Switzerland seems to have a healthy culture in that regard. Much less fetishization of guns and more viewing them as tools, necessary, but dangerous and demanding of respect and caution.
Gun Control
- Thread starter Throatpunch
- Start date
Exactly. We in America see handguns as part of our national identity. Problem is, when you treat a tool made only for killing as a venerable cultural object in that regard, you open yourself up for violence and crime.
Another problem is obviously poverty, but also, as we’ve touched upon, mental illness. We treat those who are ill with disdain and improper care, then wonder “oh how could this tragedy happen” when they hurt or kill someone. I fucking wonder.
Another problem is obviously poverty, but also, as we’ve touched upon, mental illness. We treat those who are ill with disdain and improper care, then wonder “oh how could this tragedy happen” when they hurt or kill someone. I fucking wonder.
TheGM
The voice of reason
Right now the only major safety courses I'm aware of are from the NRA, which as this topic has shown people think are the literal Devil who wants to kill all of the babies and the Civilian Marksmanship Program, who as a government agency don't really advertise that fact.
Well isn't military service there mandatory? we got rid of conscription back in the 60's, though I have heard some wish to bring it back. And sure Switzerland if far more racial homogeneous but that has nothing to with anything because nobody wants to look like a racist.
Honestly the whole crime rate is over hyped and over sold by fear merchants and click baiters. The crime rate has been dropping for years and years, sure decades ago it was pretty bad(see NYC time square circa the 1970's) but you wouldn't know that by watching American Media since they want you think it is World War 3 outside. That is a big difference between the US and the rest of the world people don't bring up. American Media exists to scare the living shit out of you. European media exits to convince you of everything is alright and everything will be fine even though the house is on fire. Even how crime is reported is different. Say a body found in the park with a Axe buried deep in it's forehead. in the US that is a considered a murder victim, the UK will only say that if somebody gets convicted for murder. 4 people get shot in the US that is called mass shooting, 4 people need to die to be called the same in Australia IIRC.
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Deleted member 53669
Guest
Yes military service is mandatory.
Which I think is fine if it's done correctly. Not everyone is special forces. It also prevents you from getting into those pesky "Endless Proxy Wars." when everyone has to go. It also socializes the population, promotes mental and physical health, as well provides high-school level education for all citizens.
It's not the same as a "Draft". We in the U.S. had a draft, where you weren't required to enlist until the military called upon you. Switzerland has mandatory conscription after high-school, which is much different.
Which I think is fine if it's done correctly. Not everyone is special forces. It also prevents you from getting into those pesky "Endless Proxy Wars." when everyone has to go. It also socializes the population, promotes mental and physical health, as well provides high-school level education for all citizens.
It's not the same as a "Draft". We in the U.S. had a draft, where you weren't required to enlist until the military called upon you. Switzerland has mandatory conscription after high-school, which is much different.
DarkCorp
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I think the biggest obstacle for change in the states is lack of moderation. We do not need UHC or UBS to invest more into mental health and drug treatment programs. Just like I can be for closing loopholes at gun shows and pro firearms training while being against scurry look gun bans and silly attachment bans.
SilverStarApple/Epsilon7
Still Mildly Glowing
Ah, the classic "Concern Troll" method of personally attacking someone. "Hey guys I swear I'm on your side, but you bad and you wrong and i have concerns about how you act! I sweeear I'm on your side though and believe what you believe, so listen to what I say!"
It's been a while since someone has lied to me and lied about what I say while pretending I'm worse than what I oppose.
It reminds me of that time I was on an Atheist forum, and some former-Muslim now-atheist friend of mine was talking about things that make Islam an awful religion. He brought up how the Islamic bible, the "Quran", says to commit terrorism and raid trading caravans like the Raiders from Fallout and diddle kids. Also mocked how the Quran says "The sun sets on earth in a muddy bog somewhere". A so-called Atheist with a Forum Signature full of anti-christian quotes decided to play the "I don't like Islam either but you're mean and wrong and poopy mouth shitty poop! Your shitty arguments are poop!" card.
Really, what's with the scatological fascination you lot have? Poopy this, shitty that. Farty this, doodoo that. I don't blink when Marxists call me a Nazi for not supporting Karl Marx. Do you honestly think I'd be bothered by some screechy lunatic yelling "U have shitty opinions!!!!" in my face?
The things Islam says about Jews, Christians, and Atheists (See the Quran for examples) are worse than the things Christians and Atheists say about the idiocy of the Islamic faith.
The things Liberals say about Conservatives (Remember Maxine Walters calling for more hate crimes against conservatives?) are worse than the things Conservatives say about Liberals (calling them crazy and explaining why they're wrong and why their "utopianism" doesn't work).
I mention that former-Muslim friend of mine for a reason. See, he was raised in an Islamic household where Islam is the norm. He used to spend all his time in circlejerks and echo chambers where Islam is the norm, loving Islam is the norm, and criticizing Islam is forbidden. He spent his time in places where supporting Islam was normal and speaking out against Islam got you insulted and mocked and banned. If he wasn't exposed to channels like the Apostate Prophet and its insightful, truthful, and funny videos on the absurdity of the Islamic faith and its many contradictions, he would have never noticed the holes in the religion he was raised to believe. He used to think all religions were as bad as his, but if he never saw things like this, he would have never realized that Islam is unique in its awfulness. Mosques don't get bombed by non-Muslims during Ramadan, Christians don't bomb Mormons during Easter, and Atheists don't bomb fast food joints on Earth Day. Islam is special and more deserving of more criticism than the other religions out there. Many other religions are pretty silly too, and many other religions say violent things, but Islam is the worst one in both respects.
If you really oppose Marxism, you won't have your delicate sensibilities harmed by criticism of Marxism.
If you really support gun rights, you won't have your delicate sensibilities harmed by criticism of gun-grabbers.
You have to specify that you like gun rights because your actions (attacking me and lying about what I say) don't support that.
People who want you raped don't deserve your respect. They aren't entitled to it. They have to earn it, by getting over their pro-rape stance and seeing what's wrong with it.
People who want you disarmed don't deserve your respect. They aren't entitled to it. They have to earn it, by getting over their pro-disarmament stance and seeing what's wrong with it.
Look at the previous pages in the thread to refresh your memory about the arguments I've made, if you need it. I've formed rational arguments against an irrational and anti-humanist position. I've brought up examples of countries that put gun bans into place and can't prove the gun bans helped, and I've brought up examples of countries that went full leftyfascistcommie after the gun bans.
If Liberals win, you lose your gun rights. Your life gets worse. Don't you understand that? They're committing voter fraud by importing rapefugees from the third world, and buying their loyalty and votes with free shit paid for by the taxpayer's dime, because they know their marxist policies aren't popular with the working class they exploit. I can name countries ruined by the Liberal policies Liberals will never stop supporting. Liberals think that if they get their way, they will create a perfect utopia without scarcity or any crime including thoughtcrime. But in reality, if they win, America will end up worse than Venezuela. Yet I'm here, trying to explain this to everyone, including Liberals who have demonstrated a clear unwillingness to engage in logical and respectful debate. I'm still trying to talk things out with Liberals who giggle and hurr-durr, ignore my points, ignore my arguments, and childishly insult me for thinking they can be saved from the cult that owns them.
Do you really, genuinely think what they do to civilizations isn't as bad as me calling them dumb cunts? Does it really bother you that much when I call Liberals wrong, or explain why Liberals are wrong? Christ, get some fucking perspective. I don't swear often, but nothing's lower than a fake conservative who can't resist backstabbing his country and the values it was founded upon for woke brownie points. At least the Liberals are honest when they gloat like supervillains.
Dude. What did I say earlier?
No more political manifestos. This is a thread for discussing potential restrictions or regulations on gun ownership, and i made it clear that any further derailment will be met with thread bans and warnings. And what do you do? Yes, we all guessed right, another Battlefield Earth length credo about whatever. Stay on topic or get banned from this thread.
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TorontoReign
Guest
All things considered I'm not sure why more people don't actually want mass shootings. People whine and whine about morons, racists, the gays, politicians, brown people, rednecks, etc...but when a few people get shot suddenly they want them back. Oh I am sure there are some good mass shooting victims but most of them are probably horrible people. They come into this world and they shit all over everything. Mostly Bethesda fans. Some of them good people but most should wander around while Postmen unload round after round at their soft tissue. And yes I think it would be hilarious if I get shot and killed after saying this. No that is not likely to happen. Scalper you are a fucking idiot. When you get ejected from The Order I look forward to seeing you sperg out and attack everyone in the room.
Didnt I just tell people to stay on topic and reel in the shitposting? As any good and proper misanthrope I agree that more people should be killed randomly because everyone deserves it probably, but that's not really the topic here.
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TorontoReign
Guest
It's kinda on topic though. I see no reason for gun control in the United States. We already have gun control so any more gun control is out of control. People will kill each other regardless of what law we pass as posted 200 plus pages ago. This thread is a huge waste of time but Europeans (like Scalper) feel the need to huff and puff any time the media reports on some idiot getting killed or some idiot killing some poor old person walking across the street. It's all about virtue signalling who cares the most when nobody really cares and none of the shit will ever impact their lives (statistically speaking nobody here is going to die from gunshot) aside from getting butthurt on the net.
What is my point? I would like people that have argued over this for months to admit they don't really care if these people are getting killed they just want to feel good about their countries decisions and they want to be right.
What is my point? I would like people that have argued over this for months to admit they don't really care if these people are getting killed they just want to feel good about their countries decisions and they want to be right.
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Deleted member 53669
Guest
I think that by the laws of the Klingon Empire that the Vietnamese are the only ones that have the honor to decide.
America isn't great and the younger generations is starting to realize it due to social media giving them easy acces to communicate with "foreigners". I can't and won't identify myself with the white people of America. American apartheid is real. The American white mans shame. Lol I actually really hate America not Americans some of you is allright. But I'd whipe my ass with your flag without hesitation.
In my own opinion only military or law enforcement should have acces to weapons.
In my own opinion only military or law enforcement should have acces to weapons.
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Well, that's certainly an opinion. I'd ask if you had any reasons for it, but that'd go beyond this thread that I'd like to keep more orderly from now on. So anyone thinking about writing a Bible-length sermon about how this guy is wrong or whatever, can it. No further engagement with it, and Tribal, don't post inflammatory shit like that unless it has a proper point.
So you want only police and law enforcement to have access to firearms. That's fine as long as proper democratic structures are in place, but given your opinion that american apartheid is real, I'd think you also believe that the american government is fascist, the police are fascist and corrupt, and that the system is rotten to the core. Doesn't that create a massive power imbalance between the ordinary people and those you probably call "fascist" on a regular basis? In a system of apartheid, wouldn't you want the oppressed to have access to tools which to fight back with?
I mean, you are throwing around words like "apartheid". Sure, words dont actually mean anything to you kids anymore, but if I were to take you seriously on this, aren't you factually on the side of the oppressors here?
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Deleted member 53669
Guest
Those are strong opinions coming from someone who's never had to wager anything.
SilverStarApple/Epsilon7
Still Mildly Glowing
Isn't it strange how that blatant racist hates America and all of its people based on blatantly fallacious and faulty reasoning, yet still thinks they should be unarmed and only America's Enforcers should have access to guns?
It's like hating cops, but also thinking only cops should be allowed to own guns. At the same time. Doublethink. Like someone saying "Fuck America's government, but also America's government should be able to censor and arrest whoever they want".
I'll never understand kids like that who think repeating the "America bad" marxist lies they were taught in high school makes them "Edgy". It makes them ignorant of history. They aren't "Free thinkers", the people who get censored for disagreeing with them are free thinkers. White americans ended the slave trade in Africa that existed for centuries before they showed up, tribes in africa and native american tribes were conquering and enslaving each other and we put a stop to that once we eventually collectively agreed that yes, slavery is bad. If America is bad because it conquered land, guess what? No land originally belonged to anyone, every group conquered their own land at some point and then had it taken by someone else. Bring up anything bad that's ever been done to white Americans now or in the past and ask if they deserve sympathy for that, and the marxist will say "hahaha they deserve that for being weak and letting it happen". Ask if the marxist's Favourite Groups of "Oppwessed People" deserve what happened to them for being weak, and he'll explode. Hatred motivates him, an irrational hatred of white people and their success without any understanding of what made them successful. They're just Useful Idiots who will vote for ANYTHING if they're told it will hurt the people they hate.
By the way, this post (like my previous ones in this thread) exposes obvious hypocrisies in the anti-gunrights mob and their mindset. Hating a government while also thinking it should have absolute power over its people is irrational.
That is relevant to a discussion on whether Liberals should be able to restrict mankind's gun rights a little more this week or not. Nobody cried off-topic when I was insulted for having a brony avatar lmao. (also what's with lefties whining about Fox News sometimes? I don't like fox news either, I'm a Libertarian and fox news is owned by the same megacorps as NBC, CNN, and the rest of them)
Another explanation on why gun rights are good and necessary is also relevant, even though the anti-rights "activists" don't read those. At the best of times, anti-gunrights bans are forced onto countries that don't need them. They barely change anything and can't be proven to improve life in nations that already had declining crime rates. They might even cause a crime rate spike, or contribute to crime rates rising after the ban. On bad days, anti-gunrights bans aid and abet leftyfascist commie tyrants. There is no good reason to ever support gun bans and oppose human rights.
I'm going to bring back an overlooked argument I used a few pages back, I hope that's okay. More people are in this thread, so hopefully someone will be able to say something in response to it instead of simply ignoring it.
If the countries Gun Control Advocates tend to use as examples to promote Gun Control tend to reveal that Gun Control isn't all that effective, what can we learn from the example Gun Control Advocates don't use?
Even if Australia, the UK, and Japan were good examples of gun control laws working (Which they're not), why would that be the end of the story?
Why shouldn't we weigh these examples against National-Socialist Germany, Communist Russia, or Maoist Communist China?
The government banning guns before becoming tyrannical is pretty relevant when you remember that the Constitution was written to guarantee the rights of its citizens, and the second amendment was intended to give people the right to own guns they would need to defend themselves and stop tyrants.
Who would look at history and think their government would do a better job of protecting them if they became MORE weak and helpless? Not someone who should be allowed to make decisions that affect me. If you want to give up your guns, do so. Get a tattoo, try a fad diet, I don't give a shit what you do to yourself. If you want to take my guns, try it yourself and see how well that works out for you, instead of trying to get jackboots to do your oppression for you. The debate over gun laws would be a better and more constructive place without religious nuts whose understanding of the topic begins and ends at "all guns bad. gun bans good. only gun nuts disagree. beep boop calling me a NPC is racist".
Remember, it's not as if there's just a couple of bad governments here and there with strict gun control laws. Literally all of the most horrific and tyrannical governments that have ever existed have had strict gun control laws. Hell, tyrannical governments that existed before guns were invented did the same shit by banning proper weapons! Remember when they had to use nunchuks and other farming tools as weapons in China? You know, because their real weapons had been confiscated by an authoritarian government?
There's a reason why tyrants love ruling over a helpless disarmed populace that can't fight back. You can basically do whatever you want to an unarmed populace.
Venezuela. The country that proved Liberal "utopian" promises only lead to dystopian nightmares. Are you sick of hearing that name yet? It's the country that transformed me from Liberal to Libertarian. Hearing what went on in that country, hearing about the rapefugees in Europe, and the "What emails? I don't know how email servers work! That information doesn't exist and only fucking racists know about it!" Liberal response to Hillary Clinton's illegal private email server, those were what convinced me to leave the left. Now I'm a Libertarian. Free Dread Pirate Roberts!
In 2012, two years before their humanitarian crisis, they banned private gun ownership. As you can probably guess, they didn't get this law passed by saying "We want to make it easier for us to oppress our people". No, they brought out the usual "Muh safety" lie, a lie The BBC helped sell. "We have to improve security!", after all.
Yeah, they improved security. For the politicians! The rich fatcats who eat well while their people starve. They get away with it because they have armed guards and the commoners don't.
The murder rate in Venezuela rose after the gun ban. And because the police are the only ones in Venezuela allowed to own guns, criminals started to target and kill cops to take their guns.
And if it wasn't clear enough that Venezuela's gun control is being weaponized against political opponents of their marxist regime, in April of 2017, Maduro gave 400,000 guns back to private citizens...
But only the ones who pledged their loyalty to him and his commie regime. The ones who "counter-protest" at peaceful protests by throwing rocks and guns at peaceful protestors. The ones who get to ride around with cops and get taken to protests. The ones who get away with shooting at peaceful protestors, while the cops get involved and start breaking limbs if good people fight back and the commies start getting their asses kicked again.
When the Venezuelan Government banned guns, was it because they were secretly planning on oppressing their people?
Honestly? It doesn't matter.
Because it still allowed them to do it.
And that's not just a stain on the credibility of "Gun Control". It's a stain on the credibility of everyone who wants to force it onto others, whether that's bit-by-bit or all at once.
You ever not write papers on this topic?
Well, this is now his second warning to not post unrelated political manifestos. Next one is a thread ban.
@SilverStarApple/Epsilon7 Did you get it? Stop the polispergation. Last warning.
Although, one thing: Nationalsocialist Germany lifted gun control partially in 1938. Of course, they disarmed the Jews and political enemies, but the common german citizen was encouraged to take up arms, culminating in the Volkssturm near the end of WWII. Especially party members and the likes had a much easier time getting themselves rifles.
@SilverStarApple/Epsilon7 Did you get it? Stop the polispergation. Last warning.
Although, one thing: Nationalsocialist Germany lifted gun control partially in 1938. Of course, they disarmed the Jews and political enemies, but the common german citizen was encouraged to take up arms, culminating in the Volkssturm near the end of WWII. Especially party members and the likes had a much easier time getting themselves rifles.
Atomic Postman
Vault Archives Overseer
He literally copy and pasted the bad argument that was already responded to.
Papers tend to have actual citation.
Papers tend to have actual citation.
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Deleted member 53669
Guest
I'm gonna calm you down and say yeah ok, there's people here and in the world that agree with you. You don't have to spit nails and go all balls deep. It's fine though. This thread is ambiguous in its framework here because Gun Control is a political topic yet the trick is not over-politicizing it.
It's pretty easy to not get overly political.
Gun control has questionable benefits at best, and these benefits are not worth cutting back the freedom of individuals. The principle of giving the individual a means to defend himself without relying on the state if he so desires is the fundamental basis of freedom and should be held up above everything else.
See, was that so hard? And I was pretty verbose on that.
Gun control has questionable benefits at best, and these benefits are not worth cutting back the freedom of individuals. The principle of giving the individual a means to defend himself without relying on the state if he so desires is the fundamental basis of freedom and should be held up above everything else.
See, was that so hard? And I was pretty verbose on that.