Gun Control

Sounds more like they want to make sure everyone can still get bump fire stocks.
So another point that comes up with the recent massacre in Texas is that it was "stopped by a good guy with a gun". And that is true, to some degree, if the neighbour outside the church hadn't fired at the guy he might have gone on and killed more people, but at that point he already killed 26 or so people. So the armed law-abiding citizen didn't really help in this case, although that's down to people not going to church armed.
Should people carry in church? It's only logical if you adhere to the whole "only thing stopping a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" thing. But can bringing a weapon into a church be reconciled with christian faith?
 
Hassknecht said:
But banning guns is a drop on a hot stone in my opinion
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Which is why very few people want to ban guns.

Most gun control advocates just want tighter controls on guns so that it's more difficult to obtain them, but believe legitimate means can be taken if you genuinely need one.
 
Well just to put all the nobody carrying ever stopped a mass shooting, we unfortunately have had another in Texas. This time stopped by a normal person with a rifle.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/us/texas-church-shooting-resident-action/index.html

The shooter was dishonorable discharged from the military, and if I am not mistaken (maybe an American can correct if wrong) that carries the same weight as a federal crime and he should have been prevented from owning firearms.
 
Are there really that many other cases, still? And maybe it's because of those very same calling for everyone to be packing?
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use

A 2002 study looking at instances of DGU where convicted offenders were the defenders found that DGUs "are not likely to provide similar social benefits, implying that prevalence estimates may not simultaneously estimate social benefits."[38] Another study published the same year found that DGU is an effective deterrent against injury for some groups of people, but not others; notable groups for whom DGU did not provide benefits in this study included women, people living in rural areas, and those living in low-income homes.[39] A 2009 study reported that gun owners were more likely to be shot in an assault than were non-gun owners, and concluded that the chances of DGU being successful for residents of urban areas may be low.[40] Another 2009 study of NCVS data found that DGU was "most often effective at helping the victim" in the contexts in which it occurred, with an average of 92% of victims reporting that their DGU had been beneficial for them.[41] A 2013 National Research Council report found that studies looking at the effectiveness of different self-protective strategies had consistently found that victims who used guns defensively had lower injury rates than did victims who used other strategies.[42] A 2015 study by Solnick and Hemenway which analyzed NCVS data reported "little evidence that [DGU] is uniquely beneficial in reducing the likelihood of injury or property loss."[33]

Defensive gun use is not-common but effective.
 
Jogre said:
Which is why very few people want to ban guns.

Most gun control advocates just want tighter controls on guns so that it's more difficult to obtain them, but believe legitimate means can be taken if you genuinely need one.
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And there is nothing bad with that. Citizens should get access to weapons and yeah you can even get weapons here in Germany. But as Hass or Sua said, the difference is owning weapoins is a privilege in Germany where it is a right in the US. So you need a reason here, that goes further than just "It's my god given right!".
 
@Hassknecht @Crni Vuk What exactly are your gun laws in Germany? Here in the States, you often hear about guns being outright banned in Europe, but then I see people in Europe having guns and then I don't know what to believe.
 
Hass,

Civil legislations only work in a more or less stable societal situation. Many parts of US don't rise up to that level. Also these mass shootings, could be that we might hear an actual reason for them or at least a proper analysis of the causes. To me it's a unstable and sort of crazy society.

Buxbaum666 said:
You know something big happened when even the NRA supports "additional regulations", though. I mean they also call for allowing everyone to carry everywhere but hey.
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They were lying. They can do that because American lives don't matter.

https://www.axios.com/nra-opposes-two-bump-stock-bills-2496102253.html
 
Ben Soto said:
@Hassknecht @Crni Vuk What exactly are your gun laws in Germany? Here in the States, you often hear about guns being outright banned in Europe, but then I see people in Europe having guns and then I don't know what to believe.
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From what I know its pretty much only bolt actions and shotguns most places. Some places are more similar to the US but mixed with Canada like Czechoslovakia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation

and look at the Eurpoean countries.

MutantScalper said:
Hass,

Civil legislations only work in a more or less stable societal situation. Many parts of US don't rise up to that level. Also these mass shootings, could be that we might hear an actual reason for them or at least a proper analysis of the causes. To me it's a unstable and sort of crazy society.



They were lying. They can do that because American lives don't matter.

https://www.axios.com/nra-opposes-two-bump-stock-bills-2496102253.html
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Half Truth, they didn't support the way those laws were vaguely worded as it would ban lots of accessories that have nothing to do with bump stocks. The NRA has banned bump-stocks at there ranges.
 
GonZo_626 said:
Half Truth, they didn't support the way those laws were vaguely worded as it would ban lots of accessories that have nothing to do with bump stocks. The NRA has banned bump-stocks at there ranges.
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As a result bump-stocks will not be banned in US and will be used in a mass murder again in the near future.

NRA is making money off the deaths of Americans. So you'll have to pick a side.
 
Ben Soto said:
@Hassknecht @Crni Vuk What exactly are your gun laws in Germany? Here in the States, you often hear about guns being outright banned in Europe, but then I see people in Europe having guns and then I don't know what to believe.
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In Germany we distinguish between ownership licenses and carrying permits. An ownership license is not that hard to obtain, but not everyone can just get one just like that. You need to demonstrate a need for the gun you want to buy, for example hunting, sports shooting, stuff like that.
A carrying permit is even harder to obtain, few private citizens get those. "I need a gun to defend myself" almost never works unless you work as a security guard in certain situations.
I thought about getting a hunting permit last year, but honestly, it's just too much of a hassle for the limited benefit.
 
I think the bigger problem is the question of storage as we have pretty strict laws in Germany on how to store them properly. So that might be actually the bigger limitation.
 
Well, you can't even just go "Hey, I like guns, so I want to buy a handgun" and get a license. But storage is pretty strict, too. Can the inspectors just show up unannounced at your house to check or was that law rejected?
 
MutantScalper said:
Hass,

Civil legislations only work in a more or less stable societal situation. Many parts of US don't rise up to that level. Also these mass shootings, could be that we might hear an actual reason for them or at least a proper analysis of the causes. To me it's a unstable and sort of crazy society.



They were lying. They can do that because American lives don't matter.

https://www.axios.com/nra-opposes-two-bump-stock-bills-2496102253.html
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MutantScalper said:
As a result bump-stocks will not be banned in US and will be used in a mass murder again in the near future.

NRA is making money off the deaths of Americans. So you'll have to pick a side.
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Or come up with a better worded law that does no overly infringe on people. This is the same with gun-licensing in the states, the NRA worked against the last push for license as the wording of the law prevented a father from taking one of their children hunting as they could not "borrow" a rifle to their own children under their direct supervision. Wording of the laws are very important.
 
GonZo_626 said:
Or come up with a better worded law that does no overly infringe on people. This is the same with gun-licensing in the states, the NRA worked against the last push for license as the wording of the law prevented a father from taking one of their children hunting as they could not "borrow" a rifle to their own children under their direct supervision. Wording of the laws are very important.
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NRA will continue to bribe and intimitate your politicians, and in the case of shootings of politicians provides the tools with which to carry out said attacks. I'm glad there's nothing similar in Europe. I prefer actual democracy, not a situation where corporations can benefit from the deaths of people and bribe etc. politicians to keep doing it.
 
MutantScalper said:
NRA will continue to bribe and intimitate your politicians, and in the case of shootings of politicians provides the tools with which to carry out said attacks. I'm glad there's nothing similar in Europe. I prefer actual democracy, not a situation where corporations can benefit from the deaths of people and bribe etc. politicians to keep doing it.
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Not my politicians as I am not American, I have stated this to you before. Also the NRA is not a corporation but a civilian advocacy group and is a normal part of a democracy, and is there to make sure legal law abiding gun owners do not get trampled on by an over bearing or un-informed government. And I am sure there are similar groups in Europe.

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-gun-lobby-mobilizing-against-new-firearms-guns-weapons-rules/

Your from Finland right? Seems like they have a high gun-ownership and is very similar to my Country of Canada for gun control. It also appears that you have had a few mass-shootings as well, both with .22 rim fire handguns. It looks like your country did not ban handguns afterwards and it looks like I could own an AR-15 there as it would be under the classification of Self-Loading single shot rifle I would just need a 16" barrel. No magazine limits, suppressors are allowed and un-regulated, and no firearms accessories are banned. Hmmm seems like I may even be able to own a bump-stock there.
 
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Please. The NRA is the long arm of the weapon industry, that much is pretty clear it's evident from the whole history of the NRA. Yes, it isn't a corporation but they receive a lot of money and support by them. The NRA actually once even started as a group to advocate gun safety and regulations, but it has changed a lot since then.

I am not saying every member is a bad person or that ALL of the NRA organisations are just about that, but definetly their larger structures.

Hassknecht said:
Well, you can't even just go "Hey, I like guns, so I want to buy a handgun" and get a license. But storage is pretty strict, too. Can the inspectors just show up unannounced at your house to check or was that law rejected?
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They can.

Neben der Vorlage von Beweisen bei der zuständigen Behörde kann es auch zu einer unangemeldeten Kontrolle der Waffenaufbewahrung beim Besitzer kommen. Auch dies ist gesetzlich festgelegt. Das WaffG in § 36 Absatz 3 bestimmt Folgendes bezüglich des Nachweises und der Kontrollen:

Wer erlaubnispflichtige Schusswaffen, Munition oder verbotene Waffen besitzt oder die Erteilung einer Erlaubnis zum Besitz beantragt hat, hat der zuständigen Behörde die zur sicheren Aufbewahrung getroffenen oder vorgesehenen Maßnahmen nachzuweisen. Besitzer von erlaubnispflichtigen Schusswaffen, Munition oder verbotenen Waffen haben außerdem der Behörde zur Überprüfung der Pflichten aus den Absätzen 1 und 2 Zutritt zu den Räumen zu gestatten, in denen die Waffen und die Munition aufbewahrt werden. […]​

https://www.bussgeldkatalog.net/waffengesetz/waffenaufbewahrung/
 
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