Gun Control

Gizmojunk said:
Offhand, the eventual need to ask permission to spend your own wealth.
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And who has to do that in Finland? Btw, you can get guns in Finland, we have one of the highest if not the highest gun ownership rates in Europe. We also have one of the highest gun mortality figures in Europe, still well below those of US.

I have seen news stories of [possibly not Finland] school children being indoctrinated into accepting food for a thumb-print in public schools; this will become normal for them. The tag line [excuse] is simply fairness and equality, so that it's not obvious which kids pay for their lunch, and which kids receive financial assistance [IE. a free lunch]; but there is no free lunch, the [social] outcome is worth it to some for the pittance paid for it. In the end they will be a generation that accepts it without question.
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What...? Fingerprinting little kids seems like something that might happen in the black US ghettos where kids are destined for a life of crime, including gun crime.

Seems like you guys really like to discuss the price of cheese.
 
Gizmojunk said:
I have seen news stories of [possibly not Finland] school children being indoctrinated into accepting food for a thumb-print in public schools; this will become normal for them. The tag line [excuse] is simply fairness and equality, so that it's not obvious which kids pay for their lunch, and which kids receive financial assistance [IE. a free lunch]; but there is no free lunch, the [social] outcome is worth it to some for the pittance paid for it. In the end they will be a generation that accepts it without question.
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That sounds questionable. A bit of googling told me that some school cafeterias in US (at least) do have - or are willing to have, at least - that kind of thing in use.

But yeah, it's not used here, that system. School meals are paid from tax money here so such wouldn't serve any purpose.
 
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Crni Vuk said:
That's ok, as long as we acknoledge the fact, that not everyone can be succesfull at all times, regardless of how hard they work. That's simply neither realistic, nor possible. Obviously that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to improve your situation! But it is this general idea or concept, that you just work hard enough and you will be always succesfull, which is causing some problems for people like depressions, among many other reasons of course if they pursue goals that they simply can't achieve. For example, everyone can hit the gym, but not everyone will end up looking like Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson, who's playing the Mountain in Game of Thrones or geting a body that is absolutely perfect. But of course! You're not selling memberships and supplements with that message.

It would be much better if we adopted a more realistic approach, where we teach people how to deal with certain truths. We can't make everyone an academic, a perfect athelete, wealthy, etc. But, with the right decisions and economy, we could at least make sure that 90% of the people have a decent live. That's not an impossible goal. As we can see in Germany and many other European nations.

Don't get me wrong! I LOVE libertarianism, it's a philosophy that I really respect a lot. But it's simply not a realistic concept for a society as a whole, as much as it hurts me to say that.
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I do understand what your saying, things like unemployment insurance is a must, but things like a minimum wage that is enough to live on has been destroying certain parts of society in my opinion. Think of the 40 year old coffee shop/fast food employee. I have to wonder why a 40 year old needs to work at a place like this full time, where I live at one time there were many jobs available to anyone no matter education level but you had to be willing to work hard. These jobs were very high paying and always looking for more employees at the time, but I would still find 40 year olds working at Tim Hortons bitching about how they don't get paid enough. Well of course, you serve coffee and sandwiches, maybe try to improve your life by finding a better job then trying to force everyone else to pay for you. These are jobs that in my opinion again should be filled by high school students getting there first work experience. If those 40 somethings actually tried to improve at sometime maybe they would have been doing better instead of keeping what is a relatively easy job.

I do believe that some people need to get left behind as not all humans are equal, and the only time we are is the day we are born. Now mind you I do understand that sometimes these positions are filled by people who have certain disability's that may prevent them from doing different jobs should get some allowance, but a physically fit person of normal intelligence should not need the nanny state to look after them for anything beyond a short time.

Wow this is off topic.

Back on topic

Black guns matter.
An AR-15 is a semi auto ergonomically correct rifle
The definition of Assault Rifle is selectable fire which means full and semi auto.
Banning any gun from a law abiding person will not affect what somebody who has already chosen to break the law will do.
A person willing to commit suicide will find a way.
 
GonZo_626 said:
Black guns matter.
An AR-15 is a semi auto ergonomically correct rifle
The definition of Assault Rifle is selectable fire which means full and semi auto.
Banning any gun from a law abiding person will not affect what somebody who has already chosen to break the law will do.
A person willing to commit suicide will find a way.
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Actually, the definition of an assault rifle is select fire and an intermediate cartridge. Which is what makes these weapons stand out: They are designed to kill (lightly armored) humans at medium ranges, and nothing else. Battle rifle calibers like 7.62 mm NATO can be used as a hunting weapon for larger game and make sense as a sporting/target shooting round as they're much more powerful than the light, high-velocity 5.56 mm NATO, which just doesn't have enough stopping power for larger game or enough range for proper long range shooting with windy conditions. Assault rifles are weapons designed for war, not for fun. Do you really need these kinds of ballistics and magazine capacities at the range?
But yeah, I agree, it's pointless to ban these. I just wanted to explain some of the reasons why some would want to ban them. Having 20-30 rounds of deadly firepower with light enough recoil for quick follow-up shots makes these much more dangerous for killing sprees than a bolt action rifle or smaller handgun. Or even a semi auto battle rifle, unless the user is properly trained.
 
Hassknecht said:
Actually, the definition of an assault rifle is select fire and an intermediate cartridge. Which is what makes these weapons stand out: They are designed to kill (lightly armored) humans at medium ranges, and nothing else. Battle rifle calibers like 7.62 mm NATO can be used as a hunting weapon for larger game and make sense as a sporting/target shooting round as they're much more powerful than the light, high-velocity 5.56 mm NATO, which just doesn't have enough stopping power for larger game or enough range for proper long range shooting with windy conditions. Assault rifles are weapons designed for war, not for fun. Do you really need these kinds of ballistics and magazine capacities at the range?
But yeah, I agree, it's pointless to ban these. I just wanted to explain some of the reasons why some would want to ban them. Having 20-30 rounds of deadly firepower with light enough recoil for quick follow-up shots makes these much more dangerous for killing sprees than a bolt action rifle or smaller handgun. Or even a semi auto battle rifle, unless the user is properly trained.
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Yes I did not post a full definition. Yes a .223/5.56x45 is a light round with high velocity that can punch through light body armor, this does not make it a more effective weapon off the battlefield though as most people don't wear body armour (hell body armour is illegal where I live). But they are useful for certain hunting practices, hogs, wolves and coyotes. While not big game many .223 hunting rifles are made ex. Ruger mini 14/30. Also at the range having a rifle that fires smaller rounds with less kick helps with certain games ex. 3 gun leagues. Magazine caps have little no effect as there are many videos showing that even a novice can change magazines in no time and criminals just modify them to make them work as they wish.
 
It's not just the fact that it can pentrate body armor, the 7,62 has even more power here. The point is that the 5,56mm with the idea of a shortened cartridge was made primarily for military use, and not for the civilan market. For example, the whole idea behind the Sturmgeweher or MP43/44 was to find a cartridge and weapon that had the advantages of both machine pistols and rifles. The 5,56 is really better suited for the need of the military, where as the 7,62 and even larger amunition like the 7,92 could be used in hunting for example.

I mean the popularity of short cartridges like 5,56 and similar with the military is the fact that it is a very effective round to neutralise human targets. The whole point of automatic firearms for example is based on that princple. If we would just go with hunting and sport, you could as well stop with bolt action rifles, which are still very popular among hunters and in competition/sport.
 
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Crni Vuk said:
It's not just the fact that it can pentrate body armor, the 7,62 has even more power here. The point is that the 5,56mm with the idea of a shortened cartridge was made primarily for military use, and not for the civilan market. For example, the whole idea behind the Sturmgeweher or MP43/44 was to find a cartridge and weapon that had the advantages of both machine pistols and rifles. The 5,56 is really better suited for the need of the military, where as the 7,62 and even larger amunition like the 7,92 could be used in hunting for example.

I mean the popularity of short cartridges like 5,56 and similar with the military is the fact that it is a very effective round to neutralise human targets. The whole point of automatic firearms for example is based on that princple. If we would just go with hunting and sport, you could as well stop with bolt action rifles, which are still very popular among hunters and in competition/sport.
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If as you say there is no use for the 5.56x45 how would you classify the .223 civilian hunting version. They are for all intents almost the same round and any firearm that will fire 5.56 will fire .223 (come on new vegas showed this). My AR is chambered for 5.56 but as 5.56 costs more money and I am not going for perfect shots I use .223 in it a non-military round.

MutantScalper said:
After incidents like Sandy Hook, Orlando, etc. I stopped paying much attention to gun nuts and their 'rationalisations'.
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Hahaha sure compare normal everyday people to people with known issues. Sandy hook guy was deemed mentally unstable and Orlando is a terrorist who should not have been able to buy a firearm (some real dropped balls here).

So yes I love being compared to mass-murders. You do know murder is generally illegal so not something a law-abiding person would do. How about as you are on a computer right now I compare you to a terroist hacker or something, what a computer is designed to interface with other computers is it not?

I like the guns are designed to kill people argument some people use. I liken it to a toaster, your toaster is designed to toast right? So but a piece of bread in your toaster and make it toast without touching anything after putting it in there. You cant without pressing the button, so in essence a toaster does not toast, a person toasts the toast using a toaster. So in essence this will not happen without a human being (or animal in some very laughable story's about gun safety) making the choice to pull the trigger and willfully kill someone. A screwdriver as an argument can be used too. A flat blade screwdriver is designed to screw on certain type of screw, but some of them will work in a phillips head screw, or I am sure everyone has used one to pry on something. So incidentally just because something is designed to do one task does not mean it can not be used for other tasks.
 
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