top version now
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GonZo_626
Well Shit!
Those fin's do make some great guns. also you guys forgot Sig and Glock as not American companies either (3 of the top 4 hand gun manufacturers in the US are not American) as for the US gun saturation affecting other countries, those would be pretty much only 2. Mexico and Canada, as a Canadian a good portion of our crime guns come from the US. And hell Mexico only has one gun store, located in a military base, in the whole country. Yet somehow firearms not even sold in the US are used there.... gun control, so effective.
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
Where is the violence located in Mexico though? And also, how many gun companies are there in Mexico?
Also,
Also,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_of_firearms_into_Mexico#Sources_of_weapons
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GonZo_626
Well Shit!
Where is the violence located in Mexico though? And also, how many gun companies are there in Mexico?
Also,
Also,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_of_firearms_into_Mexico#Sources_of_weapons
Quite familiar how the most guarded border in the world in very porous and allows much to cross both ways. Also the US Gov has proven they are useless at stopping this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal
So even sting operations to stop this did not work with firearms that were supposed to be tracked. This is just proof that those who want to use firearms illegally find a way to get them. How else do fully-automatic AK's find there way into European criminal/terrorist hands. The point is you can only do so much to stop this activity and outright bans do not stop firearms from making there way into the wrong hands.
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
Funny how US law enforcement officials are all inefficient when it comes to stopping gun runners.
Also, gun violence isn't really a big issue in Europe mostly because we have smarter gun laws than in the USA. Not a perfect situation but better than little to no laws at all or enforced at all (USA).
Also, gun violence isn't really a big issue in Europe mostly because we have smarter gun laws than in the USA. Not a perfect situation but better than little to no laws at all or enforced at all (USA).
That's not the whole truth. Our laws aren't really all that much smarter, and while they're probably being more strictly enforced, the main differences are in history and culture. There was no frontier culture in Europe, and most countries have been monarchies of some form for the most time. Guns have been kept out of circulation in civilian hands for most of the time for good reason, and this led to a culture that generally doesn't consider owning guns to be a right but a privilege, that associates guns more with military than with personal freedom, and that all in all relies more on the respective states to protect its citizens rather than citizens protecting themselves. That means there are way fewer guns in circulation, making gun control more efficient since it's not that easy to get a firearm illegally.
The exception to all this is Switzerland, of course, but they also have less of a frontier culture and more of a communal culture.
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
Umm...got proof?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation#Comparison
If you compare, say, US and UK, the difference in legislation is clear. Also you can make other comparisons such as Finland and Estonia (Estonia has very high gun violence/homicide figures) etc.
Sure, the laws are obviously different, but that doesn't mean the causality is purely with the law and the execution.
The US suffers from having different laws all over its states, meaning that strict laws in one state don't do much when the surrounding states give you easy access.
Then there's the issue of culture and history, which I think is very important. Even if you established "Oi, got a permit for that letter opener"-style laws in the US it wouldn't solve anything because there are just too many guns around. The social issues that fundamentally cause crime will not be solved by stricter laws.
Comparing Finland and Estonia also requires a look at history. Finland was free to grow, Estonia was held back by the USSR, leading to decreased wealth and more crime. Laws alone don't change much.
MutantScalper
Dogmeat
Well with gun legislation I guess you have the inherent problem of 'proving the positive', meaning how does one show the gun crimes which were stopped with the help of a specific legislation. I'm sure if we were to contact, say, the German police and ask them for proof about cases where they were able to, say, snatch a shipment of illegal weapons specifically because they had the law backing them, then I'm very sure they could site many such cases for you. Would that be enough to convince you, maybe?
Germany hasn't had a particularily high gun violence rate especially for a big country. However, if Germany were to change it's gun laws to be more like those of USA the situation could change very quickly for the worse. You want proof of this? That would require using 'human guinea pigs' and real blood in the streets of Germany, don't think you want to pay that price.
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