Gun Control

Many guns used in crimes are 'saturday night specials', not very durable firearms. Meaning they won't last very long even if maintained well. Also it's not so easy to get guns from the so called black market, if you know how to get them then contact your local cops and let them know.

Hass,

USA isn't the only nation that has had a problem with firearms, look into the history of European and other nations and see how they dealt with it. USA isn't a unique snowflake. Also the logic of "there are already too many illegal guns in circulation in the magical underworld of criminals that we should give up making any laws about guns" is just so incredibly stupid that I'm going to hit you with the Jackie Chan.

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Two feet they come a creepin'
Like a black cat do
And two bodies are layin' naked
A creeper think he got nothin' to lose
So he creeps into this house, yeah
And unlocks the door
And as a man's reaching for his trousers
Shoots him full of thirty-eight holes
Mr. Saturday night special
Got a barrel that's blue and cold
Ain't good for nothin'
But put a man six feet in a hole
Big Jim's been drinkin' whiskey
And playin' poker on a losin' night
And pretty soon ol' Jim starts a thinkin'
Somebody been cheatin' and lyin'
So Big Jim commence to fightin'
I wouldn't tell you no lie
Big Jim done pulled his pistol
Shot his friend right between the eyes
Mr. Saturday night special
Got a barrel that's blue and cold
Ain't good for nothin'
But put a man six feet in a hole
Oh, it's the Saturday night special, for twenty dollars you can buy yourself one too
Hand guns are made for killin'
They ain't no good for nothin' else
And if you like to drink your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why don't we dump 'em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some ol' fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me
Mr. Saturday night special
You got a barrel that's blue and cold
You ain't good for nothin'
But put a man six feet in a hole
Mr. the Saturday night special
And I'd like to tell you what you could do with it
And that's the end of the song


Wow your using a song as proof that most crime guns are Saturday night specials, and yet you own link for them states this.

While Saturday night specials are commonly perceived as inexpensive, and therefore disposable after the commission of a crime, criminal behavior does not always conform to this expectation. A 1985 study of 1,800 incarcerated felons showed that criminals at the time preferred revolvers and other non-semi-automatic firearms over semi-automatic firearms.[11] A change in preferences towards semi-automatic pistols occurred in the early 1990s, coinciding with the arrival of crack cocaine and rise of violent youth gangs.[12]

Nonetheless, three of the top ten types of guns involved in crime (as represented by police trace requests[4] in the US are widely considered to be Saturday night specials; as reported by the ATF in 1993, these included the Raven Arms .25 caliber, Davis P-380 .380 caliber, and Lorcin L 380 .380 caliber.[13] However, the same study showed the most common firearm used in homicides was a large caliber revolver, and no revolvers of any kind appear on the top ten list of traced firearms

They seem to only make up 30% of the top ten crime guns, and are not very common in homicides (maybe because the tiny rounds they fire are not as lethal?). What really happens is that rather normal handguns are sold and resold after being used for many different crimes. Maybe quite watching stupid old crime shows from the states that show no indication they are based on any fact, as this seems to be were you found everything you know.
 
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/t...tes-the-handgun-market-better-sig-sauer-23487

https://www.range365.com/remington-model-870-best-ever#page-4

TBH, there are dozens of sites out there for different types of guns that are durable but there you go.

And again, basic maintenance itself isn't that hard.

Yes? What are you trying to prove? That some guns are durable? Yes some guns are durable. :?

Wow your using a song as proof that most crime guns are Saturday night specials, and yet you own link for them states this.

While Saturday night specials are commonly perceived as inexpensive, and therefore disposable after the commission of a crime, criminal behavior does not always conform to this expectation. A 1985 study of 1,800 incarcerated felons showed that criminals at the time preferred revolvers and other non-semi-automatic firearms over semi-automatic firearms.[11] A change in preferences towards semi-automatic pistols occurred in the early 1990s, coinciding with the arrival of crack cocaine and rise of violent youth gangs.[12]

Nonetheless, three of the top ten types of guns involved in crime (as represented by police trace requests[4] in the US are widely considered to be Saturday night specials; as reported by the ATF in 1993, these included the Raven Arms .25 caliber, Davis P-380 .380 caliber, and Lorcin L 380 .380 caliber.[13] However, the same study showed the most common firearm used in homicides was a large caliber revolver, and no revolvers of any kind appear on the top ten list of traced firearms

They seem to only make up 30% of the top ten crime guns, and are not very common in homicides (maybe because the tiny rounds they fire are not as lethal?). What really happens is that rather normal handguns are sold and resold after being used for many different crimes. Maybe quite watching stupid old crime shows from the states that show no indication they are based on any fact, as this seems to be were you found everything you know.

Again, what are you trying to prove? Yes in the top ten there are three saturday night specials. That is quite a lot, really, where as you guys claimed that all the weapons used by US criminals are all AK-level durable firearms. So...yea. :confused:
 
Yes? What are you trying to prove? That some guns are durable? Yes some guns are durable. :?



Again, what are you trying to prove? Yes in the top ten there are three saturday night specials. That is quite a lot, really, where as you guys claimed that all the weapons used by US criminals are all AK-level durable firearms. So...yea. :confused:

Well first the AK does not have some mystical level of durability, it is above average yes due to it being simple as fuck, I am sure you have played with the better finnish versions valmet makes, that is an actual mystical level of durability. That being said even my cheap ass norinco AR has a life of 6000 rounds at least before just the barrel wears. Yes something may happen but I have around 3000 rounds into it now with zero ftf's or in fact anything going wrong. What everyone on here has been trying to tell you and you are too ignorant to understand is that even cheap guns are quite durable (except you hi-point....) and will fire many thousands of rounds with only basic maintenance. Hell you cannot find a much cheaper pump-shotgun then a maverick 88, and those things take unheard of levels of punishment and abuse and just keep going.
 
MutantScalper said:
You guys have like, proof of that? An AK would stay operational for decades even but that's not true of most other weapons.

So it is not only 'AKs', being more durable. There are many durable weapons out there.
 
So a lot of gun owners agree. Not everyone wants a gun cause it is 'cool'. I like military style rifles because it is not only fun to shoot but it is aesthetically pleasing.
 
Some good points in that video Crni. I would tend to agree that masculinity, the death of it, and some people replacing it with guns is true somewhat. A bit of an oversimplification but it is not the guns fault, its ours as people.
I guess he's aware about it, but there is only so much you can squeze in 8 min without making it inaccessible, lets be honest most people don't watch more than 10 min per video on youtube.

The question now is just, how do you change the issue of false masculinity with weapons?
 
Vote to reduce military spending, universal healthcare (save trillions), fund research involving mental healthcare.
 
I guess he's aware about it, but there is only so much you can squeze in 8 min without making it inaccessible, lets be honest most people don't watch more than 10 min per video on youtube.

The question now is just, how do you change the issue of false masculinity with weapons?

Well unfortunately it may mean undoing some of the things we have been teaching boys over the last 30 years or more. This is not a short term thing and has been sliding down more as time goes on. I think we need to give up some of that childhood safety in schools, or while playing. When boys act like boys now we mostly punish them, and I am not talking about sexual things. We as men are inherently dangerous, we are attracted to dangerous things, and we need to encourage that. When we look at the shootings in the western world they are unfortunately a mostly urban problem, mostly. We need to encourage the healthy outlets of our dangerous nature with sports and activities. We need parental involvement in kids lives, both parents. It is nor surprise to me that with the rising tide of single mothers you seem to have a correlation with crime rates rising 15-20 years later. You have had a large percentage of the population grow up without a male role model, or one who didn't have one themselves.

We need to stop listening/watching things that push the wrong message as well, and this is where my message will find the hate, movies, video games, music. While none of those things will necessarily present the wrong message, at the wrong age or without context some will. 10 year old kids should not be playing GTA or Fallout. I saw a study once and first person shooters meant for adults(HALO, Gears) were mostly played by kids, meanwhile games like splaatoon were played by adults but meant for kids. How many of you have gone to see a Marvel movie and noticed kids everywhere, meanwhile people are getting shot and blown up (I saw a 6 year old at Deadpool). And then Rap (most prevalent/popular for this) music, which has a large portion of it glorifying treating women like shit, and shooting others to protect yourself. How many rappers die to gun violence every year? How can we as a society and culture keep allowing our kids to see things they should not? At what point should we punish the parent/s for how they decided to raise there child?

We have to change our culture on some level. We are all about accepting different cultures and people, but some cultures should not have been allowed to progress, and we should have been more accepting of some that we have kicked to the side.
 
That is the same thing as trying to tell children not to glorify war. Ever since the dawn of time, people have glorified war and weapons.

Some people do feel manlier with a gun but it doesn't necessarily correlate into that same man using it to kill innocent people.

Just tell people that guns are not fucking toys and to have a healthy and proper respect for them. Make sure those mentally un-balanced folks can't get access to guns. It really isn't all that hard.

Again, the issue here is we have mentally broken individuals who believe that is ok to murder other folks because their fucking feelings were hurt. It is called learning to handle what life throws at you, including being called names.
 
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Again, the issue here is we have mentally broken individuals who believe that is ok to murder other folks because their fucking feelings were hurt. It is called learning to handle what life throws at you, including being called names.

Yeah but as a society we are not giving men the tools to deal with this shit. Look at the Florida school shooter, loner who had no parents, were the fuck is he learning how to deal with shit? He didn't and so he ended up as a mentally deranged fucktard who shot a bunch of his ex-classmates. It is not as easy as telling them to toughin' up unfortunately.
 
Yeah but as a society we are not giving men the tools to deal with this shit. Look at the Florida school shooter, loner who had no parents, were the fuck is he learning how to deal with shit? He didn't and so he ended up as a mentally deranged fucktard who shot a bunch of his ex-classmates. It is not as easy as telling them to toughin' up unfortunately.

the funniest thing ever is when people realize that kids like Cruz have been so effectively ostracized, isolated and alienated from society by peers and adults alike, they VERY BRIEFLY have to entertain uncomfortable notions like the idea that people generally make their own fucking problems and sometimes those problems end up coming to school with a weapon and killing them

and then they shake it off and go back to beating the GUN CONTROL NAO drum because to extrapolate any further on the REAL PROBLEM would mean doing some serious fucking soul-searching and introspection and that's uncomfortable

I wouldn't go so far as to say Parkland deserved it, but mass murderers generally do not just fall out of the fucking sky
 
Well unfortunately it may mean undoing some of the things we have been teaching boys over the last 30 years or more. This is not a short term thing and has been sliding down more as time goes on. I think we need to give up some of that childhood safety in schools, or while playing. When boys act like boys now we mostly punish them, and I am not talking about sexual things. We as men are inherently dangerous, we are attracted to dangerous things, and we need to encourage that. When we look at the shootings in the western world they are unfortunately a mostly urban problem, mostly. We need to encourage the healthy outlets of our dangerous nature with sports and activities. We need parental involvement in kids lives, both parents. It is nor surprise to me that with the rising tide of single mothers you seem to have a correlation with crime rates rising 15-20 years later. You have had a large percentage of the population grow up without a male role model, or one who didn't have one themselves.
As an aspriring child educator I do the education system is playing its part, but I would believe the root of the issue, goes much deeper than that. I quote :

>>"Mental illness cannot be fixed by parents or caretakers alone either because they are often not financially equipped to do so nor trained to deal with it," said Susanne Babbel, PhD, a trauma therapist. "Children and teenagers with mental illness often need a team of providers but many times do not receive adequate support, nor does the parent or caretaker who tries to meet their child's needs."<<

And this is something I actually experienced a few times as well and which is one of the really frustrating parts of my job, when children and teenagers with issues simply didn't get the support they eventually needed. Which leads to another issue, teenagers and children experience an immense social preasure today and partiuclarly those teenagers that are sensitive. I quote:

>>The majority of the attackers had difficulty dealing with loss or personal failures, or felt bullied, persecuted or injured by others. Many also attempted suicide.<<

If we leave out the kind of shooters with serious mental issues right from birth - the ones that tortured animals at a young age for fun, then we come to something that's concerning behaviour which has developed over time, a resentment and hatetred for society, the surrounding world. We're not spending enough time listening and actually asking what the children need, particularly the quiet ones, the ones that are frustrated and experiencing panic/angst.

I am not an expert (yet), but in my humble opinion a hell of a lot of issues could be solved, if we actually listened more to our children, their needs and what they want as teenagers. But this might require to change our whole education system and the way we see children in general - which we should do anyway. Grades and evaluations leading only to extrinsic motivations would have to be abandonded entirely, classes and lessons would have to be a lot more flexible, the school a lot more personalised with the individual strength of the pupil in mind. Why do we still force someone interested in math to learn subjects he hates and most probably doesn't need anyway. The target should be to teach learning and not subjects, so children and teenagers develop instrinsic motivations where learning something new and figuring something out becomes the reward - which every child actually posses right from the day it's born I am currently supervising children between the age of 1 and 3, and none of them isn't curious or not eager to learn. But we manged to build a system that's perfect in doing one thing, beating the natural 'curiosity' every human has, out of the child. And we do this, because we still believe humans and children in particular, would have to fit in to schedules and where efficiency and standardisation is key. We're not educating people we're conditioning them. But we're becoming post industrial societies where this is actually harming us since we're still forcing children trough an educational system that's build for industrial socieites.

To be honest, I am not surprised that some children/teenagers take some weapons to let out their frustration.

That is the same thing as trying to tell children not to glorify war. Ever since the dawn of time, people have glorified war and weapons.

Some people do feel manlier with a gun but it doesn't necessarily correlate into that same man using it to kill innocent people.

Just tell people that guns are not fucking toys and to have a healthy and proper respect for them. Make sure those mentally un-balanced folks can't get access to guns. It really isn't all that hard.

Again, the issue here is we have mentally broken individuals who believe that is ok to murder other folks because their fucking feelings were hurt. It is called learning to handle what life throws at you, including being called names.

Nuances. It's about the nuances. No one said those things are inherently evil or the cause of every viollent school shooting or that it's something that should be outright banned.

It's like with porn really.

Watching porn and drinking alcohol alone doesn't turn you in to a viollent rapist, but that still doesn't mean you would be suddenly fine with your 3 year old child watch it every day while drinking.
 
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Well Crni, in some ways I agree and some I don't. I am unsure how exactly the education system works in your part of the world or class sizes and such, but I see one of the problems with the education system as being overcrowding of schools. With each teacher having less individual time for students it does not help. Also at some level I disagree about the teaching method as I think the method of teaching you are portraying while helping kids "deal" with school you are effectively kicking the can down the road. Without testing and a basis of minimum education we would leave these kids as underperforming adults who do not have the tools to deal with the world out of school. Learning to succeed is just as important as learning to lose. Our enabling of every child to be a winner will not teach them to be a good loser when there boss is yelling at them for fucking something up, and could lead to an even more entitled generation. We have to give people not only the tools to succeed but the tools to learn from there failure and find success. This is part of the safety net of schools, participation awards, incomplete instead of failure, and the general death of masculinity in schools. Oh that child is hyper and keeps staring outside, lets dope him up so he pays attention. Meanwhile he just wants to play soccer, and the teacher in reality has no time to find a way to make the lesson engaging for him.
 
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I-i don't even...just.

see, the real reason you don't want your kids to drink and watch porn is because those young minds turn into VIOLENT RAPIST minds when exposed to sluts and booze

not because, you know, exposing kids to hardcore sexual content and mind-altering chemicals is a good way to end up causing them severe distress, rob them of the innocence so precious to developing minds, and cause them to have a horrifically distorted view of interpersonal relationships because you did the "maturity" equivalent of trying to force a kindergartener to parse fucking calculus

but really, who cares about the effect it has on the KID, we need to worry about what those little monsters are going to do to your precious society

"Aspiring child educator". I weep for the future.

And you know, here's the thing with the left - they systematically DESTROY parents' ability to effectively and safely raise productive members of society, demand that parents feed their children into a progressive brainwashing machine/meatgrinder filled to the brim with people who absolutely do not have the best interests of your child in mind, and have the gall to say "Well, why did you expect us to raise your little monsters for you, parents? Sheesh. Get some better parenting skills!" See, It Takes A Village, but don't expect said village to bear any responsibility when the kid ends up fucked up. That's all on YOU, parents.
 
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Gonzo

So that kid had NOBODY in his life, not one single soul to teach him right from wrong?

Asking society to make sweeping changes all because a few deranged folks is counter-productive.

I can't play violent games because some crazy dude might get the wrong idea.

I can't watch The Expendables because some deranged kid doesn't have anyone to teach him.

That is just asinine.

And in regards to education, GREAT point.

This is what our euro brethren do not understand. Smaller population = SMALLER class sizes. This usually equates to better education. There is a huge difference between nordic countries and the U.S., in regards to population.
 
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Gonzo

So that kid had NOBODY in his life, not one single soul to teach him right from wrong?

Asking society to make sweeping changes all because a few deranged folks is counter-productive.

I can't play violent games because some crazy dude might get the wrong idea.

I can't watch The Expendables because some deranged kid doesn't have anyone to teach him.

That is just asinine.

Babies can't chew steak. Therefore no one gets steak anymore.

It all goes back to the left's obsession with equality of outcome. They would rather every single living being be equally fucking miserable/disenfranchised/dead than some be happy and others not, regardless of how they got there

This directly ties into their gun control stance (among other things, obviously). It's why the left is completely okay with divesting law-abiding citizens of the right to bear arms when it's a small percentage of absolute chucklefucks that drive up gun crime statistics. The criminals don't even really enter their equation - all they know is that THEY can't handle having firearms themselves for one reason or another (skurry babykillers with the thing that goes up oh noes), so NO ONE ELSE should have them.

Fact of the matter is that the left really has no fucking idea what to do about criminals with guns. Many of the people who push HARDEST for gun control live in places where you can absolutely get away with never owning one for self-defense, so it's not really "their problem" anyway, as they see it.
 
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