Gun "nut" they are not.

Something else entirely that pisses me off to no end is weapons that break down after 50-100 shots. Before fixing different calibers and ammo/weapon availability weapons should be made to not degrade at all. You should be able to put a good ten thousand rounds through a weapon without any wear whatsoever- the only thing you would have to worry about is maintenance.

Instead of fixing weapons seemingly made out of toothpaste, have regular maintenance prevent jamming and irregular operation.
 
Ashmo said:
Also, one problem Fallout 1+2 had was that fleeing NPCs would initiate combat mode, angering the player and making their own death even more inevitable. If you're not going to attack, don't initiate combat -- just run. And don't run over the exit grid if you're not going to exit -- it's just unfair to the player.
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Especially annoying for melee/unarmed specialists.

The guns have low "endurance"(couldn't find a better word) because most of them are really old, but that is kind of a bad excuse for ridiculous wearing out. My precious T-51b is almost at 70% of condition and I've only had it for 5 ****ing days. That means only 43 "DR"(ridiculous stat, has the same resistance for bombs and for radroaches and no damage threshold), and A3-21s plasma rifle is almost at half condition. I also got "eugene" , half "condition" right when received. I could talk more about my super sledge and sniper, but no, here is my main point. NO ONE CAN REPAIR TO 100% CONDITION, except if YOU are a repair specialist at 100 repair skill and happen to find Shitloads of loot. Max trader repair skill is 75, and he isn't fixed at a location. I mean, i have 4000 caps but the max 'DR' i can't get from my T-51b armor after is worn is 45.
 
Temoid said:
Something else entirely that pisses me off to no end is weapons that break down after 50-100 shots. Before fixing different calibers and ammo/weapon availability weapons should be made to not degrade at all. You should be able to put a good ten thousand rounds through a weapon without any wear whatsoever- the only thing you would have to worry about is maintenance.

Instead of fixing weapons seemingly made out of toothpaste, have regular maintenance prevent jamming and irregular operation.
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Exactly. If they want to have accuracy & reliability (but not damage) degrade slightly over time, fine that's cool (and believable enough for a condensed game timespan). They can also have weapon malfunction jams/ dud rounds randomly occur. Fallout 3 currently implements gun breakage due to targeted shots which I am positively amazed that they incorporated. Wow they got something right. That should be the only way weapons get broken either hit by a bullet(s) or by grenade/explosions/hit by a hard object etc.

Man this game needs a MASSIVE amount of work and from just about every aspect (except graphics). *sigh* I'm hoping a bunch of talented passionate modders can each contribute their part and then combine the best mods together to transform this game into something it should be.
 
Danilh said:
The guns have low "endurance"(couldn't find a better word) because most of them are really old, but that is kind of a bad excuse for ridiculous wearing out..
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Don't worry man that is not only a 'bad' excuse but an outright ludicrous one. A gun can conceivably be in terrible condition from neglect etc BUT once it is fixed it is NOT going to break any time soon unless you hit it with a sledge hammer/smash it on a rock/ drop an anvil on it etc. It's just a dumb game gimmick IMO because they couldn't think of a more intelligent way to implement checks & balances on firearms in game.

Oh yeah sorry if I forgot but I've said this so many times to various chuckleheads with their YT vids but I will say here to solidify: Bullets don't care about "stats" (unless it pertains to the stats of what they are impacting). A gun can either fire a bullet or it cannot. A neglected poorly maintained weapon will inflict for all intents and purposes IRL and in a game the same damage as a factory fresh one providing it can still fire. So once again beths logic misses the boat (not that most F3 players would notice).
 
NOT going to break any time soon unless you hit it with a sledge hammer...
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Thats exactly what i did to a super mutant's assault rifle, and he only picked it up and kept firing XD
 
I just thought I'd chime in with some info on fire-arms in general, in response to the points in the OP.
Firstly I'm no fan of the guns in FO3, they could use allot of work and be made much more realistic. However firing the same bullet (same caliber is too general, compare a .22 short to a .22 magnum for example) out of different guns will give very different results.

Barrel length is the most important factor in bullet muzzel velocity after the amount of propellant. As long as the bullet is in the barrel it is accelerating (up to a point ofcourse, where the propellant expends all its energy but that is usually longer that any resonable barrel length). Just adding a few "s onto a barrel can add hundreds of FPS to the muzzel velocity.
A good way to think about it is:
Caliber/Shape: How big is the projectile?
Propellant: How much is it being pushed?
Barrel lenght: How long is it being pushed?

Ofcourse then you run into how much "damage" would it do in a computer game HP sense? A very fast bullet might pass right through an unarmoured target and only leave a little hole. Throw in expanding ammo and different types of armor and it gets real complex.
 
Flanker15 said:
However firing the same bullet (same caliber is too general, compare a .22 short to a .22 magnum for example) out of different guns will give very different results.

Barrel length is the most important factor in bullet muzzel velocity after the amount of propellant. As long as the bullet is in the barrel it is accelerating (up to a point ofcourse, where the propellant expends all its energy but that is usually longer that any resonable barrel length). Just adding a few "s onto a barrel can add hundreds of FPS to the muzzel velocity.
A good way to think about it is:
Caliber/Shape: How big is the projectile?
Propellant: How much is it being pushed?
Barrel lenght: How long is it being pushed?

Ofcourse then you run into how much "damage" would it do in a computer game HP sense? A very fast bullet might pass right through an unarmoured target and only leave a little hole. Throw in expanding ammo and different types of armor and it gets real complex.
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Oh I know that but in fallout 3 the rifles use pistol ammo (at least according to the wiki) I just got the game today finally so I haven't checked first hand. A good illustration is a .22 pistol round which is .22 cal rounded nose bullet and a short case (gunpowder charge). Not very powerful. Then a .223 assault rifle round which is the same essential diameter as a .22 but the bullet is much longer + pointed + has a massive long case providing enormous power. One can go in a 22 cal handgun and the other goes in an assault rifle, MASSIVE difference in destructive power. I''m going to try to mod the weapons if I can figure out how to but that's a big "if" since I really don't know just how hard it will be. Also I'd like to remove the tracers as well.
 
Holocausto said:
What's this another rant against bethesda? Yes. I just have fundamental problems with a game so fundamental flawed such as in the weapons dept in this case. Before I get to it I understand the Fallout universe is sci fi but since it still has items in it which are taken from RL and it's on Earth with all the laws of physics and all that stuff I thought I'd point out something that drives me nuts. Looky



#1 any gun that fires the exact same ammo should do the same damage (give or take a tiny insignificant difference to account for barrel length which can marginally affect velocity). One exception is silenced weapons do indeed reduce velocity slightly and thus you can stretch the #s to say silenced weapons do slightly less damage than regular counterparts.

#2 The .32 cal pistol should be the weakest pistol in the game.

#3 guns don't do more damage by giving them a different name ('scoped 44 mag to blackhawk' for example) Why do I even need to explain something so simple? It's sad really.

I could go on to the rifles & shotguns as they provide even more absurd laughs. Gimme a break.
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In regards to #1: In Fallout 1, it was stated that the Sniper Rifle you use was reworked to use 223's instead of 308's because 223's are more common in that area. In other words (as previously stated in this thread), it's a gameplay convention...but not one used in Fallout 3 alone.

In regards to #2: Actually, I'm almost certain that the .32 is the weakest pistol in the game. Magnificently so.

In regards to #3: Again, this is just a classic RPG convention. Would you prefer no unique weapons at all? Let's just say the unique weapons are better maintained than their more common cousins, or perhaps they were customized for optimal performance.
 
Shattering Fast said:
....

In regards to #3: Again, this is just a classic RPG convention. Would you prefer no unique weapons at all?....
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It worked pretty good in Fallout 1,2 and Tactics.


Shattering Fast said:
... Let's just say the unique weapons are better maintained than their more common cousins, or perhaps they were customized for optimal performance.
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How old is Lincoln's Repeater? How can it be maintained if it is a unique item?? You can only maintain stuff if you have additional copies, at least that is how it works in Fallout 3.
 
How old is Lincoln's Repeater? How can it be maintained if it is a unique item?? You can only maintain stuff if you have additional copies, at least that is how it works in Fallout 3.
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Unique items can be repaired with their non-unique equivalents.
 
'Unique' weapons could at least be different, even a minimum detail as the Red Ryder LE BB Gun that has a little symbol on it, but they're identical.
 
Ausir said:
Weapons using the same ammo did different damage in previous Fallouts as well. It's a gameplay convention, doesn't have to be entirely realistic.
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Er, what? Except for the energy weapons, similar weapons did similar damage in F2. See 10 mil pistol, pipe rifle, and SMG
 
Similar, yes, but not always identical.

See Shotgun, Combat Shotgun, Pancor Jackhammer.
 
It would be nice to have an extended amount of calibers in the game. As previously said, I'd like to feel more like conserving the ammunition. I have like loads of ammo, and I never run out of them. I'm a melee maniac and I deathclaw my enemies, but when I feel like shooting, my weapon's more like to break than run out of ammos. Just how fast can weapons break? I'm no gun nut, but I like shooting, and the guns I've used won't just degrade to shit after few good bursts on super muties backside of the neck.

Fallout 3 does not fill the urge of post-apocalyptic survival game. But it does satisfy some psychotic ones.
 
Dr_Thrax said:
It would be nice to have an extended amount of calibers in the game. As previously said, I'd like to feel more like conserving the ammunition. I have like loads of ammo, and I never run out of them. I'm a melee maniac and I deathclaw my enemies, but when I feel like shooting, my weapon's more like to break than run out of ammos. Just how fast can weapons break? I'm no gun nut, but I like shooting, and the guns I've used won't just degrade to shit after few good bursts on super muties backside of the neck.

Fallout 3 does not fill the urge of post-apocalyptic survival game. But it does satisfy some psychotic ones.
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I have figured out how to mod various weapons. I can't change out the ammo because that will break NPCs and they will have their gun with the wrong ammo and will resort to melee (funny). So I will be keeping the ammo the same but tweaking the guns stats based on what RL gun they represent (we'll have to pretend the ammo is not wrong, no easy workaround).

I've already modified the assault rifles to reflect their RL +s & -s so actually if you follow reality things are self balancing more often than not. It's amazing how it works out that way but it does (LOOKING AT YOU BETHESDA!!!!) I just got the game so I need to play more and as I come across new weapons I am testing various parameters to make sure they are respectable of RL and how many bullets I think it would actually take to down certain foes with various weapons. Unfortunately some foes (the first super mutants I've come across) are WAY WAY too weak and will need to be buffed which I will eventually try to get to (or check other mods).

Also like to redo the melee weapons later since many are underpowered. So give me some time (couple weeks) and hopefully I'll have most the weapons tweaked to simulate RL yet still work in a game environment. My experiences with tinkering so far have been awesome as enemies will get the same modded weapons as you so a raider with an assault rifle could end you real quick if you don't do it to him first. It really adds to the tactical combat and makes it feel much more like a "real" apocalypse where you do NOT want to get shot.

There won't be any more RAMBOing up the middle and zero use of RL tactics. You WILL need to take cover and exchange fire with a purpose and minimal exposure and get ruthless because they will not be playing anymore (sorry console kiddies) lol. Anyway stay tuned....... get ready.

Oh BTW I thoroughly recommend this mod:

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=60
 
I spent some time adjusting guns today and wasn't happy with the results, Holocausto. I'm looking forward to your work.
 
Ausir said:
How old is Lincoln's Repeater? How can it be maintained if it is a unique item?? You can only maintain stuff if you have additional copies, at least that is how it works in Fallout 3.
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Unique items can be repaired with their non-unique equivalents.
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Assuming they have mundane equivilants, which the Repeater does not. Still, though...I pity the fool who would allow the existance of this one weapon cast a pall upon their entire F3 experience. Who knows? Let's imagine the gun was preserved in a vacuum-tight enclosure for the past 199 years. SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF.
 
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