Gun Control

  • 71% of gunshot victims had previous arrest records.
  • 64% had been convicted of a crime.
  • Each had an average of 11 prior arrests. 1, 2
  • 63% of victims had criminal histories and 73% of that group knew their assailant (twice as often as victims without criminal histories). 3
  • 74% of homicides during the commission of a felony involve guns. 4
Most gun violence is between criminals. This should be the public policy focus.
So it's ok that your homicide rates are only slightly below Somalia, because the people who get shot are ex-convicts?

Maybe we should, IDK, try and work with what holds back homicides in general(As tighter gun control does)
Fact: One study 5of adult offenders living in Chicago or nearby determined that criminals obtain most of their guns through their social network and personal connections. Rarely is the proximate source either direct purchase from a gun store, or even theft. This agrees with other, broader studies of incarcerated felons.
Your main arguement seems to be that criminals will get guns anyway.

If that's the case, how come countries with tighter gun control have lower firearm related death rates.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

If the criminals would get the guns anyway, then surely gun control would have no impact

Also, funny to see the US on similar levels to developing countries.
 
Must've been very hard for you to Ctrl C Ctrl V without even putting its source in the first place! At least put it under a spoiler tag or find one that isn't three pages long, eh? :drunk:

You don't "Debunk" my arguments by pointing at everything I say in a row and yelling "NUH-UH!!!" at each thing in a row.
You don't "Debunk" my arguments by pointing at everything I say in a row and yelling "NUH-UH!!!" at each thing in a row.

This tells me what you're worth. This tells me how intelligent you are. Instead of telling me why you hate and fear guns, you tell me you think I'm wrong. You tell me I make your head hurt, you tell me you think I'm "Dehumanizing" a group of wrong people by debunking their lies, you tell me people have made my points in this thread before(And you've learned nothing from them each time? That isn't really something to brag about), you tell me you think I'm overly jumpy about getting banned, and you insult me by calling me less self-aware than... frogspawn, of all things. Is that supposed to be a Kek reference? You then tell me you don't think I'm credible, and then you call my post a rant and claim my post is like my fingers puking on the keyboard.
Yes. Good synopsis. Let me synopse you then: "The darn liberals are ruining us YO"

You are not civil. You are childish, angry, and dishonest, and this probably isn't the kind of thread you should be posting in. Not if just one post was enough to make you so angry, you felt the need to project your anger onto me.
You must be some kind of shrink master, considering that you base all your knowledge about me and my attiutdue in a SINGLE post that doesn't really even feature my own opinion (done that already here). Now if that ain't projecting...
Why would I be mad? :wtf:

I don't have to respond to anything else in your post besides that, but in the interest of giving more mature people on your side (If any exist) something to respond to, I will.
"Nananana I can't hear anything!" :aiee:

He doesn't have to. In a world without lying liberals slandering the very act of owning a gun, multiple people in a town will have guns, and they will be able to defend themselves from theoretical corrupt government attacks well enough that a far smaller percentage of soldiers would be willing to get mowed down by US Citizens they swore to protect on the US soil they swore to protect on the orders of corrupt government officials. I trust you know your history well enough to know what historically happens after governments disarm their populace.
- In what country must you live to consider the notion that your own government might attack you unprovoked, and that then you would archieve anything. Really. You've got a democratic state, not eing occupied by the fucking Combine.
- Nothing in particulat except annoyed noblemen? I do know what happens when civillians are armed in a pinch though, they'll fuck off to go with their own agendas weakening or being unconclusive towards the "popular" front.

>You're literally the NRA
Nevermind the previous, now THIS is projecting!

You realize that most of the facts, sources and conclusions on your article, which god knows where have you unearthed it from, are from the last century, right? And that a fair amount doesn't precisely favour your case at all...

Nevermind your wonderful lack of mention of your absolutely retarded "point", Courier! :thumbsup:

What happens once a judge says that police is forced to protect all citizens?
That they do it? Not like it's too hard when they've sworn that over and over.

We currently do not have any tool which gives a skinny 1m60 chick a better chance against a 150kg 2m tall attacker.
Maybe not being anorexic and self defense, not like we've heard that having a gun increases "her" strength passively anyway.

Honestly all the "Against a Tyrannical government!" argumenters must really not be familiar with situations when such events happened, and most are actually coups of varying extents of effect. That the standing army stands up AGAINST the state is indeed a case where civillians would be needed to be armed (even if again, some scrappy fucks would hardly do much against organized military), but in that case, the State can just hand out the weapons from the reserves or confiscate the weapon manufacturers. And again, perspective. Would the last Turkey coup have had to be stopped by civillians? Is every decision of the state that you yourself disagree with imply that you have to start some sweet domestic terrorism? Ultimately, is that chance to decide up to whoever who can get themselves a gun?
 
We currently do not have any tool which gives a skinny 1m60 chick a better chance against a 150kg 2m tall attacker. I find it morally repugnant to take this tool away from people, regardless of the fact that that same tool could very well be used for evil. I do not believe in restricting the rights and liberties of the lawful just because of a criminal minority.
Disarming people is unlikely to create a more stable society in itself.
Yes we do... I made a post here in the past about it:
Risewild said:
The thing about guns for defense these days is that we live in an age where non lethal defense tools exist, guns are totally outdated unless by defense you mean try to kill someone.

There are all kinds of things for protection that are specifically designed not to kill: Tasers, Stun Guns and Stun Batons, Pepper Spray, Bean Bag Guns, Pepper Guns that shoot the liquid much farther and there are even pepper spray guns that shoot projectiles with pepper spray inside of them that not only have 10 times the reach of normal pepper spray cans but, hurt when they hit the target and also explode in a pepper spray cloud. And probably many other things I have no idea about since I am not informed about this subject (non lethal defense tools) much.

Then there is also rubber bullets, why are weapons for protection always or almost always loaded with normal lethal ammo? How many people out there that want to protect their home are using rubber bullets instead? I bet there aren't many.
 
Cops are still human. With the same fears and the same weaknesses as all other civilians.
I'm sure a lot of american cops would be on top of the guy in a split second. And I honestly can't guarantee that euro cops would have led to a better outcome. In general, euro cops are far less combative than their american counterparts.

US cops are the ones who think their guns and lethal force is the solution to all problems. Dude is resisting? Shoot. Dude is talking back? Shoot. Dude is waving his arms? Shoot. Dude might have a gun? Shoot. Etc.
 
I don't know how some of you have convinced yourselves that you know what you're talking about. Taking out of touch talking out of your asses to new heights.
 
I don't know how some of you have convinced yourselves that you know what you're talking about. Taking out of touch talking out of your asses to new heights.
14232989_10154191781866773_8678870348821489442_n.jpg
 
Alright folks, this is again getting out of hand.
I don't want to vat this thread after it has been going on for so long, but that might have to happen if you don't be nice to each other, ok?
 
In terms of cops being too trigger happy, we should invent a gun that's part firearm, part taser, and you have to use the taser first before you can use the actual gun part.
 
The usual dense misreading so you can shoehorn in some trite meme. This is some low frequency thought here that there's only two partisan perspectives and no room for nuance or other facets.
I'm ambivalent about the issue of gun control to be honest, it's a complicated issue. I just find the out of touch sermons and moral hysteria to be a bit much.
 
The usual dense misreading so you can shoehorn in some trite meme. This is some low frequency thought here that there's only two partisan perspectives and no room for nuance or other facets.
I'm ambivalent about the issue of gun control to be honest, it's a complicated issue. I just find the out of touch sermons and moral hysteria to be a bit much.

Yes, immoral hysteria is so much better.
 
Alright folks, this is again getting out of hand.
I don't want to vat this thread after it has been going on for so long, but that might have to happen if you don't be nice to each other, ok?
We are approaching ENDGAME. The time for idle mocking is over for one must double down on their feels of smuggness and just spout innocuous memery and claim it is just as valid a statement, neigh it is even better statement for those who disagree are obviously morally questionable.
 
In terms of cops being too trigger happy, we should invent a gun that's part firearm, part taser, and you have to use the taser first before you can use the actual gun part.
PREY (2017)
 
The usual dense misreading so you can shoehorn in some trite meme. This is some low frequency thought here that there's only two partisan perspectives and no room for nuance or other facets.
I'm ambivalent about the issue of gun control to be honest, it's a complicated issue. I just find the out of touch sermons and moral hysteria to be a bit much.
You want to get this topic closed, don't you?
 
Myth: Marriage is a good deterrent to clobbering people to death
View attachment 9609
I'm confused. Are you saying because you can make up an imaginary colloration between two unrelated things, collorations aren't real?

Because that seems to be what you're saying. I'm not going to jump on you for making such a liberal-tier "X isn't real it's all subjective anyone can make everything up" non-argument, because that's probably not what you're saying here... Right?

Oh, god, it's happening. Someone's actually playing the "Everyone thinks they're right so debate don't exits" card at a debate where people are SUPPOSED to GO IN thinking they're right, then debate over facts to find out who is right.

upload_2017-11-2_12-12-17.png
 
I'm confused. Are you saying because you can make up an imaginary colloration between two unrelated things, collorations aren't real?

Because that seems to be what you're saying. I'm not going to jump on you for making such a liberal-tier "X isn't real it's all subjective anyone can make everything up" non-argument, because that's probably not what you're saying here... Right?
No, he's saying that correlation does not mean causality.

Also, everyone calm down, and alsotoo, please don't double post and rather edit your posts.
Actually, things are a bit heated now, I think I'll lock this thread up for a few days. It will not be vatted, but I think it needs to cool down a little.
 
Alright, let's open it up again.
And let's be really calm and civil from now on, ok? No ad hominems, no assumptions that everyone else is stupid, just pure arguments and arguing against arguments.
Both sides have proper arguments in this debate (there's a reason it has never been settled), so how about we focus on those arguments?
Let me start with recapping a few arguments on both sides.

Guns enable people to protect themselves against all sorts of aggressors. They're the ultimate equalizer, or close to it, and they are an important tool for defending yourself against criminals and tyrannic governments.
On the other hand, having guns easily accessible can create an arms race, and a gun won't help much against a mugger or burglar who is equally well armed. Instead, it might more easily result in escalated violence.
Stricter gun laws won't stop criminals from getting guns, though, especially with the huge amount of guns already in circulation in the US. Depriving law-abiding citizens of access to firearms only makes their situation worse.
Thus the black market would have to be dried out very, very fast, and law enforcement would have to be strengthened quite a bit to provide safety for citizens. Additionally, the source of crime needs to be fought, not just the symptoms. However, this would be a significant caesura for the way the US society has worked so far, and would require huge societal changes that would not work well with a large portion of americans.

There are a lot more arguments to be found. In the end I find that they often boil down to "There's no reason to cut back on the freedom of the law-abiding individual just because a minority is criminal" and "For the sake of improving conditions for everyone, a small cut in personal freedom could be acceptable". It's of course more complicated and there are entirely different arguments on both sides, but I think these are the more important arguments.

Personally, I like guns. I find them very interesting and fascinating. But that is not enough for me to go through the hassle to acquire one for myself, as I have no other use for it than maybe shooting it once in a while and assembling and disassembling it for fun. While shooting a gun might be fun, I'd prefer a more physically demanding and interactive shooting sport, like bow shooting. I don't really need a gun for self defense. This is a peaceful city, and I'm not the type of person that draws trouble or whatever. If I could get a gun easily, would I get one? Dunno, maybe. A Colt 1911 and a SKS, perhaps, I really like those aesthetically. But I've never been to fond of shelling out so much money on things I don't really need. I'm fine with the laws in this country, but I don't think these laws would work for the US. It's too late for that, there are too many guns in circulation, and it goes against the basic american mindset.
Violent crime is but a symptom, and while it's made worse by proliferated guns, banning guns won't change a thing.
It's more important to fix the underlying causes of violent crime, but who knows how that could be accomplished? Can it even be accomplished if some causes are deeply ingrained in american culture and history? I don't know.
But banning guns is a drop on a hot stone in my opinion.
 
I think US is in a different situation now. These two big shootings have happened pretty quickly in a row, not sure if this is 'normal' even in US anymore. So the gun laws that we are talking about would be more like martial laws enforced by military, national guard or something like that rather than civilian cops.
 
I don't really see that happening. The sheer scope of the gun ban necessary to make a difference is basically impossible to pull off, and it would be the political death of anyone involved. Not even Trump could recover from something like that.
No, the recent shootings will have no effect, except for that maybe more people will get guns, concealed carry permits, and start carrying everyday.
 
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