Trithne
Still Mildly Glowing
You say suspension of disbelief without considering that disbelief can only be suspended as long as the universe is internally consistent and verisimilitude is maintained.
Gun "nut" they are not.
- Thread starter Holocausto
- Start date
Still Mildly Glowing
Shattering Fast
First time out of the vault
Disbelief is something to be suspended on an individual basis - it's your game, and your experience. Where I see the resemblance of truth, others may not. Take my vacuum containment theory, for example...is it not possible that---Trithne said:
Bleh, nevermind. I've got nothing left to say that will make you feel any better about the weapons in this game. Enjoy your non-enjoyment.
Slaughter Manslaught
Vault Senior Citizen
About the guns in Fallout 3 - Why the Minigun is so useless? When a Super Mutant Brute hits me with a storm of bullets, it doesn't feel like I was hit by a storm of continuous 5mm death in my entire body, but it feels like I was attacked by a BB Gatling. And why are those laser rifles so lousy?
In the original games, a minigun burst pretty much meant instant death until you got some combat armor and a lot of HP. Then it was Death in Two-Turns. Power Armor was the only thing that really allowed you to survive that kind of attack, and rightly so. In the original games, a laser rifle attack hurt A LOT, except if you had Metal Armor/Tesla/Power Armor.
And why a futuristic sniper rifle in perfect repair condition is somehow WORSE than Lincoln's fucking half-a-milenium-olde Repeater?! WHY?!
In the original games, a minigun burst pretty much meant instant death until you got some combat armor and a lot of HP. Then it was Death in Two-Turns. Power Armor was the only thing that really allowed you to survive that kind of attack, and rightly so. In the original games, a laser rifle attack hurt A LOT, except if you had Metal Armor/Tesla/Power Armor.
And why a futuristic sniper rifle in perfect repair condition is somehow WORSE than Lincoln's fucking half-a-milenium-olde Repeater?! WHY?!
DexterMorgan
A Smooth-Skin
Shattering Fast said:
Hunting rifle
Shattering Fast said:
LARPing.
Slaughter Manslaught said:
Thank heavens minigun hurts less than mosquito, I wonder how many times I would've died by now if it was the real thing
My quality settings suck and that means I'm going to get the burst on my face first, then I need couple of seconds to figure out where the burst is coming from.
Shattering Fast said:
It'd fall apart when opened. Air shock.
You: Postulate a rediculous theory.Shattering Fast said:
Someone else: That's silly.
You: Not at all. For you see...well, nevermind you don't like the game anyways.
Sorry, but that's not how it works.
First off the gun would have to have been preserved in a non-vacuum chamber for some 100 years at least. Then it would've been in the chamber for at least 330 years or so. And where does all the power for this come from?
Nevermind the idea that Lincoln's rifle would never survive removal from the chamber, it would never ever survive a round passing through it. It would probably harm the user more than anyone else.
I'm willing to suspend disbelief, but that doesn't mean I turn away from blatantly preposterous things.
Shattering Fast
First time out of the vault
Such as the Deathclaw, Centuar, or Ghoul? I don't know - it seems to me as though some people just draw a line in the sand when it comes to accepting the outwardly preposterous that best suits their position in any given debate. Not that I'm pointing fingers, but I see alot of Fallout 3 detractors pointing out minor inconsistancies in a single game, which happens to be part of a larger game world (the Fallout universe in general) which is filled with the scientifically unbelievale.M-26-7 said:
Now, in the world of Fallout, some scientific inconsistancies are overlooked to better realize the "raygun gothic" feel of the game...and the games are made better for it. I don't know about you, but I feel a certain sense of poetic justice in downing plasma-packing Enclave agents with a centuries-old weapon. Realistic? Hell no, but alot of the Fallout universe isn't, and that's okay. It's cool, for lack of a better term.
Trithne
Still Mildly Glowing
Deathclaw, Centaurs, and Ghouls are all internally consistent. Mutation is an important part of the Fallout canon, and the way they come into being is rational and makes sense when compared to other parts of the setting.
Many things in FO3 are not internally consistent. To paraphrase Todd, "Fusion-powered cars shouldn't really explode, but I don't care"
Many things in FO3 are not internally consistent. To paraphrase Todd, "Fusion-powered cars shouldn't really explode, but I don't care"
Shattering Fast
First time out of the vault
Who decides what is and isn't consistent?Trithne said:
I don't know - I'm just saying that, in a world where a single water chip can (in theory) continue to produce water for an entire Vault for an indefinite amount of time, or where dormant super-computers can remain more or less functional after years and years of neglect, I find it quite easy to imagine that the inhabitants of that world developed procedures to preserve their legacy far into the future.
Trithne
Still Mildly Glowing
It doesn't produce water. It's a control component for a water purification system. And the only computer I can think of left neglected yet remaining functional was the one in the West-Tek facility which was close to a closed environment at that floor.
Internally consistent is easily determined. If something contradicts something else in the world, then it's lacking in internal consistency. On the other hand, once you know how mutation and FEV works in the Fallout world, all the freakish creatures make sense, and are consistent with each other.
Internally consistent is easily determined. If something contradicts something else in the world, then it's lacking in internal consistency. On the other hand, once you know how mutation and FEV works in the Fallout world, all the freakish creatures make sense, and are consistent with each other.
Shattering Fast
First time out of the vault
Trithne said:
Do you truly know how the closed environment in the West-Tek facility worked? Do you think such technology could have been implemented elsewhere, to the same effect? That, perhaps, such technology suddenly malfunctioned in DC and led to the discovery of an apparenly discarded Repeater, or Magna Carta, or Declaration of Independence?
Holocausto
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Well I'm only speaking for myself here in what I like from a game. If you've ever played STALKER that is a good (though far from perfect) example of how I personally like "RPG" to be combined with a FPP game. The player characters 'level' is determined largely by what gear he possess and the same with foes. That's really all I ask is just a simple RESPECT for 2 fundamental truths weapons & armor. Those 2 I would love to be be consistent for ex NPC at level "8" isn't magically UBER just because some stats says so & he has an extra tire/spikes on his "costume" but because he has a superior weapon and tough as nails armor which visually looks the part as well.Shattering Fast said:
All the other stuff not relating directly to those 2 things can fall under the 'players character' or "Role" Playing. Attitude, endurance etc etc that's fine. I am constantly perplexed why do RPG & FPS have to be mutually exclusive? They don't IMO IF you do it right but few want or are capable it seems of thinking outside the ingrained "RPG" rulebook to think of anything better and MORE REAL. Instead it's just the same ol tired & ludicrous method of magical "leveling" = character "get" more powerful (including their guns). I want the best of both worlds..is that asking to much? Apparently....
Trithne
Still Mildly Glowing
The difference is that in STALKER your character's skill is still tied to the player's skill. In an RPG, that should not be the case. The point behind the RPG is that someone who isn't good at reflex-based gaming could play a character who has the skills they don't. Same for things like lockpicking and hacking, which in FO3 are determined entirely by player skill at the minigame, not the character's Lockpicking skill.
Because the repeating rifle it's based off of used a .44 caliber round.
Going to the Museum pays off every now and then.
Going to the Museum pays off every now and then.
Was I the only person to find the idea that ammo weighs nothing a bit disturbing. Also based on the speed at which I am reloading they are all in magazines, which adds even more weight.
I just put 200 rounds of 5.56 with 7 magazines on the bathroom scale to make sure I wasn't too far off in making some quick estimates(yes I know I should have put 210 rounds). It came up 7lbs. (~3.1kgs).
keeping in mind that 5.56 rounds are about the lightest ammo you will find barring the BBs, we can use it as a conservative estimate on how much things are thrown off.
I was walking around in game carrying over 4k 5.56 rounds alone, which would be at least 140lbs(63kgs). Then add all the other types of ammo, missiles, mini-nukes, various laser power cells, and you have one super overloaded character. I doubt even a super mutant would be able to carry everything.
I just put 200 rounds of 5.56 with 7 magazines on the bathroom scale to make sure I wasn't too far off in making some quick estimates(yes I know I should have put 210 rounds). It came up 7lbs. (~3.1kgs).
keeping in mind that 5.56 rounds are about the lightest ammo you will find barring the BBs, we can use it as a conservative estimate on how much things are thrown off.
I was walking around in game carrying over 4k 5.56 rounds alone, which would be at least 140lbs(63kgs). Then add all the other types of ammo, missiles, mini-nukes, various laser power cells, and you have one super overloaded character. I doubt even a super mutant would be able to carry everything.
Holocausto
It Wandered In From the Wastes
No.pk1 said:
Yeah it's really dumb, but that's what I expect from bethesda. They seem to like the 'infinite bag of holding' concept on many items. The game needs a total work over of the weapons & ammo and it could possibly be a pretty cool realism/post apoc survival "simulator". As it is now though it barely scratches the surface of being a simulator in the small fact that they decided to give weapons at least some weight (though not entirely accurate of course) but hey at least they didn't make them weightless like so many other things....pk1 said:
This brings me to my final point: I think it's funny how many gamers are afraid of a serious challenge. I think it's a mistake to think that if something is difficult it is not "fun". Sure maybe at first if you are unaccustomed it isn't fun but IF you can adapt and learn/use new (and more RL) tactics/game strategies then the "fun" is immense IMO and the game is actually made deeper. Much more so than any artificial "gamey" balance scheme. I come from tactical realism games such as Red Orchestra and Project Reality so I'm accustomed to more realism oriented FPSs. But hey, whatever....some gamers just hate anything "hard" or where they have to use their brain as much as their trigger finger.
T
TorontoReign
Guest
^^^^ While I agree that ammo weighing nothing is a bit stupid, not everyone wants Fallout to be a Post-Apocalyptic/survival simulator. It sounds like a cool idea though.
I don't think it would bother people that the game would be hard though. I think it boils down to people not liking "simulation" games as much. Most people want to escape from reality.
There are lots of hard ass games out there that are very challenging. Ninja Gaiden being one example.
I don't think it would bother people that the game would be hard though. I think it boils down to people not liking "simulation" games as much. Most people want to escape from reality.
There are lots of hard ass games out there that are very challenging. Ninja Gaiden being one example.
Holocausto
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I hear you in all your points. I am just a sim minded gamer.TorontRayne said: